Team-made set...

[DÛke]

...so Hooligan Mage is a bit on the "too good" edge...oh well.

I just wanted a strong female who could be so, um...harsh...how about:

___
Hooligan Mage (2UU) (3/4)
Creature - Mage
At the beginning of your upkeep step, pay 1 or tap Hooligan Mage.
If you paid B, target player loses 1 life.
If you paid W, gain 1 life.
If you paid U, tap target artifact, creature, or land.
___

There...now, she doesn't do as much, but she still has the flexibility. A 3/4 for 4 mana is NOT that undercosted...for Blue maybe, but...with 1 for an upkeep, she should be balanced. She could also tap an annoying creature to make sure that her attack gets through. She could give you 1 life each turn, which isn't that bad (good against Red actually), and she could kill off an opponent slowly...even an opponent with a Worship. Not that powerful, but VERY playable.

What do you think - anyone?

What about the rest of the cards? Are they kind of balanced - after I explained why they should be?

[Edited by DÛke on 01-20-01 at 06:37 PM]

 

[Thallid Ice Cream Man]

They all seem fine to me. Just keep in mind that, while the special upkeep cost mechanic can be very useful, it can also get hectic when the cost is multiple mana.

I think I can settle for your latest version without much of a problem.


Now that that seems to be over with...

Can I post more cards or is it too soon?

 

[Cateran Emperor]

[me]climbs out from under a pile of textbooks[/me]...feh...midterms...

I won't be able to say anything until next Tuesday, I'll be too busy to do any heavy posting until then

 

[DÛke]

...yeah, you could post a couple of ideas...go ahead.

Cateran Emp, I'm sorry for that...at least you'll be back soon.

Anyway...I don't know how the set is goin' to build itself, but...I guess time will tell...

I thought of picking MY favorite submited, fixed...cards and putting them in the set, but that's not fair...my opinion is not that speaks for all - not yet, anyway. So, I figured that we could...after we have huge amount of cards, we each submit a "list" of cards we want on the set: cards that have been submitted, and most likey, commented and "fixed". Then, we compare each list...AND then see which cards got "voted" the most to be on the set, therefore...each card has it's own fate, held by each one of us...and possibly some CPA members I have in mind...

 

[Thallid Ice Cream Man]

Here they are:

Ashen Kavu
2BR
Creature - Kavu
During your upkeep, if a creature card that says "Creature - Kavu" on it is in your graveyard above Ashen Kavu, put Ashen Kavu into play.
Haste
3/1

Aura Lock
1WG
Enchantment
If Aura Lock is untapped, activated abilities of enchantments cost an additional "Tap," and tapped enchantments lose their continuous abilities.
Sacrifice an enchantment: Untap Aura Lock.

Chivalry Training
1WG
Enchantment
Untapped creatures you control have protection from black and get +2/+2.

Hot-Blooded Kavu
2GR
Creature - Kavu
Creatures you control that have haste get +1/+1.
Haste
2/2

Necromantic Spy
1UB
Creature - Spy
UB, Tap, Return Necromantic Spy to owner’s hand: Choose a card type. Reveal the top card of target player’s library to all players. If it is of the chosen type, either put it into the hand or the graveyard of that player.
1/1

Pastoral Reprieve
2RG
Sorcery
Destroy all artifacts and enchantments. Draw a card.

Soul Vortex
BBR
Enchant Creature
During your upkeep, Soul Vortex deals 1 damage to enchanted creature and to its controller and you gain 1 life.
Do not remove damage from enchanted creature at the end of the turn.

Spectral Illusions
1WU
Enchantment
Whenever a creature comes into play, put a spectrum counter on Spectral Illusions.
Whenever a creature leaves play, remove a spectrum counter from Spectral Illusions.
WU, Remove a spectrum counter from Spectral Illusions: Remove target creature from the game, then return it to play under its owner’s control. Use this ability only once per turn.
We are all tricks of the light, and may flicker at any moment.

Syphon Lore
1BU
Instant
Target player discards a card. Draw a card.

