Religion: Justifactions

A

Aku Necromancer

Guest
Originally posted by Svenmonkey
My owp-inn-yun on religion is this:

It is created (yes, created, not "given") to keep the standard people down, like a primitive version of the law with something that doesn't respond as the head of it, leaving it open to corrupt interpretation. I am pretty much decided on the issue, that religion is corrupt and there most likely isn't a God (and, as I've said before, if there was one I would tell it to leave me alone).

And about all of this smackage of people's belief systems, I do sort of agree with DÛke, since he has, on numerous occasions, shown me that some of my own beliefs are completely absurd and flawed.
Yes, I agree, religion has done some unspeakable things in the past. However that was the religion that did that, not God. If anyone took the time to read The Bible, Im sure they would be given a different outlook, and perhaps understand why someone like myself would shape his life after it.

Truly you wouldnt reject God if you realized there was one. Why would anyone?
 
S

Svenmonkey

Guest
Originally posted by Aku Necromancer:
Truly you wouldnt reject God if you realized there was one. Why would anyone?
If the Bible is true, then I would reject God altogether, for it portrays him as an arse.

And I never did say that any god was responsible for religious corruption, just that no god responds to people (at least any more), if indeed it does exist.
 
A

Aku Necromancer

Guest
Originally posted by Svenmonkey
If the Bible is true, then I would reject God altogether, for it portrays him as an arse.

And I never did say that any god was responsible for religious corruption, just that no god responds to people (at least any more), if indeed it does exist.
How is he portraid as an arse?

Why should God respond to those who belittle and ignore him?
 
S

Svenmonkey

Guest
Read the Old Testament and you'll know why I think your God is a butt. "Oh, here have these commandments, all of which are about being good to folks. Oh, by the way, go exterminate your enemies. I've got this great idea called 'The Ban' that lets you be extremely cruel to everyone but your own race!"* And how about, "You aren't worshipping hard enough! Diiiiie!"*

And about the God only responding to those who have great faith... Those with great faith would think he responded even if he didn't, since people expect to see God in a nonconventional way, like through direct thoughts or miracles, yet thoughts can be fabricated and "miracles" happen every day. People are easily deluded, methinks.

* Not a direct quote, of course, but they capture the spirit well enough.
 
A

Aku Necromancer

Guest
Originally posted by Svenmonkey
"Oh, here have these commandments, all of which are about being good to folks. Oh, by the way, go exterminate your enemies. I've got this great idea called 'The Ban' that lets you be extremely cruel to everyone but your own race!"* And how about, "You aren't worshipping hard enough! Diiiiie!"*
Can you show me where these are located in The Bible? I know you said they are not direct, but you had to 'catch the spirit well enough' from somewhere.

anyways...God isnt cruel if he has repeatedly shown us the way out of committing evil and we ignore it. If your parents admonish you about the right way to do something, and you continually ignore or reject them, are they wrong for punishing you? Sin screws up everything. God knows what is right, unfortunately a lot of the time man doesn’t.

God is spiritually invisible to those who have no faith that he exists. I do think God responds,...I can't prove it, and you refuse to believe, I can only share what I believe is the truth. It is now between you and God.
 
S

Svenmonkey

Guest
This is a bit of a long post, but it proves my points I guess.

#1. Exodus 32: 9-10. "Let me alone, then, that my wrath may blaze up against them to consume them. Then I will make you a great nation."

#2. Exodus 32: 33-35. "The Lord answered, "Him only who has sinned against me will I strike out of my book. Now, go and lead the people whither I have told you. My angel will go before you. When it is time for me to punish, I will punish them for their sin." Thus the Lord smote the people for having had Aaron make the calf for them."

#3. Exodus 33: 1-3. "The Lord told Moses, "You and the people whom you have brought up from the land of Egypt, are to go up from here to the land which I swore to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob I would give to their descendants. Driving out the Canaanites, Amorites, Hittites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites, I will send an angel before you to the land flowing with milk and honey. But I myself will not go up in your company, because you are a stiff-necked people; otherwize I might exterminate your people on the way.""

#4. Numbers 5: 1-3. "The Lord said to Moses: "Order the Israelites to expel from camp every leper, and everyone suffering from a discharge, and everyone who has become unclean by contact with a corpse. Male and female alike, you shall compel them to go out of the camp; they are not to defile the camp in which I dwell." (This is the best one ever. It directly contradicts Jesus' teachings. I just decided to throw this one in to show that the God's a butt and probably had nothing to do with the guy who was actually nice, Jesus)

#5. Deuteronomy 7: 1-5 ""When the Lord, your God, brings you into the land which you are to enter and occupy, and dislodges great nations before you-the Hittites, Girga****es, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebuisites: seven nations more numerous and powerful than you-and when the Lord, your God, delivers him up to you and you defeat them, you shall doom them. Make no covenant with them and show them no mercy. You shall not intermarry with them, neither giving your daughters to their sons nor taking their daughters for your sons. For they would turn your sons from following me to serving other gods, and then the wrath of the Lord would flare up against you and quickly destroy you. But this is how you must deal wiht them: Tear down their altars, smash their sacred pillars, chop down their sacred poles, and destroy their idols by fire.""

