I'm going to Hell for this...

[Thallid Ice Cream Man]

Originally posted by DÛke
What's the difference between you and anyone else who claims to be doing things on "their own?"

What I know is the difference between you and anyone else who claims to be doing things on their own...
You're using up bandwidth to fault us for it.

 

[FmK-AnC]

Duke what do you want me to say? you want me to show you all the flaws in the bible or something? im not here to do that, im simply here to express my opinion, nothing more. Im not here to say "your wrong, your right" i dont have anything to say in my defense. I just dont belive, nothing more nothing less. im not here to say whats right and not, im not here to change anyones opinion, im not here to back up my beliefs, or non beliefs in my case. I am just here to say what i think

-AnC

 

[Darkstar]

Well honestly I feel the same way Fmk... I dont really care what other ppl think say or do... as long as I am not criticized... which I am sometimes when I enter a conversation about the subject. So I get medieval on their hiney's, or just tell em to **** off... they have every right to criticize but I dont have to listen to it. So in short... who cares what other ppl do? Its their own buisness and their business alone... unless they choose to share or whatever.

 

[DÛke]

...

TICM - at least I'm "using up bandwidth" with a sincere will to inquire, where as some others use it simply to, um, "spam." I am on topic, here, and as long as I am, I think I'm doing justice to the thread. Maybe you should have a little chat with those who reply to the thread, adding nothing constructive to the topic? I can name them, if you want...

FmK-AnC - I want you to say nothing. Did you not read the post directed to you? I told you - anyone can claim anything - it makes no difference to me or to the world. What makes a difference is the will to empower the beliefs with will. So you've stated your opinion? So what? Are you done? If all you wanted to do is state your opinion, then by all means, you are done...

Darkstar -

Darkstar:

Its their own buisness and their business alone... unless they choose to share or whatever.

You and FmK chose to share, so I thought I had the right to criticize.

Darkstar:

So in short... who cares what other ppl do?

Indeed who cares - that's the attitude I find very filthy. Where some of us care, others simply do not. But you know, I respect you a lot for admitting that you do not care - I really do. After all, what would happen if we all cared? We don't want that to happen!

 

[Darkstar]

Well considering no one cares for me... I guess I was speaking for myself then...

 

[Svenmonkey]

Originally posted by DÛke:
Maybe you should have a little chat with those who reply to the thread, adding nothing constructive to the topic? I can name them, if you want...

I really don't see you adding anything constructive to the topic. In fact, I'd say you were just trying to break down everyone's belief systems and use your own as the example of moral perfection or something, which is rather destructive.

Anyway, I have a few simple things to say. The whole deal with atheists and theists, (though we're a bit past that, I guess) and your opinion that we should all be neutral in the debate of atheist vs. theist (that's what I gathered that your opinion was, anyway) was all started by the theists, and it's nearly impossible to stay neutral. Since one is constantly confronted with theism by our overwhelmingly theist society, one can not logically stay neutral to it. You can try, and maybe pretend to still be searching for an answer or something, but it's all just make-believe. Now, one might search for a god or something if society didn't shove it in your face constantly. One must either believe or not believe, methinks.

Now, that was just my confused opinion and that probably makes no sense to anyone but me. Yippee.

 

[DÛke]

...

Again, I must sigh.

How many times do I have to say it?

I am, without the slightest of doubts, the stupidest person in here. I am simply here to learn from you all - but I must hear a voice that does not hurt my ears, that is, a voice that does not conflict with itself...and so far there is not any.

I am the child, trust me, and you all are the teachers.

Sven:

I really don't see you adding anything constructive to the topic. In fact, I'd say you were just trying to break down everyone's belief systems and use your own as the example of moral perfection or something, which is rather destructive.

