Subterfuge; Post revision cards

Discussion in 'Home Made Cards' started by FoundationOfRancor, Jun 12, 2001.

  1. Thallid Ice Cream Man 21sT CeNTuRy sChIZoId MaN

    Talisman of Assertion: I decided to remove the cantrip ability, to prevent the kind of abuse you were talking about. However, I felt that I could safely price it at 0 as a result of that, because unless its ability is used and can be used, it just sits there.

    There is in fact no card called Dense Canopy (as far as my searches indicated). There is a Dense Foliage, but no Dense Canopy. If I find a better name, though, I will change it.
    But I did change the price to GG - the only times when this card would be useful (most likely) are in Limited, and GG is probably a fair price for such an effect (which pretty much only helps on attacking anyway).

    4-color hosers: That could work, but they would have to be a lot more powerful than the card you just suggested. That's basically just an instant Boil + a few damage for BRGW instead of 3R.
    This could be the blue-hoser, for instance:

    Whenever a player plays a blue spell, destroy target island.
    Blue spells cost 3 more to play.
    Spells that target ~ while it is on the stack cost UU more.

    Remember, these cards only work 1/5 of the time.
  2. FoundationOfRancor The Gunslinger

    Your right about the power-level of the four color hoser's Thallid; they should be really strong. Heres something I want to submit:

    Destroy all Islands
    Evaporate cannot be countered.

    Do you think thats too weak or to strong? I really cant tell.

    The tailsman looks fine, and really it would be ok at 1cc/Cantrip, just people would never use it for what it was intended to do. Either version seems balanced to me.

    I could have sworn that Dense Canopy was a 2G enchantment that made all your creatures untargetable, but my magic-memory is fading. Anywayy, I agree with what you thought.
  3. FoundationOfRancor The Gunslinger

    Mana Drill
    Destroy target land. Gain 1 life for each type of mana that land could produce.

    Return target creature to owners hand. For each color that creature has, you may draw a card.

    Speaker (Formerly Whoo)
    When ~this~ comes into play, choose a creature.
    ~This~ deals damage equal to the chosen creatures power to each creature in play.

    Block Out
    Target player discards his or her hand.

    Caseys Mind (Formerly Blah)
    Draw a card for each card in your hand.

    Sea Creature Land (Formerly WhooII)
    ~This~ comes into play tapped.
    T: Add U to your mana pool.
    2U, discard ~this~ from your hand: Put a colorless 2/2 merfolk token into play.

    Soul Sucker
    Creature -Vampire
    When ~this~ comes into play, each player loses 1 life. Then put two +1+1 counters on ~this~ for each life lost.

    Mind Grinder
    Whenever a land comes into play, put the top card of each players library into his or her graveyard.

    A whole lotta Assasins (Formerly Blah)
    Whenever a creature becomes tapped, destroy it at the end of turn.

    Cloud of Angels
    Creature -Angels
    Cloud of Angels has toughness each equal to the number of white mana symbols on permanents you control.

    Loops (formerly Yo)
    Whenever ~this~ is played, return it to your hand. Target creature gets +1+1 untill end of turn. Add colorless mana equal to that creatures converted mana cost to your mana pool.

    Necromancer's Reach
    1R: Creatures you control have haste untill end of turn.
    B: Remove a creature card in your graveyard from the game: Put a 1/1 black zombie token into play under your control.
  4. FoundationOfRancor The Gunslinger

    Circle Mages (Formerly Aggresive Mages)
    Creature -Mage
    1, Tap, skip your next Draw Phase: Draw a card.

    Blah Caretaker
    Creature -Minion
    Whenever you are dealt damage by a source you do not control, if this is in your graveyard, return it to play under your control.

    Glass Gnomes
    Artifact Creature -Gnome
    Sacrifice Glass Gnomes: Gain 2 life.
    Whenever you are dealt damage by a source you do not control, if Glass Gnomes is in your graveyard, return it to play under your control.

    Karma Slinger (Formerly More Blah!)
    1: Target player gains 1 life. Any player may play this ability.
    1: Target player loses 1 life. Any player may play this ability.

    Creature -Dont care
    During you upkeep, tap three untapped lands you control. If you dont, tap ~this~ and put a -1/-1 counter on it.

    -This may have to be a 3/4.

    Imbued Stones
    Imbued Stones comes into play with 3 Mark counters on it.
    4W, Remove a Mark counter from Imbued Stones: Put all basic lands from all graveyards into play under their owners’ control, untapped.
    2GG, Remove a Mark counter from Imbued Stones: Search through your library for a land card and put it into play under your control, tapped.