Yes, that's right, the God of the Old Testament is a total anus. I mean, put him in a taxicab and he'll be mean to someone. I've got no problem with Jesus, but he was actually nice and was obviously unconnected to the absent God he supposedly served.

Oh, yeah, those are just a few passages that stood out to me, and I got tired of reading that terrible piece of literature a few books in, so that's not the full of it. I could not, unfortunately, find the passage describing the "ban." It was hilarious to see the Religion teachers in my school try to justify the Old Testament and make it sound like it has good intentions.

Note: I hand-typed this word for word from my "Family Bible," so there may be some small spelling errors which do not effect the message of a passage.
 
A

Aku Necromancer

Guest
Like I said, sin screws up everything. God is just and will not leave guilty sinners unpunished. (Ex. 34:6,7). He has both the right and responsibility to punish. You must realize, he hates sin and the workers of iniquity.

#4. Numbers 5: 1-3. "The Lord said to Moses: "Order the Israelites to expel from camp every leper, and everyone suffering from a discharge, and everyone who has become unclean by contact with a corpse. Male and female alike, you shall compel them to go out of the camp; they are not to defile the camp in which I dwell." (This is the best one ever. It directly contradicts Jesus' teachings. I just decided to throw this one in to show that the God's a butt and probably had nothing to do with the guy who was actually nice, Jesus)
There are various reasons for why this was done. My take: The camp was to be cleansed from sin,...The Bible holds that satan has power of nature, death and disease (The story of Job). Suffering and disease can all be linked to him. Its neccessary for them to cast out these people as a reminder that sin can do a number on anyone. I found this http://calvarychapel.com/simivalley/commentaries/Numbers05.htm
Which explains it a lot better than I can ever.

These may not be definitive answers,...but please, understand that there are parts of The Bible that are difficult to understand or dont make any sense. You talk about how Jesus was such a good man, well both God and Jesus are one and the same :)
 
D

DÛke

Guest
...

Filth. That is what it is. Filth.

You understand the Bible? No. Nobody does, except for the criminals who wrote it. You have an "opinion" about the Bible, you have an "outlook" about each word - you do not understand, and in no way feel what the words stand for, because you did not conceive them.

There is no need to recite the Bible as an example of bad faith, deception, and utter stench. It only takes an observation of those who call themselves "faithful," like Aku and Ericbess, and you can see the undertone of contradiction. A faith that requires me to be in my utmost selfish state, which Ericbess assumes as righteous? A faith that requires me to insist upon myself sinfulness? A faith that wants me to "confess?" A faith that disparages life, all of it, and leave one completely void of anything lively, even thought, even doubt, therefore, is sin and is punishable? A faith that demands stupidity?

And we call such a faith "holy" why?

I have no interest in arguing for or against the existence of God. But you people, you the faithful, you claim that you are not dogmatic, that you are not enslaving, yet you sustain the over-all web that is religion, the monster that invites hatred, division, competition even, and elitism.

Why do you call yourself "Christians" or "Muslims" or whatever, if you truly believed? Or do you need the tag to differentiate yourselves, to pretend that you are "better" in some way? I see no reason for the tag. All it does is sustain the filthy webs of religion, sustain its lies over everyone. It is not the act of the individual, but each individual, by naming himself a "something," he contributes blood and life to the bigger entity...

...and why?

Because they are all liars. It is not much about faith or God, but about having an "I."

And the beauty of all of this comes down to when I ask: so help me, how can I invite God to my life?

What is the answer?

Talk to any devout religious persona. About a 100% of the time you would see that they are literally stupid, have no self-esteem, no confidence, no faith in themselves, secret-prejudice, infantile infatuation with "miracles" and "unknowns" and "beyonds," fearful of debates and questions, and most of the time, they tend to "agree to disagree," which is something that only the pathetic utters due to their lack of common sense and, as noted, mental deficiency. More or less of them are patriotic (relates to their desperate longing for an “I," any "I"), and have a lot of morals, values, and rules which they claim to be solely their “opinion,” when secretly, they think it is the “truth,” and, above that, they think they are the righteous over many, and of course, claim to be “humble” and “modest,” when they are burning with the desire to bust out and be their own “I”s for once. They are consciously unconscious. They are usually extremely blinded by their government, those are the Western liars, but as for the Eastern liars, they bow down and kneel before their government even though they all hate their governments completely. All those sinners, who calls themselves "believers," they have a filthy sense of pride, and when you ask them “what for is this elitist pride of yours?” They begin to sing their unmusical songs of how “this” and “that,” but you look closer, and you would find nothing worthy of even being alive, much less, be proud for any reason! They tend to be noisy, because when they try to argue, they fail the argument 100% of the time, and so they opt to their “agree to disagree” or some new utility phrase that, I think, they all agreed to use as their “faith keeper.”