Veteran Griffin
2WU
Creature - Griffin
Flying
Tap an untapped Griffin you control: Draw a card.
The leader of these griffins led them to victory at the Battle of Andor Fall by surprising the enemies by being part of the first group of griffins to employ a complicated battle strategy.
1/2

Zealous Paladin
1WWW
Creature - Knight
1WW, Tap: Tap all nonwhite creatures.
2/3

Serial Assassin
BBB
Creature - Assassin
When Serial Assassin comes into play, choose target creature.
B, TAP: Destroy the creature that was last chosen by an effect whose source is Serial Assassin. Then choose target creature.
1/1


Should I take out the Kavus? The Hot-Blooded Kavu could be changed to another type of creature, but the Ashen Kavu would need to be scrapped.

 

[Istanbul]

TICM - Your blue effect for Hooligan Mage is too strong. Ever Capsize two lands a turn for your opponent? Know how strong of a lock that can be?

Duke - The Tangle Wire effect is precisely what I want to *avoid*.
Strikesky Minion (blue) - Balanced.
Strikesky Minion (red) - Balanced.
Strikesky Minion (colorless) - Balanced.
Cutlass Strike (black) - Way too strong. 3 mana for a 3-point Drain Life. BETTER than the original.
Cutlass Strike (green) - Balanced.

TICM - Your Hopestrike Beast is fair.

Duster - Your Hooligan Mage is fair.

Duke - Your NEW Hooligan Mage is fair.

TICM:
Ashen Kavu - Balanced.
Aura Lock - How, precisely, does one tap an enchantment?
Chivalry Training - OUCH. Give me +1/+1.
Hot-Blooded Kavu - Balanced.
Necromantic Spy - Interesting! Needs a bit of templating, but it's balanced.
Pastoral Reprieve - Make it 3RG. See also Purify.
Soul Vortex - Have it put a -1/-1 counter on the creature instead of dealing 1 damage. Makes the creature less dangerous AND prevents templating problems.
Spectral Illusions - Dangerous. Double-duty out of all CIP creatures?
Syphon Lore - WOW. Very strong. Add 1 to the mana cost.
Veteran Griffin - Balanced.
Zealous Paladin - Immediate win for Rebel decks. Change to '1WW, T, Choose a color: Tap all creatures of that color.'
Serial Assassin - Gives me a headache. Once more, in English?

 

[DÛke]

...here I go:

Ashen Kavu - Not bad at all. However, in this set, I don't think we'll see a lot of "Kavu" creatures, and I don't really want a card that effects the "outside" environment of the set, but not the "inside" one. It's really cool though.

Aura Lock - The problem with this card is that it will NEVER be tapped. Enchantments can't "tap".

Chivarly Training - Good, however, too simple. Not much interesting of a "thing" is goin' on with this; it might be too powerful. Add 1 to the casting cost.

Hot-Blooded Kavu - Good, but...again...it's a Kavu. Besides, its uses are limited; very limited: to only creatures with Haste. It's good, since it, itself is a 3/3 with Haste.

Necromantic Spy - Wow! Cool...but maybe a bit weak. It's not THAT powerful that you need such a drawback as "...Return Necromantic Spy to owner’s hand..."; so what I suggest you do is, make the ability cost 1 more, and add "...Shuffle target player's library..." to make sure that affects like Soothsaying wouldn't "interfere" with the balance.

Here's what I'm looking for:

Necromantic Spy (1UB) (1/1)
Creature - Spy
1UB, Tap: Shuffle target player's library and name a card type. Reveal the top card of that player’s library to all players. If it is of the chosen type, either put it into the hand or the graveyard of that player.

Pastoral Reprieve - I think it's fine. Maybe a bit too powerful, but...Purify costs 3WW; it's MONO white. This costs 2RG, so it just a little bit harder to cast. If it's too powerful, easy: add 1 to the mana cost...anyway, this card is good, but it's not doing anything new.

Soul Vortex - See Istanbul's review.

Spectral Illusions - I think you could make this card mono white. I don't see the reason for the Blue. I like it a lot. I think it maybe a bit too powerful, activating CIP creatures, punishing blockers/attackers...VERY flexible. I don't think it could be too powerful, since it's totally dependant on creatures coming and leaving play.