    -Note that this can search for Non-basic land.

    Burnt Nostalgia (Formerly Blah)
    As an additional cost to play ~this~, discard your hand.
    For each land that was discarded in this way, you may deal 2 damage to target creature or player.

    Steel Weldings
    Enchant Creature
    Steel Weldings may only be played on an artifact creature.
    Enchanted creature gets +4/+4
    Creatures blocked by or blocking Enchanted Creature cannot regenerate this turn.

    Embrace of the Dead
    Enchant Creature
    Embrace of the Dead cannot be the target of green or white spells or abilties.
    Enchanted Creature gains +2+1 and "Whenever a creature goes to your graveyard, put that creature on top of your library."

    Solidyfing Myths
    Enchantments and Artifacts cannot be the target of white spells.
  5. Thallid Ice Cream Man 21sT CeNTuRy sChIZoId MaN

    Ok, here goes.

    Dense Canopy: Your memory isn't that bad; the card you were thinking of is Dense Foliage, which is extremely close to Dense Canopy if you think about it.

    Evaporate is ok the way it is.
    Think about it. You cast something, they FoF, searching for a counterspell. You Evaporate in response. Hee hee hee!
    Of course, we have to work long and hard to create potent hosers of the other cards.
    This is so good because most blue decks desperately need lands, and deal with threats by countering.
    If the other hosers aren't as good, blue will have a problem.

    Mana Drill/Bob: OK.
    Whoo!: Looks fine, although I'm not sure about it being white.
    Block Out: This is often better than Mind Twist, and even when it's not, it's certainly a game changing effect. If we do keep it, at least make it a SORCERY.
    Blah is good.
    Whoo II!'s ability should probably cost at least part blue, maybe 2U or something.
    Soul Sucker: 5B for a 5/5 flying with a nice CIP ability is pretty good in a duel these days, but this sucker* gets scary in multiplayer... I suggest you make it 0/1 for base power and toughness.
    Mind Grinder and Blah are OK.
    Life Chain is a little cheap for this sort of effect. There is a card like this, called Ashen Powder, but it costs 2BB and it's a sorcery. This would probably have to cost at least 2WW.
    Cloud of Angels: I would find it strange to see 16/16 Angels in play on turn 7 or something with a bunch of plains and White Knights, or a gigantic Angel flying around the countryside. Maybe it should just be 4/* instead. If it is, then it can definitely cost 4W. If not, though, making it cost 4WW won't help balance it much (because it gets the power and toughness boost from the extra W). And how do those huge mana symbols on the recent basic lands factor in?
    yo: What do you mean by "successfully cast"? Under 6E rules, a spell that would earlier have been said to be "successfully cast" is now said to have been played. But I assume you don't want that to trigger whenever it's played. You mean resolved, right? (at which point, the player will have the mana and it is taken off the stack) In any case, I don't exactly see the point of this card. Is it to be used against anything but blue? Is it supposed to be some sort of mana engine? That's all it really is.
    Necromancer's Reach: The red ability should probably cost 1R. Other than that, this card is great!

    Aggressive Mages should probably have a different name, because a 1/2 creature isn't all that aggressive. But its flavor text could be something like "These mages are living proof of the fact that while exceedingly difficult, it is possible to combine subtlety and aggression."
    Blah Caretaker or Glass Gnomes/Goblin Bombardment/Angelic Chorus gives you infinite life. Make them both say "Whenever you are dealt damage by a source you do not control,..."
    More Blah is one of those rare cards that seems outrageously powerful, but is in fact pretty balanced, and manages to create interesting situations. I like it! It should probably cost 3 or 4, though, just to give your opponent a tiny head start (because you're going to be abusing it soon, right?) Also, the intervals should be a little smaller, just so some kid with an elf deck doesn't kill his tapped out opponent on turn 4. Make it give or take 1 life instead of 2.
    Drainer should be 4/4. (Remember, Trained Armodon was 1GG for 3/3 with no abilities.)
    Imbued Stones's second ability should cost 2GG.
    Blah is interesting... Sort of like a super Land's Edge.
    Footholds is so amazingly broken with Fires in play... It's like a red Moat, but possibly better.
    Steel Weldings, Embrace of the Dead, and Solidifying Myths are fine.

    I have made some cards of my own since my last post.... two to be exact.