These people are the weak and lazy of society. They offer nothing but they bring us all their silly songs, of exhausted choirs, and unmusical melodies. They are the masochists of society.

They were disliked, so they reached to their faiths, which takes a stab, its powerful revenge against all of life, for example, when calling each and everyone a “sinner,” when demanding blindness and idiocy.

And who was Christ?

A son of a tramp, bare foot, filthy and unbathed…despised by society because of his smutty upbringing, so he invented himself as the “Son of God,” the “Alpha and the Omega,” the “First and the Last.” Today, with our advanced psychiatrists and psychological inquiry, we would call this “delusions of grandeur.” He, the Jew, the only – that’s right – only way to God? What a power-hungry, selfish little tick! “Only” way to God! Today, we call this “religious terrorism” and “faith obstruction,” for he, the dirt-bag, to claim to be the only stairway to “Heaven.” And what must one make of this?

That Christianity is utter filth, an extreme and bloody hatred to all of life, demeaning of the human spirit, fearful to an absurd point, weak, and by all means, demanding to be crucified, again and again.

And for this crucifixion, it applies to all the “prophets,” "religions," "holy" schams, and all those who follow.
 
A

Aku Necromancer

Guest
You understand the Bible? No. Nobody does, except for the criminals who wrote it. You have an "opinion" about the Bible, you have an "outlook" about each word - you do not understand, and in no way feel what the words stand for, because you did not conceive them.
The Bible is meant to bring a person into a deeper relationship with God, teaches importance of the Christian faith, and challanges how we live our life and relate to others. I will hold that some parts of The Bible are difficult to understand however.

A faith that requires me to insist upon myself sinfulness?
Would you admit that you have done wrong things (i.e. lie, cheat, steal, etc.) in the past?

A faith that wants me to "confess?"
Repent, believe, and live,...it is as easy and difficult as that.

A faith that disparages life, all of it, and leave one completely void of anything lively, even thought, even doubt, therefore, is sin and is punishable?
Are you sure you are talking about the Christian faith?

A faith that demands stupidity?
Do you think Im stupid?

I have no interest in arguing for or against the existence of God. But you people, you the faithful, you claim that you are not dogmatic, that you are not enslaving, yet you sustain the over-all web that is religion, the monster that invites hatred, division, competition even, and elitism.
Only in the most general terms is Christianity a religion. More
accurately,..it is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. It is no such monster.

And the beauty of all of this comes down to when I ask: so help me, how can I invite God to my life?
I think a person needs to give Gods word a fair chance, and spend time with it. And perhaps a step in the right direction can be taken, but once that step of faith has been taken, a whole new outlook on life opens up.

Talk to any devout religious persona. About a 100% of the time you would see that they are literally stupid, have no self-esteem, no confidence, no faith in themselves, secret-prejudice, infantile infatuation with "miracles" and "unknowns" and "beyonds," fearful of debates and questions, and most of the time, they tend to "agree to disagree," which is something that only the pathetic utters due to their lack of common sense and, as noted, mental deficiency. More or less of them are patriotic (relates to their desperate longing for an “I," any "I"), and have a lot of morals, values, and rules which they claim to be solely their “opinion,” when secretly, they think it is the “truth,” and, above that, they think they are the righteous over many, and of course, claim to be “humble” and “modest,” when they are burning with the desire to bust out and be their own “I”s for once. They are consciously unconscious. They are usually extremely blinded by their government, those are the Western liars, but as for the Eastern liars, they bow down and kneel before their government even though they all hate their governments completely. All those sinners, who calls themselves "believers," they have a filthy sense of pride, and when you ask them “what for is this elitist pride of yours?” They begin to sing their unmusical songs of how “this” and “that,” but you look closer, and you would find nothing worthy of even being alive, much less, be proud for any reason! They tend to be noisy, because when they try to argue, they fail the argument 100% of the time, and so they opt to their “agree to disagree” or some new utility phrase that, I think, they all agreed to use as their “faith keeper.”
Why do you limit this to just Christians? What about non-believers, what about people who say 'I looked so cool in front of my friends.' or 'Its one big lie and frankly silly.'

These people are the weak and lazy of society. They offer nothing but they bring us all their silly songs, of exhausted choirs, and unmusical melodies. They are the masochists of society.
Actually I find some Christian music to be beautiful.