This is a topic, and I am debating aren't I? At least I'm on topic at all! Use my "own" belief system - what would that be? What's my own belief system? In case you haven't gathered from all of the above, that I have not a "belief system." Please, do tell me, inform of my belief system - I honestly want to know! And if you cannot, why must you suggest that I do have a belief system - is it simply to confuse me, to drag me into your world? And what is your world? Let us examine:

Sven:

Since one is constantly confronted with theism by our overwhelmingly theist society, one can not logically stay neutral to it

And to have such a belief, how wrong can one be? To claim that one has no control over his own beliefs...how unwilled! I want you to admit, now, that you have no sense of will, because that is what you imply. Or I suppose that you are only half-willed, the other half being drowned in, raped by society? What is only half-will? It is not will at all...and I am supposed to even entertain the thought that you are an individual, that you make your own choices! Is this the belief you want me to hold on to - is this the world you suggest I dive in? Or if not, you better be ready to tell me what is my belief system...or were you confused? Or what am I supposed to think of you?

Sven:

You can try, and maybe pretend to still be searching for an answer or something, but it's all just make-believe.

Make-believe? No sir - I am searching for answers. There is nothing of pretense in here. You appear sad, to me, if you want my sincere word, for you claim that to desire knowledge is made-believe - I can, justly, dismiss you as unknowledgeable...yet still, I would be haunted by a noise that tells me that I should respect people like that, those who have no hope, no will, and no knowledge! What a tragedy they are, and what a tragedy is it that we are made to be affectionate to those of such pitiful qualities, such slaves!

 

[Darkstar]

word dawg... sha fizzle dat nizzle! Sven dont know what hes even trying to defend... if he is even doing that... could be just a flaming...

Jk sven... but your point is bleak

 

[Svenmonkey]

Originally posted by DÛke:
I can, justly, dismiss you as unknowledgeable...yet still, I would be haunted by a noise that tells me that I should respect people like that, those who have no hope, no will, and no knowledge! What a tragedy they are, and what a tragedy is it that we are made to be affectionate to those of such pitiful qualities, such slaves

Oh, I have will and knowledge, but no hope. There's nothing to hope for, as I see it. I don't carry on any search for nirvana or absolute knowledge or anything because, quite obviously, it has never been done and never will be. What's the point? I'm going to go be bored and wile away the hours on my computer.

Oh, how my opinions change as my moods do.

 

[Darkstar]

Total hours and counting: eight

 

[DÛke]

...

Sven, your words imply that you have niether will nor knowledge, but now you say that you do. What am I supposed to believe?

We know that you have no hope.

What do you have, exactly?

You have been limited by these choices: "believe" or "do not believe." (As I see them, they are: "believe" or "believe."); the reality you observe is the reality you are wanted to see, so limited, trapped, caged by the society that you claim to detest - when I offer you the simple advice of "break away," you laugh. You have the will, but it does not seem that you wish to use it. I suppose I can talk to you, maybe try to make you see some things more clearly, but then you accuse me of being "superior," of being "better," and some nonsense like that; additionally, you observe this as meaningless - what is it that you want?

 

[Svenmonkey]

What I want is to live an entertaining life and then maybe die rather dramatically.

And I'm not limited by "believe" or "do not believe" but in a few matters. I choose my own beliefs, though they're influenced by others, just like anyone else.

By the way, that whole "superior" matter was about how you act like you're a higher life form or something, though you're just another one of us.

 

[Darkstar]

I think i am lower than the rest of u guys if it matters any... mainly cuz i have the worst case of love sickness and boozing than anyone i know. Ah the joys of being ***** whipped

Now thats what i worship

 

[DÛke]

...

I'm not one of you. I am below all of you...worse...under. I already said I'm stupider, that I am the student and you all are the teachers...

...what more can I say?

Sven:

I choose my own beliefs, though they're influenced by others, just like anyone else.

Yes, everyone "chooses their own belief." Anyone can claim that. I suppose it's part of being delusional.

 

[Svenmonkey]

It's quite true that one chooses his or her own beliefs. If people didn't, they'd all be the same. Everyone is, however, influenced by different things in different ways, leading to a belief system that is quite unique, yet resembling those of the major "role models" of the person, and therefore leading to a society full of people with similar morals. Similar is quite far from identical.