    Frost Elephant
    Creature - Elephant
    When Frost Elephant comes into play, put three +1/+0 counters on it.
    Frost Elephant doesn't untap during your untap step.
    Remove a +1/+0 counter from Frost Elephant: Untap Frost Elephant.

    - I know this looks bad, but really it isn't. If you just cast it and use it as a blocker, it can withstand Blastoderm. You can also attack with it and untap it later on your turn to use it as a blocker (albeit a 2/6 blocker).

    Artifact Creature
    When Magnephore comes into play, put three +1/+1 counters on it.
    At the beginning of your upkeep, remove a +1/+1 counter from Magnephore.
    Permanents with converted mana costs equal to the number of +1/+1 counters on Magnephore don't untap during their controller's untap steps.

    * Pun intended.
  6. FoundationOfRancor The Gunslinger

    Block Out
    Your absolutely right, it should be a Sorcery.

    Whoo II!
    2U seems fine.

    Soul Sucker
    Ok, 0/1 it is. Do you think the mana cost is too easy?

    Life Chain
    Whoa, Life Chain *is* Ashen Powder...I didnt even relize that...Cut it, I say.

    Cloud Of Angels
    Your right, it shouldnt be */*. 4/* is fine...and it should be changed to "...non-land permanents you control." I want to see this ability explored more.

    Well, I wanted it worded so whenever its not countered, it goes back to your hand. I thought I did it right, but I guess I was wrong. I was thinking about making it go like this:
    yo Beta
    Whenever ~this~ is played, return it to your hand. [At end of turn?]
    Target creature gets +1+1 untill end of turn. Add colorless mana equal to that creatures converted mana cost to your mana pool.

    Necromancer's Reach
    1R is cool!

    Aggresive Mages
    Haha, if you havent noticed, Im not that good with names!

    Whenever you are dealt damage by a source you do not control,..."

    More Blah!
    Thanks for the compliments, I was really proud of this one:)
    I wanna find a good name for it, do you have any ideas?
    3cc looks ok, and increments in 1 are good.

    4/4 it is. Maybe this should be GGG and a 5/5?

    [n]Imbued Stones [/n]
    2GG, done.

    It is a bit like Raths Edge, but it loses alot because its colored. My thinking; a good way to get rid of excess land in the later-game.

    Your right...this isnt that interesting a card anyway, cut.

    Frost Elephant
    Your right; this does seem really bad at the first look. But its not. Its good utility. I wonder how it would be at 2U or 1UU, but that may push it over the top.

    I really like this card! Its interesting. I think if its going to be a control deck staple (Which seems very promising to me), it should cost 5 and have four +1+1's. Then again, at 5 mana, it may be too costly. Maybe 4cc/3 counters is a good idea.....umm...
  7. FoundationOfRancor The Gunslinger

    Quick Slaughter
    Destroy all creatures you do not control. At the end of turn, each other player gains 2 life for each creature destroyed this way.

    Or, another version of Quick Slaugher:

    Quick Slaughter Beta
    Destroy all creatures you do not control. At the end of turn, each player draws a card for each creature destroyed in this manner.

    Memory Syphon
    Return all cards from your graveyard to your hand. Gain 2 life for each card returned in this manner.

    Phantom Knight
    Creature -Knight
    If a land was destroyed this turn, you may discard two cards in your hand to play Phantom Knight without paying its mana cost.
    Protection from Red.

    Permanents in play cannot be the target of white spells or abilties.
    2, Sacrifice a non-white enchantment: Search your library for a card and reveal it to all players. Then, put that card on top of your library. Shuffle your library afterwards.

    Thallid, what do you think? Im glad you like Evaporate btw:)
  8. FoundationOfRancor The Gunslinger

    Creature -Legend?
    2,Tap: Target oppenent looks through your library and chooses a card. Put that card in your hand, then shuffle your library.

    -Maybe this should be blue?

    Wall Sentry
    Creature -Solider Elf
    T: Wall Sentry deals 1 damage to each attacking creature.

    Blah Actor
    Creature -Cleric
    Whenever a spell is played that effects all creatures in play, remove ~this~ from the game.
    1: Return ~this~ to play under your control.

    Cowardly Lion
    Creature -Lion
    Whenever an oppenent plays a spell, return Cowardly Lion to owners hand. You may pay 1U to prevent this effect.

    Razing Zombie (?)
    Creature -Zombie
    If ~this~ and another creature leave play during the same turn, you may have your oppenent lose 7 life.