They were disliked, so they reached to their faiths, which takes a stab, its powerful revenge against all of life, for example, when calling each and everyone a “sinner,” when demanding blindness and idiocy.
Again, it is nothing more than me saying everyone is guilty of doing error and offense. How is this revenge against life when I am sure most people would agree that they do acts of wrong. And who demands theis blindness and idiocy?

A son of a tramp, bare foot, filthy and unbathed…despised by society because of his smutty upbringing, so he invented himself as the “Son of God,” the “Alpha and the Omega,” the “First and the Last.” Today, with our advanced psychiatrists and psychological inquiry, we would call this “delusions of grandeur.” He, the Jew, the only – that’s right – only way to God? What a power-hungry, selfish little tick! “Only” way to God! Today, we call this “religious terrorism” and “faith obstruction,” for he, the dirt-bag, to claim to be the only stairway to “Heaven.” And what must one make of this?
His knowledge of the scriptures was remarkable, even more so at his young age. He could walk on water, multipy loaves of bread and speak the universe into existence. Knowing full well he would be persecuted. What do I make of this? God must truly love us to give up his only son for us.
 
D

DÛke

Guest
...
Aku:

The Bible is meant to bring a person into a deeper relationship with God, teaches importance of the Christian faith, and challanges how we live our life and relate to others. I will hold that some parts of The Bible are difficult to understand however.
I would burn all the Bibles from the world, all holy books, in fact, and all religious beliefs and disgusting opinions thereof. Let us examine the new generation of children, then, what? Do you call them blind? Do you call them "unknowing?" Do you call them unhappy, sinners, and all would be burned to ashes should they not "repent?" No. In fact, the new children would be more peaceful than you ever were, more peaceful than any man alive today, for they would not see the differences between each other or between "faiths." They, naturally, would ask, as young philosophers, of where they came from, and eventually, where all of humanity came from...and not knowing an answer, they would search for it themselves, and if they find the same answer, which is "God," then, they would not separate themselves, for the answer would be their answer, their "I," they need not call themselves anything, tag themselves with labels, values, and prices. White and Black they are, and they all are the same, for they see nothing different of each other, until you filthy Christians and Muslims, and "lovers of liberation," teach your exhausted history and headaches.

You say the Bible brings you closer to God. I wonder: does it bring you closer, or does it show you a God which you, as a consequence, feel the need to move closer to? And indeed, if your faith contained the slightest of truth in it, you would not need to look anywhere but, as all say, "your heart." But no. That is not good enough. You need the Bible, you need a holy book, because without it, you would lack a critical "Yes" which attributes much to your "I," you would be wanting, needing, searching for answer on your own...

...you would be...thinking. But who wants to think anymore? Who wants to busy himself with questions when a monstrous inventory of answers is already existent? Who dares ask "why" anymore. And by thus, how can we say that man is rational? What, is that a lie, another joke on the naive, the faint of heart?

...and when one needs not to think, I suppose you can still look me in the eye and tell me you are becoming, that you are proud of yourself and your desperately-obtained "I?" How daring, of you, would that be! But how all-too-unsurprising, for this pride that people hold up high to the sun is not like the pride that the thinker holds, because their pride, it is nothing more than an opinion, nothing they are willing to die for, for they do not believe them, not as much as the thinker has faith in himself...

...and does that not reflect the majority of people, who only can utter that "we are all equal?" Are we all equal? Is that another lie? Who of you truly believes that we are equal? No one believes that, yet they all subject the individual who dares fly higher to it! How hypocritical and dirty! What? I suppose we are equal in that we are all "Americans?" Or "Arabs?" Or "Christians?" Or "insert an institute here"...? If all those were seen as equal at all, just why do we have them differentiated, then? And finally, thus by, we can see how they are all liars once again, and it is all-too-natural of them to be such jokers and clowns, those foul-familiars, twin-faced jesters...
Aku:

