Discussion in 'Casual Decks/Variants/Etc' started by Oversoul, Jul 13, 2004.

  1. Exaulted_Leader New Member

    ...Fertile Ground? For what purpose?

    One would think that having 100,000,000,000,000,000 mana to play with and 2,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 1/1 tokens to attack with would be enough. :p


    Here's a hypothetical deck-list:


    4x Squirrel Nest
    4x Earthcraft


    4x Force of Will
    4x Misdirection
    4x Daze (...maybe 3x Daze and 1x Stifle?)


    4x Intuition
    4x Brainstorm
    1x Frantic search
    1x Ancestral Recall
    1x Time Walk
    1x Windfall


    1x Altar of Dementia
    1x Stroke of Genius
    1x Treasure Trove
    1x Hurricane
    1x Stream of Life


    3x Birds of Paradise (Maybe cut for more control?)
    1x Mox Sapphire
    1x Mox Emerald
    1x Black Lotus
    4x Tropical Island
    4x Polluted Delta
    4x Land Grant
    4x Windswept Heath
  2. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    What would Earthcraft's ability target in your deck?

    Edit: Okay, I saw what you said in the other thread, so now I'm changing this to...

    Gee, I wish my friends were DUMB enough to let me use Earthcraft on nonbasic lands... :p
  3. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Exaulted_Leader: I'm surmising since the Restriction announcement did not say what the specific combo was, but I'm guessing you need the Fertile Ground to generate infinite mana to cast something like Stroke of Genius or Fireball and any x death spell so you can win on turn 1. With just the Nest and the land, you just create critters (unless you have a haste spell in play also).

    But Fertile Ground was just in some articles I read. You can probably get away with creating critters and Goblin Bombardment for the kill.

    At any rate, Earthcraft is a key piece no matter how you look at it :)
  4. train The Wildcard!!!...

    I 'd like to state that earthcraft is not broken - just crazy...

    Yeah - using Earthcraft on non-basics would be cool...

    Gaea's Cradle anyone?...
  5. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Heh, originally it was supposed to be any land, according to Rosewater's design notes (he wanted a global Ley Druid effect). But (ab)use with the Cradle and Tolarian Academy in play-testing caused the change to just basic lands... :)
  6. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    In response to Spidey's first post (the one following my last one), the haste effect in play still requires something to untap all those tokens in order to kill.

    In response to Spidey's last post...

    Um, Cradle and Academy were printed after Earthcraft. Were they designed before it or something like that?
  7. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    It probably combos with Goblin Bombardment then.

    WOTC designs and playtests sets two years in advance, so while Mirage block was going on, Tempest and Urza's Block would have been together in their Future League.
  8. train The Wildcard!!!...

    The Future League is the next block coming out... The Future Future League is the block coming out after that...

    WoTC attempts to play test all Future and future future cards will all current exisiting ones...

    And sometimes stuff slips through the cracks...

    *cough*Dream Halls, Memory Jar *cough*
  9. Exaulted_Leader New Member

    Oh, geez - my brain isn't winding right. I though Earthcraft stated target Forest for some reason... x.x. I also thought for some odd reason that Lion's Eye Diamond could only produce red mana, and looked rather feeble-headed when I tried to call someone on using it for UUU. Doh!

    Well, the simple solution would then be to simply replace the dual lands with forests and islands. It's not a turn 1 kill, I'm aware - but turn 2 kills tend to be just as efficient in T1 (Again, you don't need Fertile Ground for this. Turn 1, produce 8 million tokens. Turn two, use 4 million or so for mana, use the other 4 million for attacking. Board sweepers are ineffective against this combo, due to the fact that you'll always end-up with SOMETHING untapped to respond with).
  10. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Which is why I have the position on it that I currently do. Turn two kills are always fast enough for Type I, but it still seems to me that the deck would be worse than Belcher, or if it were a disruptive combo deck, rather than all out combo, worse than TPS...

    Yeah, I know about the Future Future League. I just wasn't sure about how things were worked out back when Tempest was being designed. Things have changed after all...
  11. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    But the point is that it CAN be a T1 Kill and I think has actually been used (or dominated at one point) so that's why it got restricted. Haven't heard anything about Charbelcher so maybe people can't get it to work.

    I think they've always had something like the Future Leagues for development, but they "codified" it and made the names around the Tempest/Urza development.
  12. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    I've never heard of Earthcraft dominating...

    The fact that it can be used shouldn't be what restricts it. Any card can be used...

    Oh, people can get Belcher to work. I don't like it. I think it's unreliable. But its seen play...

    I'm not an expert on the archetype, but the version of Appr. I downloaded had a default Belcher deck for T1. Here it is...

    1x Ancestral Recall
    4 Brainstorm
    1x Mystical Tutor
    1x Timetwister
    1x Time Walk
    1x Tinker
    4x Duress
    4x Dark Ritual
    1x Windfall
    1x Yawgmoth's Bargain
    1x Demonic Tutor
    1x Vampiric Tutor
    1x Yawgmoth's Will
    1x Memory Jar
    1x Demonic Consultation
    1x Channel
    4x Elvish Spirit Guide
    4x Land Grant
    4x Eladamri's Vineyard
    1x Lotus Petal
    1x Lion's Eye Diamond
    1x Grim Monolith
    1x Mana Vault
    1x Mana Crypt
    1x Sol Ring
    1x Chrome Mox
    1x Black Lotus
    1x Mox Sapphire
    1x Mox Ruby
    1x Mox Pearl
    1x Mox Jet
    1x Mox Emerald
    4x Chromatic Sphere
    4x Goblin Charbelcher
    1x Tropical Island
    1x Bayou
    4x Stifle
    3x Unmask
    4x Oxidize
    4x Xantid Swarm

    I'm sure that there are better versions out there, but you get the idea...
  13. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    <shrug> To tell the truth, me neither, but I don't really follow Type 1 tourney news. I basically get the announcements and then have to backtrack and find out why.

    Maybe I'll ask rakso.
  14. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Yeah, I'm sure he would know something more about it.
  15. rakso New Member

    If I remember right, Earthcraft + Sacred Mesa + Wild Growth was seen as too strong a I.5 combo based on unrestricted cards at the time. Thing is, there's the policy of tying the I.5 ban and Type I restrict lists, so there you have it.
  16. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Ah, so it had more to do with Type 1.5. Type 1 was just caught in the fallout...

    Thanks rakso...
  17. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    What I'm wondering is if Earthcraft is still too strong in 1.5 now...
  18. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

  19. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    It's in an environment with Force of Will, Bazaar of Baghdad, Mishra's Workshop, Mana Drain, Gobling Welder, Worldgorger Dragon, Skullclamp, Standstill, Mishra's Factory, Hymn to Tourach, Lightning Bolt, Dark Ritual, Duress, Sinkhole, Intuition, The Rack, Oath of Druids, Masticore...

    As with Type I, I think Earthcraft could compete, but dominating is another matter entirely...
  20. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Well, some of the cards are new like Skullclamp, Worldgorger Dragon, and Goblin Welder from when Earthcraft was put on the list but others already existed. Maybe they still couldn't stop the combo... if it's a turn 1 win, only Force of Will had a chance of stopping it, which would mean everyone would have to play blue to include it.

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