    Destroy target land. The controller of that land may put a black-green 1/1 Saproling-Zombie token into play under their control.

    -Is the "Into play under their control" actualy needed?

    Mana Funnel (?)
    You can sacrifice four lands and a creature instead of paying Mana Funnel 's mana cost.
    Put all lands on top of their owners libraries.

    -Maybe 3GGG?

    Creature -Vampie
    Whenever ~this~ would deal lethal damage to a creature, put a Power counter on it.
    2BR, Tap: ~this~ deals 1 damage to target creature or player for each Power counter on it.

    Molten Boulder
    Molten Boulder deals 4 damage to target player.

    Card name?
    Mana costs?
    Card type?
    Search through target oppenents library for a card, and reveal it to all players. Then put that card in your hand and shuffle that players library.

    Thats all for now....Im going to have the internet untill monday evening, so I hope I can think of alot of cards by then.
  9. Thallid Ice Cream Man 21sT CeNTuRy sChIZoId MaN

    Well, yesterday I found out that the name Evaporate has already been taken by a red card from Alliances, so we're going to need to think of another name...
    Quick Slaughter should give some benefit for destroying green creatures.
    Memory Syphon could also have "You can't be the target of black spells this turn."
    My hope was that either none of the four color cards would be hosers, or all of them would be.
    Also, we want to force players to pay the mana cost.
    So, how about something like this for Phantom Knight?

    Phantom Knight
    Creature - Knight
    Protection from Red, first strike
    When a land you control is put into the graveyard from play, put a +2/+1 counter on Phantom Knight.

    Maybe even give it this ability:
    When Phantom Knight comes into play, sacrifice two nonbasic lands. If you don't, sacrifice Phantom Knight.
    We want to work as hard as possible to make sure they earn these effects, so we can make it worth their while. Note that the land sacrifice would pump up Phantom Knight.
    Anyway, that may be a little extreme.

    Stander should probably be blue, only because when using its ability you do get an extra card in your hand.
    Wall Sentry is fine.
    Blah Actor needs a little rewording.
    Blah Actor WW
    Creature - Cleric
    When Blah Actor is removed from the game, put a *something* counter on it.
    Whenever a spell or ability resolves that affects all creatures in play, remove Blah Actor from the game.
    1: Put Blah Actor into play. Any player who owns Blah Actor may play this ability, but only if it is removed from the game and only if it has a *something* counter on it.

    We don't want people putting a bunch of Blah Actors they own into play illegally, but otherwise you can't prevent that.

    Cowardly Lion is fine.
    Razing Zombie's damage should be toned down, just because it's so easy to sacrifice two creatures in one turn with black. Maybe 4 damage? 5?
    Digest is fine. In response to your question, the "in play" is needed, but not the "under their control." Whenever a player "puts (something) into play", they own and control it unless otherwise stated.
    Mana Funnel, Vampire, and Molten Boulder are good the way they are.
    The last card would create too many problems, as there might be disputes over who owned the card. There might be a lawsuit or something.

    I seriously think we should get on with the set. We have enough ideas, but we haven't done anything in terms of making the set since the revisions. I know this part will be boring (I'm not looking forward to it either), but if this is to become more than a bunch of card ideas spanning 10 threads (or however many it is), we'll have to do something.
    In about a month or so, school will start (for some, earlier), and about a month after that, I expect loads of homework to kick in. So I probably won't be able to do major work on it past then.
    I'd like to get cracking on the set soon.
  10. FoundationOfRancor The Gunslinger

    Well, I cant spend much time talking about stuff except for a few quickies...
    Phantom Knight: A four color LD hoser is never gonna work without an acc, because your never gonna get the mana to cast it.

    Blah Actor: Im not sure why you didnt like the original version of it. Whatever you think is best.

    All we need to do is pick the cards that we need to include. I started red. Im sorry, but I cant help. Im leaving for a week tuesday, then I have school (Not to mention I dont have internet when I'll get back)

    So, I wish you good luck.
  11. Jake74 King of Worthless Trivia

    Sorry I haven't been active here much, life has been getting in the way.. :D I'm getting a new house and working a bunch. Enough time to chat and trade, but not to look at all of these cards...
    I have Tuesday off work... :D I think I'll take a look at these and say something.
    I also have all of the cards from the revision threads in a spreadsheet... I can re-post or send them to who ever wants them... The main thing that needs done is to figure which cards have to be in the set... then we can work from there...
  12. Thallid Ice Cream Man 21sT CeNTuRy sChIZoId MaN

    When you're done looking them over, send the cards to me. I'll probably spend the rest of my summer mulling the cards over (which is fine).