Would you admit that you have done wrong things (i.e. lie, cheat, steal, etc.) in the past?”
Of course I would! But it is nothing I would pretend that would end me. We observe our “necessary evils,” like the government, and we see: do they not all operate on lies? Is not the primary requirement of a politician is to be the greatest charmer, actor, and liar? We look at our teachers, do they not lie to their students everyday? When they teach of the “righteousness” of this and the “wrongfulness” of that? For me to even pretend that lying is bad, for example, is for me to be “moral.” I have no morals, because where do morals come from, I ask, and I am left wanting of an answer. Some people say “God,” others say that they are a requirement for us to live in a socially active environment. Have I not discussed, yet, how we are not initially social animals, but fundamentally lonely animals? So what is the “wrong” here? Being socially acceptable is wrong. Where, in the Bible, does it say such a thing? Or is the Bible not deep enough to teach us that we are lonely, lonely, lonely creatures, desperately desperate? And of “cheating,” you speak, and again I can refer to politics, and now, marriage even. Does the husband cheat on his wife, or does he cheat on himself when he marries at all? Let us see: he marries, and most of the time, such a thing obstructs him, inverts him, “tames” him, where otherwise, he would be a free spirit, playing and thinking, marveling and laughing. And notice, how the married man, for example, cheats on his wife all the time, by reciting porn, others’ nudity, and even the mere thought of another sexual partner, is that not considered cheating? But we can ask, what is cheating: the suppression of man by marriage, or the man freeing himself from the disgust of marriage via other means, such as porn? What is cheating? Or does the Bible fail to tell us? Yes, all faiths fail to tells us, because they care not for the human psychology, but only on the exterior. And for this, I ask, you tell me that it is “god sent?” A god that does not know his own “children?” What a pitiful, pitiful, pitiful god…
Repent, believe, and live,...it is as easy and difficult as that.
Yes, and then after, I an go about my life, freely, unthinking, for I am “saved.” I can marvel in my sins, thus by, for I have already “repented.” I can even commit crimes, as long as I “confess.” How beautiful! And how immoral by your standards, yet you call all this moral! How laughable!
Aku:

Are you sure you are talking about the Christian faith?
I have shown your psychology! Does it matter which faith I am talking about? To you, it does – why? Because you think you are saved and righteous and true, while all others are sad and mad, needing your “prayers.” You are a sinner who is saved, and they are merely animals unsaved. Otherwise, you would ask: “is there any faith that is essentially as such?” But no, you were quick to be defensive, because it is your “I” that I am attacking, the very inventory of Yes and No. And in any event, no, I’m not talking about the Christian faith. I talk about all faiths. But for now, the Christian faith does what? Ask us to repent? And then? We can marvel in our filth. “We are saved,” we tell ourselves. And in any event, all faiths inspire stupidity, encourage it, and such pity, even rewards for it! What have you thought about ever since you found your “answer?” I assure you: nothing important. Nothing that the world cares about. Nothing that would solve anything. And we look at the “active” faithful character – even he is lacking, for he still submits to answers, not questions. He, of all people, for example, says that “No war! There is always a peaceful resolution! We have not proven anything against the enemy yet!” but he fails to ask “even if we prove the fact against our enemy, does not the enemy have the right to do what he wants, for we, ourselves, are doing what we want.” You see, even he is an idiot. A better idiot. But an idiot.
Aku:

Do you think Im stupid?
If I say “No,” you would not believe me. If I say “Yes,” you would not believe me. What is one to say?
Aku:
Only in the most general terms is Christianity a religion. More
accurately,..it is a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. It is no such monster.
They also say that about all religions. All of them.
Aku:
Why do you limit this to just Christians? What about non-believers, what about people who say 'I looked so cool in front of my friends.' or 'Its one big lie and frankly silly.'
I do not limit it to anyone. I have already attacked the few who call themselves “atheists.” Bring me a Muslim, for example, and you would enjoy me ripping him apart…
Aku:
Again, it is nothing more than me saying everyone is guilty of doing error and offense. How is this revenge against life when I am sure most people would agree that they do acts of wrong. And who demands theis blindness and idiocy?
Yes, but the “sin” you place on everyone calls for the monstrous “revenge” against all those who do not share your dogma. “Faith” is nothing more than disgust in life, and therefore, its revenge against it. It slanders. The believer, himself, demands idiocy of himself, for he dares not “ask” anymore, once he finds his precious little treasure. “I am right,” he says, and “I am right because I am,” and only therefore, everyone else is wrong. Should I recall the “I” parables again?
Aku:
His knowledge of the scriptures was remarkable, even more so at his young age. He could walk on water, multipy loaves of bread and speak the universe into existence. Knowing full well he would be persecuted. What do I make of this? God must truly love us to give up his only son for us.
And here I tell you that I can literarily shoot webs, have a blue and red custom, and can swing all over town, masked, fighting crime and injustice, using solely my web-slinging capabilities. Hey, it is all proven in the comics! Or have you not seen the movie yet? What is the difference between that and your “miracles?” One of them gives you an "I" where as the other gratifies it...
 
G

Gizmo

Guest
It is created (yes, created, not "given") to keep the standard people down, like a primitive version of the law with something that doesn't respond as the head of it, leaving it open to corrupt interpretation. I am pretty much decided on the issue, that religion is corrupt and there most likely isn't a God (and, as I've said before, if there was one I would tell it to leave me alone).
Pretty much my take on it. Very early, primitive, religions were really not much more than superstition - a red sun meant an angry god, and crops would fail - simply a case of Man seeing only small parts of a much larger and unseen physical system, and creating a relationship between those fragments that didnt really exist.