Syphon Lore - This is the dicard spell we've all been waiting for. I don't agree with Istanbul about adding 1 to the casting cost. Look at what Recoil does - it's NOT that powerful at all. It's like a Recoil, but instead of retruning a permenant, you get to draw a card. Not bad, or too powerful...AT ALL...but GOOD.

Veteran Griffin - Good. It could tap itself, plus it could tap anyother Griffin's you might control - good; limited ability though...most cases, you'd see someone tapping the Veteran Griffin itself for the card...

Zealous Paladin - Whow! You don't need that extra deep White mana in the cost! You could make it "2WW"! AND you SHOULD make it "2WW". I disagree with Istanbul's comment about this card. I don't think White has the ability to pick the color of it's victims, and TAP them all (more like a Blue effect). I think the "non-White" phrase is good, but it makes the card TOO powerful. I don't like "raising" a card's casting cost to fix it's problem...so I think we need to find some kind of a drawback to give this little bad boy...MAYBE making it's casting cost "2UW" and the ability "1UW" and then...you could DO what Istanbul said...I think.

Serial Assassin - VERY cool. However, change the casting cost into "1BB". I don't see any reason for the deep Black.

Whow! That was long.

 

[Thallid Ice Cream Man]

Naturally, DÛke and Istanbul disagree again...

Istanbul: The suggestion made about Hooligan Mage's U ability was made to attempt to eliminate the Tangle Wire thing. Moreover, considering that you like the current version of Hooligan Mage (which I later said I do as well), why does it matter anymore?

Aura Lock: How do you tap enchantments? See text of Aura Lock. Also, see Licids. Do the rules ever specifically state that enchantments can't be tapped? I know they don't have to be tapped, but with Aura Lock out they do. Unless enchantments can't be tapped at all (which is a stupid and restrcitive rule IMHO) here could be a better version:

Aura Lock
GW
During your upkeep, sacrifice an enchantment or tap Aura Lock.
As long as Aura Lock is untapped, activated abilities of enchantments cost an additional "Tap" and tapped enchantments lose their continuous abilities.

Is that better?/worse?/just plain stupid?

I'll probably just need to scrap Ashen Kavu.

Chivalry Training should be changed to +1/+1. I'm fine with that. But maybe it should be first strike instead of pro: Black. What about that?

Hot-Blooded Kavu: Then what creature type should it become? I want to mention that creatures don't lose haste just because they've been out long enough to attack normally.

Necromantic Spy: What exactly has to be templated?

Pastoral Reprieve: I created this card with Purify in mind, because it made no sense to me that white should have that card and not green or even partly red. Maybe I should remove the cantrip part, but I'm not making it cost 5 mana.

Soul Vortex: Changing it like you suggested would slightly alter the spirit of the card. Here is a less messy version, however:

Soul Vortex
BBR
Enchant Creature
Whenever enchanted creature would be dealt damage, instead put a -0/-1 counter on it for each damage that would be dealt to it.
During you upkeep, Soul Vortex deals 1 damage to enchanted creature and 1 damage to its controller. Gain 1 life.

Spectral Illusions: I just realized something: I can incorporate the variable upkeep cost thingie here! Here is an admittedly altered version:

Spectral Illusions
WU
Enchantment
Whenever a creature leaves play, remove a spectral counter from Spectral Illusions.
During your upkeep, pay 1 or destroy Spectral Illusions.
If you paid W, Spectral Illusions has "Remove a spectral counter from Spectral Illusions: Remove target creature from the game. At end of turn, return it to play under its owner's control." until the beginning of your next upkeep.
If you paid U, Spectral Illusions has "Whenever a creature comes into play, put a spectral counter on Spectral Illusions."

Is this worse now?

Zealous Paladin isn't a rebel. It costs 4 mana anyway. I don't see how this is that overpowering for just rebels. It also ties up mana and its cost is heavily white. In rebels, it only excels if little more mana will be devoted later to searching and a significant number of creatures is out already. You can't attack with it if you use it either.