    When school starts some of the younger members (namely, those who aren't in college/ at work) might be able to convince people at their schools to let them playtest the set, which might be a great help.
    I would be willing to at least suggest this (depending on who my new play group is; I'm a freshman this year).
    If you do, try two different kinds of games (since I assume booster draft is out of the question) several times with multiple colors:

    1) Subterfuge - Constructed

    2) Subterfuge Common Set - Constructed

    Those of you who are at least a little fastidious could help even more by taking notes of the matches, and by building decks of many different colors (supply decklists! )

    What is the name of that thread that gave the suggested layout of the set, based on color breakdowns and the number of each card type, etc.? That would be helpful too.
  13. FoundationOfRancor The Gunslinger

    Thallid, are you going to be a freshman in College or HS? I assume College...

    Jake, could you send a list to me as well? I can print them and the next time Im on post my comments.

    I'll probablly be able to playtest the set with a couple friends. I know Wotc tests for limited and Draft as well, but I think that might be too hard.
  14. Jake74 King of Worthless Trivia

    The thread called 'Subterfuge: Set Discussion' has the breakdown in it... check that out, links to all the other threads too...

    FoR: do you want me to send it to you in Word format? It would be easier to print and read that way...

    Does anyone know how to make Apprentice sets? that would sure help out play testing...
  15. Thallid Ice Cream Man 21sT CeNTuRy sChIZoId MaN


    I'm going to be a freshman in HS.

    Yes, I'm serious.

    Although I am glad you made that assumption, considering the character of most of the 14 year-olds here. :D


    An Apprentice patch was made for Casualties of War, right?
    If so, who made it?
    I know Chaos Turtle and (I think) Istanbul worked on that set; maybe they could tell us.
  16. Jake74 King of Worthless Trivia

    I put up the links in the Set Discussion thread... be warned, they are over 100 pages of cards total... have a fun time shrinking it down...
    I'll look over these new cards and then put up a list of the new, post revision cards...
    After I'm done, I'm gonna try to figure out how to put these into apprentice... I'm a resourceful guy... I'll do it :D
  17. NeuroDeus Doctor Wundindlinyg

    Hey guys im back... and for more card action... btw...

    how come cards i did -> Keeper of the Dragons, See to Believe and Wolfhead became Landkiller's cards? (Check very first page of this thread) Please remember who originally posted the cards... at least... i get remembered ;)

    Help in the set as usual... sorry for disappearing

    Azyrim Merfolk
    Creature - Merfolk
    First Strike.
    1U: Counter target spell that targets Azyrim Merfolk or an enchantment enchanting Azyrim Merfolk.

    Azyrim Emporer
    Creature - Lord
    All Merfolk in play with UU in their casting cost gain +1/+1 and "May block as though it had flying".
    1U: Counter target spell that targets Azyrim Emporer or an enchantment enchanting Azyrim Emporer.

    Azyrim Saboteur
    Creature - Merfolk
    T: Target creature becomes a 0/2 creature until end of turn. That creature loses all abilities.
    T, Discard your hand: Return target creature to it's owner's hand.

    Azyrim Hulk
    Creature - Merfolk
    During your upkeep tap a Merfolk other than Azyrim Hulk or sacrifice Azyrim Hulk and it deals 3 damage to you.
    UU: Azyrim is unblockable until end of turn.
    T: Azyrim Hulk deals 3 damage to target creature or player. You may pay 3UU or 6 to untap Azyrim Hulk.

    Azyrim Shaman
    Creature - Merfolk
    T: Azyrim Shaman deals 1 damage to target creature or player. You may untap Azyrim Shaman if you pay 2U or 4.
    1U: Counter target spell that targets Azyrim Shaman or an enchantment enchanting Azyrim Shaman.
  18. Jake74 King of Worthless Trivia

    just an oversight I guess...
    I don't think it mattered who gave the original idea... all of us are working on these, all of us should get credit...

    BTW, welcome back. Download the card lists and choose your selections for the first set...
  19. FoundationOfRancor The Gunslinger

    Thallid: Thats really cool! I thought you were alot older. I just finished my first year at HS, gonna be a sophmore next...

    Theres a program you can get to create your own patches for Apprentice.
  20. Jake74 King of Worthless Trivia

    Where can I get it? That would sure help!

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