Organised religion, however, is just an early form of government. The law of god was just, in the absence of any serious police force, the best way of maintaining order - the death penalty if you broke the law, and intangible eternal reward if you followed it. The priesthood replaces the government/civil service, and donations and sacrifices replaced taxes. If you study politics you learn what the essential ingredients of a state are... what a state actually DOES... and a thousand years ago, that description matches organised religions perfectly.
Religion should be as obsolete as feudal smallholdings, but somehow it has found a dark crevice in human fears and used that to hold on. You need only look at the response that modern governments made to the religious bodies that operated within their state over the centuries. The reformation in Britain, the clash between Rome and the Vatican, the church and Hitler, the church and Stalin. Whenever a state decides it wants to have closer control over it`s population, it has to deal with the local religion... because they are like any other two creature who eat the same fruit - natural competitors.

Organised religion is simply a primitive form of government.
 
D

DÛke

Guest
...
Gizmo:

Organised religion is simply a primitive form of government.
And government is simply a primitive form of life.

I'm not an anarchist, because I do not see the "government" in the first place. It is so simple. What is a government's job? To represent its people. We look at today. Whose government represents the people?

And even then...can all people be represented? Never. The majority prevails.

But since stupidity is so common, it follows that the majority are always stupid, and therefore, all rules, values, and laws made are an origin of an idiots-led populace. The rest are simply chained, enslaved by the stupidity of others...by thier "values."

There needs to be a 180-degrees shift in perspectives, a complete paradigm shift...an alternation, a contra norma...
 
G

Gizmo

Guest
And government is simply a primitive form of life.
Meaningless nonsense. Explain yourself or dont make such stupid comments. How is a government in any way like a life form?

I'm not an anarchist, because I do not see the "government" in the first place.
Again, what does this mean? Nothing. You are using words you do not know the meaning of.

It is so simple. What is a government's job? To represent its people. We look at today. Whose government represents the people?

And even then...can all people be represented? Never. The majority prevails.
The concept that a government should represent it`s people is a relatively new one that has really only taken root outside a select few countries in the past 60 years. And even then the whole point of liberal democracy is that a government need only represent a majority of the voting percentage of the population. Typically an elected government in a liberal democracy can expect to have a mandate to represent about 30% of the total population.

But since stupidity is so common, it follows that the majority are always stupid, and therefore, all rules, values, and laws made are an origin of an idiots-led populace. The rest are simply chained, enslaved by the stupidity of others...by thier "values."
This is the failing of liberal democracy. If suffrage is expanded to the masses society is bound to follow the direction of the lowest common denominator... and as history has shown, the simple ears are too easily turned by a well-crafted tongue. Liberal democracies take control away from the elite who are best qualified to make the decisions and then give that power, not to The People, but to those who control the media and can sway public opinion to their own ends.

There needs to be a 180-degrees shift in perspectives, a complete paradigm shift...an alternation, a contra norma...
To what? You offer criticism without constructive elements - the actions of a child. Follow your statement through and tell us what you think is the right course.
If you do not you are nothing better than those stupid 'anti-capitalist' demonstrators who are anti-something without ever making a decision as to what they are actually 'pro'. They don't have an ideology, simply a void where one should be, and that they have no ideology simply reflects how futile they know their case is - when they know that they cannot win, why bother to waste time thinking about what they would do if you were to have control?
 
T

Tabasco

Guest
..Has not written the Bible there fore how can you say that they are God's words? They are his teaching seen in another person's eyes

I strongy believe in God and have reason to his teachings are an inspiration

The readings that yu dug up seem to sound like something from the Koran only twisted like Osama's point of view

How can one judge what one knows not??
 
A

Aku Necromancer

Guest
I would burn all the Bibles from the world
Deep in my heart,...I dont think you truly mean that.

You say the Bible brings you closer to God. I wonder: does it bring you closer, or does it show you a God which you, as a consequence, feel the need to move closer to? And indeed, if your faith contained the slightest of truth in it, you would not need to look anywhere but, as all say, "your heart." But no. That is not good enough. You need the Bible, you need a holy book, because without it, you would lack a critical "Yes" which attributes much to your "I," you would be wanting, needing, searching for answer on your own...
I know that Jesus, creator of the universe, is God, and died for us. But just knowing this is true belief, which comes from the heart, which God reads. He knows who believes from the heart and who doesn’t. And that’s what truly matters. If people want to claim I am weak for needing a crutch, for believing in God, so be it, but just remember I allow them not to believe, free from discrimination no less.