Serial Assassin: I meant to make this a balanced version of Royal Assassin by letting anyone know beforehand which creature was going to die. In addition, if the chosen creature dies before this guy can kill it, this guy just sits there, unable to kill anything. How should I fix it? (I didn't use counters 'cause I'm scared of Giant Fan.)


By the way, by the time I posted this the first time, I hadn't seen DÛke's post, so wait if you responded to this the first time around.

[Edited by Thallid Ice Cream Man on 01-21-01 at 10:36 AM]

 

[DÛke]

...is not just with the cards' abilities, but the cards themselves. I mean, some of the cards are really cool, BUT some are just a rehash of what already exists. I know this will turn to be what is a "rehash" maybe something "new" to others, but...for example: Pastoral Reprieve and Chivalry Training are just "redos" of existing cards, or something really close. However, we...or I...want cards like Serial Assassin - that are unique, and new...

 

[Thallid Ice Cream Man]

That's fine. I have more original cards along the way, such as this one:

Moon Jellyfish
3U
Creature - Fish
U, Tap: Tap target creature.
U, Sacrifice Moon Jellyfish: Tap all creatures.
At night, the moon and the tide create the perfect cover.

How is it?

In response to Istanbul's continuing commentary on Cutlass Strike: You should probably change the life gain on the RB version to 2, just to appease him.

 

[Istanbul]

TCIM - Chill, dude. I'm sensing a lot of hostility from you. We're all in this together. BTW, from what I read, Duke and I agreed on most of the things you put up.

Hooligan Mage - Running commentary.
Aura Lock - Just too confusing. Makes for all sorts of rules problems.
Chivalry Training - +1/+1 and first strike? Sounds right. Very 'knight'ish.
Hot-Blooded Kavu - Why do we have to change its creature type? Oh well. How about 'Wolverine'? Its ability reminds me of a wolverine...fast and ruthless.
Necromantic Spy - Define 'types' of cards.
Pastoral Reprieve - *shrug* Look at Tranquility. 2G to kill all enchantments. You're telling me that adding a single red mana should include a Shatterstorm? Sorry, it's simply undercosted.
Soul Vortex - When do you gain the life? When Soul Vortex is played? During your upkeep?
Spectral Illusions - Worse now. What I basically get from this is that you're trying to make a reusable Flicker. A reusable Flicker is DANGEROUS. Remember how the rumors about the Flicker Spellshaper were met with mass-drooling?
Zealous Paladin is too strong because all I have to do is fish one out. I tap all of your creatures, then attack with everything. A turn or two later, I win. It doesn't HAVE to be a rebel.
Serial Assassin - Why fear Giant Fan? It's in Unglued. My chief worry is that, unless you can kill the targeted creature, this guy has the power to single-handedly decimate the opposing side of the board. WAY strong. Why do you think Royal Assassin hasn't been reprinted?
Moon Jellyfish - Fair, but...what's its P/T?

Don't do things just to 'appease' me. I'm not doing this because I'm a picky little turd, I'm going for card balance, here. If you want me to stop criticizing, let me know, and I'll leave this forum and not come back.

 

[DÛke]

...Istanbul, you shouldn't leave because some tells you to. Who cares if he doesn't want you/me or whomever on this, I want you here, and you should be here...one opinion shouldn't be able to change anyone's mind, especailly - um...yours Istanbul.

Anyway, the Jellyfish is ok...not that unique though, but at least it's something new.

TICM, please stop pointing out the disagreements here or whatever - who cares who disagreed with whom? Just let it go...

