Visificationnessity!

[Oversoul]

We've already established that a turn 1 win via Earthcraft is not easy in Type I. I would think it would be somewhat more difficult in 1.5. Turn 3 sounds like a more common clock for it, with maybe turn 1 being possible with some insanely lucky hand...

I don't think that it could be faster than Dragon. And Dragon wins by dropping an enchantment to cause a loop. Its other permanents are typically lands/artifacts. Earthcraft would usually need components that are all enchantments, making it pretty hateable (Disenchant effects will have more targets to shoot for).

 

[Spiderman]

Well, I guess we'd have to know the decklist that made Earthcraft banned from 1.5, see if it can be updated with later expansion cards and play it vs a Dragon deck (which I assume is updated already - if it isn't, do the same).

 

[train]

all you need to beat a dragon is the one drop - planar void...

the 1 blue - stifle, etc...

 

[Oversoul]

Actually you could go with a zero drop: Tormod's Crypt. Unless you're playing black of course, because then Planar Void or something would be better...

And the deck is still competing in tournaments with some amount of success, even with such a weakness...

 

[train]

I think it's that people aren't running as much disruption for it yet...

Heck - even a swords works...

 

[Oversoul]

I think it's just that it's a fast deck. Plenty of things will stop it, but if you don't draw those right away, and if you don't go first, it might not matter...

 

[train]

The deck going off first turn is as difficult as earthcraft doing it - second turn though it can easily go off...

I think the opponent will get the turn needed to lay some rules down and let dragon know it's beat...

 

[Oversoul]

So you think Dragon isn't a good deck even though its been doing well in tournaments?

 

[train]

No - I don't think dragon is a good deck....

A Good deck is a deck that can win on more than one level... In what other ways does dragon win?.... Can it go a long game?...

 

[Oversoul]

I disagree. Dragon wins. It doesn't need to win on "multiple levels" or whatever you're talking about (not even sure). While it's not Keeper, it can go for a moderately long game too...

 

[train]

So dragon does what if the bazaar is destroyed, dragon stifled, planar void dropped, etc...

tries to hard-cast it all later?

 

[Oversoul]

If Bazaar is destroyed, that hurts it, but it doesn't NEED Bazaar to go off and it can draw into a second pretty well...

If Planar Void is dropped Dragon must counter or kill it...

Stifling Dragon can stop the deck from going off, but one must often Stifle Xantid Swarm as well, which is a bit more to ask of the card...

 

[train]

So what is the kill besides dragon?...

 

[Oversoul]

I'm not positive, since there's some variation between decks...

But some can win with Necromancy on Sliver Queen, and beat down with a 7/7 token-generator...

Mostly they just protect the Dragon though...

 

[Homestar]

i like the necromancy thing........

 

[train]

Okay - I understand using critters as beatsticks, but they are as susceptible to killing as dragon other than stifle... so the advantage is still on the side of the control player...

 

[Oversoul]

I guess I didn't mention Xantid Swarm. I don't know why not...

 

[train]

I remember the Xantid being mentioned previously... and it is a great card to run... Definitely used for longer games... (Shorter games it would take a turn to work and dragon wants to move faster than that...)

I still think Dragon didn't make much of a showing in the Type 1 championships... due to it's susceptibility to creature control, countering, and even stifling...

Or was there some other reason?
(I'm even up for the - they didn't have money to go scenario...)

 

[Oversoul]

It made a showing. Three decks almost made top 8. That's pretty good. Better than Keeper in that particular tournament--much better. And no one's denying the power of that deck...

 

[train]

Three decks almost made top 8.

But this is what I'm talking about... When you look at the tier 1 decks - in any recent format... at least one of each always makes the top 8... Like Ravager, Slaver, etc at Regionals... The decks were slated as tier 1 and made it there...

But no dragon decks made top 8 - and if you look at what was being played - dragon "should" have fared a little better, with at least 1 showing in the top 8... Granted - "On any given day..." but with the decks that did make top 8 - they had plenty of ways to handle dragon, and it didn't get past those...

That's what makes me wonder about it's strengths... and reminds me of how susceptible to multiple forms of disruption it really is...