...you would be...thinking. But who wants to think anymore? Who wants to busy himself with questions when a monstrous inventory of answers is already existent? Who dares ask "why" anymore. And by thus, how can we say that man is rational? What, is that a lie, another joke on the naive, the faint of heart?
You can't mix faith and logic. But I bet I can also reason and think just as well as you can about most earthly matters.

...and does that not reflect the majority of people, who only can utter that "we are all equal?" Are we all equal? Is that another lie? Who of you truly believes that we are equal? No one believes that, yet they all subject the individual who dares fly higher to it! How hypocritical and dirty! What? I suppose we are equal in that we are all "Americans?" Or "Arabs?" Or "Christians?" Or "insert an institute here"...? If all those were seen as equal at all, just why do we have them differentiated, then? And finally, thus by, we can see how they are all liars once again, and it is all-too-natural of them to be such jokers and clowns, those foul-familiars, twin-faced jesters...
As Gods creation, we are all equal to him. He loves you no less than he loves me. This is the truth if the majority dont believe it or not.



Of course I would! But it is nothing I would pretend that would end me. We observe our “necessary evils,” like the government, and we see: do they not all operate on lies? Is not the primary requirement of a politician is to be the greatest charmer, actor, and liar? We look at our teachers, do they not lie to their students everyday? When they teach of the “righteousness” of this and the “wrongfulness” of that? For me to even pretend that lying is bad, for example, is for me to be “moral.” I have no morals, because where do morals come from, I ask, and I am left wanting of an answer. Some people say “God,” others say that they are a requirement for us to live in a socially active environment. Have I not discussed, yet, how we are not initially social animals, but fundamentally lonely animals? So what is the “wrong” here? Being socially acceptable is wrong. Where, in the Bible, does it say such a thing? Or is the Bible not deep enough to teach us that we are lonely, lonely, lonely creatures, desperately desperate? And of “cheating,” you speak, and again I can refer to politics, and now, marriage even. Does the husband cheat on his wife, or does he cheat on himself when he marries at all? Let us see: he marries, and most of the time, such a thing obstructs him, inverts him, “tames” him, where otherwise, he would be a free spirit, playing and thinking, marveling and laughing. And notice, how the married man, for example, cheats on his wife all the time, by reciting porn, others’ nudity, and even the mere thought of another sexual partner, is that not considered cheating? But we can ask, what is cheating: the suppression of man by marriage, or the man freeing himself from the disgust of marriage via other means, such as porn? What is cheating? Or does the Bible fail to tell us? Yes, all faiths fail to tells us, because they care not for the human psychology, but only on the exterior. And for this, I ask, you tell me that it is “god sent?” A god that does not know his own “children?” What a pitiful, pitiful, pitiful god…
This is by far not true. God knows his own children, very well. Remember he came down to earth, and was human for years. He knows what it is like, that is why he gave us ways of avoiding sin and overcoming it. Its not easy discussing this because you dont accept God and his word. But, as a believer, I can see the difference from right and wrong. Its as easy as looking at what Jesus did and said.

Yes, and then after, I an go about my life, freely, unthinking, for I am “saved.” I can marvel in my sins, thus by, for I have already “repented.” I can even commit crimes, as long as I “confess.” How beautiful! And how immoral by your standards, yet you call all this moral! How laughable!
Unthinking from what? The Bibles holds that a Christian can sin unto death, but like I said God knows who belongs to him.

I have shown your psychology! Does it matter which faith I am talking about? To you, it does – why? Because you think you are saved and righteous and true, while all others are sad and mad, needing your “prayers.” You are a sinner who is saved, and they are merely animals unsaved. Otherwise, you would ask: “is there any faith that is essentially as such?” But no, you were quick to be defensive, because it is your “I” that I am attacking, the very inventory of Yes and No. And in any event, no, I’m not talking about the Christian faith. I talk about all faiths. But for now, the Christian faith does what? Ask us to repent? And then? We can marvel in our filth. “We are saved,” we tell ourselves. And in any event, all faiths inspire stupidity, encourage it, and such pity, even rewards for it! What have you thought about ever since you found your “answer?” I assure you: nothing important. Nothing that the world cares about. Nothing that would solve anything. And we look at the “active” faithful character – even he is lacking, for he still submits to answers, not questions. He, of all people, for example, says that “No war! There is always a peaceful resolution! We have not proven anything against the enemy yet!” but he fails to ask “even if we prove the fact against our enemy, does not the enemy have the right to do what he wants, for we, ourselves, are doing what we want.” You see, even he is an idiot. A better idiot. But an idiot.
Of course everyone who doesnt not accept there creator needs our prayers. Why? This is gonna tick you off, but Hell is filled right now with honest, truthful, sincere, charitable, merciful and kind people. they forgot one thing: Salvation through faith in Christ. What if Im telling you this because I care for you? Have you ever considered that perhaps I might be right? That I am trying to save you? How and where does my faith encourage stupidity? And what have you thought about that makes it more important?