 

[Bob]

Blood Bank 4
Artifact
0: Deal 1 damage to target untapped creature you control. That creature taps. put a blood counter on blood bank
Remove a counter from blood bank: prevent 2 damage to any creature or gain 2 life.
"For a measly 4 pints of blood, you can win - a small mug!"
Uncommon

Mental Distortion 2BU
Instant
Tap target creature. That creature gets -1/-1 until end of turn
Return an instant card from your graveyard to your hand
"OW! MY HEAD!!!"
Common

Dynamite 3
Artifact
Comes into play with a light counter on it, and 2 fuse counters
0: remove the light counter. Each upkeep, remove a fuse couner. When you no longer can, sacrifice Dynamite and destroy target land you control. Deal 2 damage to all creatures
Rare

 

[DÛke]

...more cards to judge:

Blood Bank - Weird little card you got there now...I know it's not too powerful. Please don't say this is too broken, anyone - because it's not. First off, you need a creature (most likely, one that survives the 1 damage), then you need to tap that creature (making it unable to attack OR block), and THEN, you could gain the 2 life or prevent the 2 damage. It's balanced, however...I, to an extent, dislike the life gain/damage prevention cards because their effects are too minimal.

Mental Distortion - Very cool. I'd use it. I don't see anything wrong with it.

Dynamite - Cool. I can't judge if it's too powerful, maybe the casting cost should be increased to 4, MAYBE. Needs templating; that's how it's to be written:

Dynamite (4)
Artifact
Dynamite comes into play with 1 light, and 2 fuse counters.
0: Remove a light counter from Dynamite.
At the beginning of your upkeep step, if Dynamite has no light counters on it, remove a fuse coutner from Dynamite, if you can't, sacrifice Dynamite, sacrifice a land, and deal 2 damage to all creatures.
"It's only a matter of time..."

By the way, don't worry about the rariy; we all will decide on each card's rarity when we're setting up the set.

 

[Jaws10387]

Originally posted by Bob
[Dynamite 3
Artifact
Comes into play with a light counter on it, and 2 fuse counters
0: remove the light counter. Each upkeep, remove a fuse couner. When you no longer can, sacrifice Dynamite and destroy target land you control. Deal 2 damage to all creatures
Rare [/B]

This isn't too powerful. Its essentially a 2 point earthquake for 3 and sacrificing a land. That could actually be considered over costed if you think about it.

 

[Duster]

I like Dynamite the way it is, in response to Jaws' concerns about it being overcosted, the fact that it's colorless damage makes it worth the extra mana and times. Rath's Edge uses 4 mana and a land to do 1 damage and it's still "playable."

Maybe a more clever name too? I have no ideas, but "Dynamite" seems a little plain, and as much as I'd want it to be DynOmyte!, it won't happen.

S'all,
Dustin

 

[Chaos Turtle]

This looks a lot like Bounty Hunter, but I kind of like it.
Here's a clearly-worded and (I hope) balanced version.

--------------------------------------------------
Serial Killer
1BB
Creature - Assassin
--------------------------------------------------
When Serial Killer comes into play,
put a Pattern counter on target non-
black creature.

B, Tap: Destroy target creature with
a Pattern counter on it. Put a Pattern
counter on another target nonblack
creature. You lose 2 life.
--------------------------------------------------
"Yawgmoth made me do it."
--------------------------------------------------

The life loss may be a little harsh; 1 life might be more appropriate.

Making this guy even better, you could add an ability: "Pay 4 life: Put a Pattern Counter on target nonblack creature." This keeps him going even if the victim manages to kill or bounce (or otherwise make an illegal target of) his marked creature.
If you do that, consider making him a 1/2 for 3B to maintain a little balance.

I deliberately left out "It can't be regenerated" to keep this nutcase from being a total menace, but it could be added without too much trouble. He's still vulnerable to direct damage and some removal.

Thoughts?

 

[Istanbul]

Make it a payment of 1 life instead of 2, and I think we have a balanced version.

 

[Duster]

I've reviewed every black card that has been posted here and reworded many. I'll try to post the list ASAP. Please note that it will be a LONG post, as I will post both the original card and the remake. I think we should stop posting ideas for a short time after that post so we can discuss and re-revise all the submitted black cards. Look for it Wednesday afternoon!

S'all,
Dustin

 

[Duster]

As of now, we have 16 black cards, most of which are very solid. I'm extremely happy with the direction we're heading. Hopefully I'll get to posting some of my own ideas soon.

Keep up the good work!
S'all,
Dustin