How good is Phage?

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EricBess

Guest
Got Phage in a draft a couple of days ago. Also got 3 Dragon Shadows...

The only person I lost to was the other black player in the draft. One game of note I just held on until I hit 7 mana and dropped Phage. At that point, I was at 10 life and my opponent hit me for 7 that turn, putting me at 3. He was playing white and left a blocker open with one card in hand. It turned out to be rejuvinate. Still, since I didn't know if it was an enchantment kill, I dropped 2 Shadows on Phage and my opponent lost the game at 16 life.
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
No one had Lingering Death or Wing Shards (two spells off the top of my head that could deal with it, aside from burn)? Cool...
 
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EricBess

Guest
Obviously, that wasn't my only win condition. But with 3 Dragon Shadows and some pretty hefty creatures, I typically had as much evasion as the WU mages and their flying. It didn't hurt that I had 4 of 5 fliers of my own.
 
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Nightstalkers

Guest
with Scourge's "Bigger is Better" theme, dragon shadow is just mean against most decks...

If only Black weren't so prominent now a days... I should play straight Blue to break those idiots at the tournament.
 
S

Skyrider

Guest
In central FL R/W slide seems to be most prominant. I'm still with you on the idea of goin straight blue against them thou lol
 
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Nightstalkers

Guest
I'm sure that train and all of the others have their individual experiences with Blue to make them sing the Blues, but Black is the most dominant color and I've had enough to know that its time for someone to put a stop to it. Giving into cheap tricks will be the only way to show them thier folly in lying their trust in animation of dead creatures and whatnot.

"Give it up!" I tell them. I have had it up to my ears about how Black can overstomp white by overcoming its protection and other "cheap tricks."
 
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Skyrider

Guest
Yeah most have been praising MBC for a while now. Blue's got some of the sickest stuff in history in it's arsenal. Even if you don't use the combos and just make a deck out of all of the really mean cards you could kill someone easily.

Plus blue has the almighty counterspell.
 
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Nightstalkers

Guest
Black has Mr. Chainers Edict that will take care of untargetable creatures. Teamed up with a Mirrari you would get two creatures killed at the same time.

Its just how you look at the colors and how your mindset can deal with them. I have a friend around here that doesn't flinch when you play blue because he seems to be able to beat them without a hitch; when it comes to green though :rolleyes: he's kinda a scaredy cat
 
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Nightstalkers

Guest
He gets this wierd angry look on his face and criticises your every move... a very peculiar person.

Hmm, Lets see:

W/U gives you the chance to use Karma + Magical Hack, Northern Paladon + Sleight of Mind... Hey! Alter Reality!!!
 
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Nightstalkers

Guest
I still think its a good plan. Northern Paladin and Alter Reality give you the chance to destroy any permanent of whatever color you wish.

and no work with a phage if she threatens... think about what you could do with stupid protection and circles!

Already done before but now I'm thinking about flashback :D
 
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train

Guest
I'm sure that train and all of the others have their individual experiences with Blue to make them sing the Blues,
2 words... "Invisible Juggernaut"
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Just saw this in the Deck forum and I think either no one realizes this or it's being kept secret, but using Stifle with Phage opens up a lot of possibilities... :)
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Tell me what's the definition of a triggered ability and does Phage qualify?

Like I said, either it's being secret tech or no one knows enough to exploit it.
 
N

Nightstalkers

Guest
Elvish piper is supposedly going to be in 8th, so why not?