If I say “No,” you would not believe me. If I say “Yes,” you would not believe me. What is one to say?
Which ever you say, I will believe you. :)

Yes, but the “sin” you place on everyone calls for the monstrous “revenge” against all those who do not share your dogma. “Faith” is nothing more than disgust in life, and therefore, its revenge against it. It slanders. The believer, himself, demands idiocy of himself, for he dares not “ask” anymore, once he finds his precious little treasure. “I am right,” he says, and “I am right because I am,” and only therefore, everyone else is wrong. Should I recall the “I” parables again?
I do not understand why you think Christianity demands stupidity. Again, do you think I am stupid? If you found the answer, it ends there, why search more, you found what you were looking for. Jesus said, "It is finished." (John 19:30). He has done all that is necessary. There are no more trials to blaze, no works to be added, no morality to employ, no religion to follow. Simple faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross is "the way, the truth and the life." You keep making it sound like it is something that is terrible, but it is NOT!

And here I tell you that I can literarily shoot webs, have a blue and red custom, and can swing all over town, masked, fighting crime and injustice, using solely my web-slinging capabilities. Hey, it is all proven in the comics! Or have you not seen the movie yet? What is the difference between that and your “miracles?” One of them gives you an "I" where as the other gratifies it...
...yes, but as Spiderman, can you save my soul? :)
 
A

Aku Necromancer

Guest
Originally posted by Tabasco
..Has not written the Bible there fore how can you say that they are God's words? They are his teaching seen in another person's eyes

I strongy believe in God and have reason to his teachings are an inspiration
Wrong Tony,..those are Gods words. However man wrote them down. It is not the authors perspective, If all scripture is not divinely inspired and accurately recorded by the various authors, then the Bible is a useless book. All we're left with is a pick and choose theology without knowing which is and which isn't. A little truth here, a little error there? How are we to know what's true and what isn't?
 
G

Gizmo

Guest
I dont think theres much of a valid case for taking any of the bible literally, as a factual account of what actually happened. What it DOES contain is a strong moral guideas to how to live a 'good' life.

You can find value in the bible even if you dont believe a word of it. Perhaps the best way to see the bible, and indeed most holy scripture, is as an early form of the now popular self-help book.
 
A

Aku Necromancer

Guest
Originally posted by Gizmo
I dont think theres much of a valid case for taking any of the bible literally, as a factual account of what actually happened. What it DOES contain is a strong moral guideas to how to live a 'good' life.

You can find value in the bible even if you dont believe a word of it. Perhaps the best way to see the bible, and indeed most holy scripture, is as an early form of the now popular self-help book.
Is there a reason why a Christian wouldnt take it literally?

And I agree with you that anyone can find value with it. Do you think that it should be given a fair chance? Upon which one could understand why a person would shape his life after it?
 
G

Gizmo

Guest
Taking the bible literally goes beyond faith and out into madness. So much of the Bible has been proven to be wrong that it is pure delusion to pretend that it has any worth as a literal text.

If you wish to live your life by the Bible, I cannot fault you - the moral guide the Bible gives is probably as valid as any other. But believing that the stories it tells are actually true is another matter. I follow the ten commandments (albeit loosely at times, no doubt like most christians)... but not because God told me to, but because they make sense to me as a good guide to life.

Really, in the end, I feel that there's something horribly venal about the way the Bible presents it`s morals. It assumes that people will only live a good life if they are bribed to do so with promises of eternal fortune and simultaneously threatened with fire and brimstone should they falter from the path. Inevitably, christians are painted by their own book of faith as selfish, cruel, and self-serving people who will only behave well when the carrot and stick are wielded freely.
 
S

Shiro, Time Devourer

Guest
Originally posted by Aku Necromancer
You can't mix faith and logic. But I bet I can also reason and think just as well as you can about most earthly matters.
www.str.org may change your mind about the faith & logic part. Greg Houkl does a pretty good job.

Anyone who reads Stand to Reason, and still thinks Christianity demands stupidity, isn't being intellectually honest with themselves about the issue.

Originally posted by Gizmo
So much of the Bible has been proven to be wrong that it is pure delusion to pretend that it has any worth as a literal text.
How do you know that such 'proofs' aren't as biased and fallacious as the reasoning of people who think rock and roll is the devil's music? Or Jack Chick's infamous tirade against D&D?

Edit for Gizmo: You made my point, ironically. There is a lot of practical teaching in the Bible, so it's foolish to dismiss it. Also, looking at the account of Revelation, I conclude that to take everything in the bible literally is folly, but to understand where the literals, figuratives and parables are in the Books will grant a much better understanding of the Word in general.
 
Top