A.4 - Triggered Abilities
A.4.1 - A triggered ability begins with the word "when", "whenever",
or "at". The phrase starting with one of these words is the trigger
condition. [CompRules 1999/04/23] More completely, a triggered ability
reads "When/whenever/at <condition>, do <effect>". [D'Angelo 1999/05/01]
A.4.2 - Triggered abilities check for their condition at all times, even
during the middle of an event (see Rule T.1.6). [D'Angelo 1999/05/01]
A.4.3 - Triggered abilities are not played. They wait until the next time
a player receives priority, then they are put on the stack (see Rule T.2).
It is placed on as a pseudospell, with a copy of its source's text, color,
and controller at the time it triggered. [CompRules 1999/04/23]
A.4.4 - Triggered abilities only trigger while the permanent is in play
unless otherwise stated. See Rule A.1.3. [CompRules 1999/04/23]
A.4.5 - Once triggered, the ability exists independently of the card or
token which generated it. Destruction or removal of the source after that
time will not affect the ability. [CompRules 1999/04/23]
A.4.6 - If the ability says that its source does something, then the
characteristics of the source at the time the ability resolves are used.
[CompRules 1999/04/23] If the source is no longer in play, its last known
characteristics are used. [CompRules 1999/04/23]
A.4.7 - You follow the rules for announcing a spell or ability at the time
the ability is put on the stack. This means making targeting choices and
the choice of mode as per Rule T.4.2. [CompRules 1999/04/23]
A.4.8 - If multiple triggered abilities are being placed on the stack at
one time, ones controlled by the current player go on the stack first, in
any order that player chooses. Then ones controlled by the other player,
in any order that player chooses. [CompRules 1999/04/23]
A.4.9 - The controller of a triggered ability is the controller of the
permanent which generated it (if it is from a permanent) or the controller
of the effect which generated it. The controller is set at the time the
ability triggers, not when it is put on the stack. [CompRules 1999/11/01]
A.4.10 - This rule has been removed. [Rules Team 2001/05/01] Previously,
a triggered ability's controller could be different from the permanent's
controller if the other player got a choice.
A.4.11 - This rule has been removed. [Rules Team 2001/05/01] Previously, if
a triggered ability offered both players a choice, it put separate
abilities on the stack for each player. Now only one ability is placed
on the stack and is resolved for all players.
A.4.12 - A triggered ability triggers once for each time its trigger
condition occurs. It can trigger more than once on a single event in the
game if the condition occurs more than once. [CompRules 1999/04/23] For
example, if an ability reads "Whenever a land is put into a graveyard from
play, ..." then the ability would trigger 5 times if 5 lands were put into
the graveyard at one time.
A.4.13 - Some triggered abilities give a player a choice of doing something
or doing nothing. These use the word "may" and are worded
like "When <condition>, you may do <something>". The choice of whether or
not to do the action is made on resolution of the triggered ability.
[WotC Rules Team 2000/02/16] This is a REVERSAL of Rule 410.5, which said
that you decided on announcement and if you decided not to, that the
ability was never placed on the stack.
A.4.14 - A triggered ability may include a test in its effect, worded
as "When/whenever/at <condition>, if <test> do <effect>". This test is
done at the time the ability would trigger and if not true then the
ability does not trigger at all. This test is also performed when the
ability resolves. If not true at that time, the ability does nothing.
[CompRules 1999/04/23]
A.4.15 - A triggered ability that watches for a game state checks its
condition at all times, even during the middle of the resolution of a
spell or ability. This is called a "state-based trigger".
[CompRules 1999/04/23]
A.4.16 - A triggered ability that watches for a game state will not trigger
again until any unresolved pseudospell placed on the stack by the ability
resolves or is countered. For example, an ability reads "When your hand
is empty, draw a card." If its controller plays the last spell from their
hand, it triggers once and won't trigger again until after this resolves,
and then you empty your hand again. [CompRules 1999/04/23]
A.4.17 - An ability that reads "Whenever <name> blocks" or "Whenever <name>
becomes blocked" triggers only once each combat even if that creature
blocks or is blocked by multiple creatures. [CompRules 1999/04/23] This
ability will also trigger if a spell or ability is used to make the
creature become blocked. [CompRules 1999/04/23]
A.4.18 - An ability that reads "Whenever <name> blocks a creature" or
"Whenver a creature blocks <name>" will trigger once for each creature.
[CompRules 1999/04/23] This kind of trigger will not happen if a spell or
ability is used to make the creature become blocked.
[CompRules 1999/04/23]
A.4.19 - A triggered ability that triggers on a zone change (such as going
to the graveyard) and which tries to do something to the card will look
for the card in the zone it went to. If the card leaves the zone before
the triggered ability resolves, the ability will fail to do anything.
[CompRules 1999/04/23] For example, "When this card goes to the graveyard
from play, remove it from the game" will trigger when the card goes to the
graveyard. If the card is not still in the graveyard on resolution, the
ability will not do anything.
A.4.20 - "Leaves play" triggers are handled with a special rule. Since the
permanent will no longer be in play, if the ability wants to check
anything about the permanent or game state, the ability "looks back in
time" to just before the permanent left play. Any continuous effects or
triggered abilities present at that time apply. [CompRules 1999/04/23]
For example, two creatures are in play with an artifact that
says "Whenever a creature is put into a graveyard from play, you gain 1
life". A spell is played that destroys all artifacts, creatures, and
enchantments. The artifact's ability triggers twice even though the
artifact went to the graveyard at the same time as the creatures. If you
back up time to right before anything left play, it was there.
[CompRules 1999/04/23]
A.4.21 - "Comes into play" triggers see the permanent after any continuous
effects are applied. For example, if Blood Moon is in play then a
non-basic land will enter play as a Mountain and something triggering off
a Mountain coming into play would trigger but something triggering off a
non-basic land coming into play would not. [D'Angelo 1999/05/01]
A.4.22 - Effects that prevent abilities from being played do not prevent
triggered abilities from being put on the stack. [CompRules 1999/04/23]
A.4.23 - An ability that triggers whenever a creature is blocked by a
specific number of creatures can trigger after the declaration of blockers
if a spell or ability adds an additional blocker. For example,
Johtull Wurm's ability triggers when blocked by two or more creatures.
If one blocked it during declaration of blockers, then another was added
later, the ability will trigger. Note that swapping one blocker for
another one blocker will not cause such abilities to trigger.
[WotC Rules Team 2000/02/16] Note that such an ability can trigger only
once per combat phase. [D'Angelo 2000/02/25]
A.4.Ruling.1 - Because triggered abilities are placed on the stack (see
Rule T.2), triggered abilities can become nested. For example, if one
spell's resolution caused two triggered abilities to trigger, then during
the resolution of the first one of these triggered abilities, another
one is triggered. The newly triggered ability is resolved first since it
will be on top of the stack. [D'Angelo 1999/05/01]
A.4.Ruling.2 - Abilities which trigger on you losing control of something
also trigger if that something leaves play since you lose control of it
when it leaves play. [bethmo 1996/01/15]
A.4.Ruling.3 - Multiple abilities can trigger off the same thing happening,
but a single permanent's ability will never double-fire off of a single
action. For example, if you have two Scavenging Ghouls in play, each
will get a counter if a creature dies, but neither will get two counters.
[D'Angelo 1999/05/01]
A.4.Ruling.4 - If the trigger condition is prevented or replaced, then the
triggered ability will not trigger. [CompRules 1999/04/23]
A.4.Ruling.5 - The text "This permanent comes into play as/with <something>"
is not a triggered ability. It just describes something that happens
as part of the event that puts the permanent into play. For example,
"this card comes into play with three +1/+1 counters on it."
[CompRules 1999/04/23]
A.4.Ruling.6 - A triggered ability can trigger on its own permanent leaving
play. See Rule A.4.20. [D'Angelo 1999/05/01] For example, an
Animate Artifact on a Soul Net will allow you to use the Soul Net's
ability when it is killed.
A.4.Ruling.7 - Rule A.4.20 only applies to determine stuff read in by the
trigger. If the trigger sets up a continuous effect with an end
condition, the end condition is checked against the current game state,
not the state before the permanent left play. [D'Angelo 1999/05/26]
A.4.Ruling.8 - If a card reads like "Whenever a player plays a <color1>
or <color2> spell, do something", then it triggers only once if the
played spell is of both colors. It would need two "Whenever" statements
in order to trigger twice. This ruling applies to an "or" between
descriptions. [bethmo 1999/09/22] In contrast, if the "or" falls between
action as with "Whenever this card comes into play or goes to the
graveyard from play, do something", then it triggers if either action
occurs. [DeLaney 1999/10/17]


So it is... wow, i'll try that spidey
 
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EricBess

Guest
I don't think it's that no one has thought to exploit it. I think part of it is that most people haven't really realized how versitile Stifle is. Most people think - bad counter because it's a 1 for 0 trade (since most ativated abilities don't involve loss of cards). Of course, at the moment, there are a lot of cool things to do with Stifle. You sac your Poluted Delta? Okay, I'll Stone Rain for 1 blue.

And even stopping a cycling effect isn't all that bad. No, you don't draw after all...

I think reanimation of Phage will happen, but I think that the main reason it's not take too seriously at the moment is 1) There are other creatures that win just as well if reanimated (if a bit slower) and 2) if the Stifle gets countered, you lose.
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
don't think it's that no one has thought to exploit it. I think part of it is that most people haven't really realized how versitile Stifle is.
That sounds like the same thing to me ;) Maybe "exploit" is too strong of a term, but you basically said what I meant :)

You're probably right in tourney settings. Casual play (like with my group :) ) should get a big boost though.
 
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