 

[DÛke]

...

If those beliefs were even half believed, than no one would be offended, no one would be angered, when an opposing opinion presents itself. But no, on the contrary, the truth morphs and falters, even negate itself...how truthful is it?

Beliefs that can be broken? What a joke.

Truth that changes?

Morals and beliefs that oppose themselves?

And you tell me that people "believe" at all? People do not know what to believe...hence, they thieve their beliefs from others, and not even be satisfied with those beliefs, but still rather have doubt, hence their contradictions. People are confused, sad, and lonely...they want to belong to anything...anything...a love, a friendship, a political party, a religious cult...whatever it is...anything to drown in, to ignore their inability to think at all...

 

[Chaos Turtle]

If anyone ever finds out The Truth, I mean The Real Undeniable Proof of Truth, please get a picture, maybe an interview or you could stick it in a box maybe and send it to me? I'm dying to find out What It Is.

 

[FmK-AnC]

Originally posted by Svenmonkey
It's quite true that one chooses his or her own beliefs. If people didn't, they'd all be the same.

Sven no one chooses their own beliefs, at all. if we did, everyone would have theyre own religion instead of being christain, atheist, budist, muslim, jewish, etc etc. So you are quite wrong in that area, no one chooses. I admit i "follow" but not to be like aethiests, only for my own reason. I think the reason people are religius is beacause its been shoved in theyre face since they were born... how many people do you know that have a kid and are like, There is no god, god isnt real, god doesnt exist... none? i didnt think so its beacause everyone is taught theyre is a god, in schools, in stores, with money, with life. than when they reach that age where they do choose, they choose, be that age 10, 15, 30, 60... but its all the same no matter what.

-AnC

 

[DÛke]

...

Chaos Turtle...

If someone would walk up to you, and tells you the Truth - the unmorphing, the undeniable, the greatest Truth of Life...

...how would you react? I can assure you, many people would dismiss it as nonsense, and rather embrace something more subjective, more personal, more unique, something that fits into their whims, thier beliefs. If the single utmost truth would strike mankind at any given moment, people would quickly speak of its "crime," of its injustice, of its evil...

...not simply because it is criminal, unjust, or evil; not because it is even dark. On the contrary, because it would not fit into whatever they have been taught - it would make them look stupid, like they really are - remind them how ignorant we all are...

...it would rid of all illusions, all fantasies of life...all noise...all values...

...and people would resist it.

It's not about whether there is a God or not anymore...if God morphed into a man for a night, the believers would be the first ones to burn him, to drown him, jail him.

To realize that there is a truth out there...to know that there is a chance for peace...to understand that one has the will to control many things in life - how little would we seem, how baffled by the mystery! Why use freewill, when you can depend on government, religion, laws, and morals? Why demand peace when one's own values is all that matters - "as long as I am happy, who cares?" And why search for the Truth, when we are in contentment, in joy, happy with our illusions?

I can, now, simply say that I "believe in God," that I am a "moralist," that I am a "democrat," and there you have it...I have killed myself in the hope of calming myself. Why think, at that point, when I am all those great things?

FmK:

no one chooses their own beliefs, at all. if we did, everyone would have theyre own religion

Everyone does have his own religion - hence, each Christian has a different idea of God than his fellow Christians - each his own belief, his own fetish. The same with all beliefs. I believe, sir, that you are wrong here. They, simply, all have been tagged under a name, such as "Christianity" -- in reality, each person has his own ideas and ideals. There is no unity in belief...but we are all united by the wanting of Truth. Some people are exhausted, so they take rest with mirages, such as "atheism" and "religion," others just search...

 

[Mazzak]

Existence is a joke. God is a joke. People are a joke.

The joke goes like this:


Divinity: My dog has no nose.

Humanity: Then how does he smell?

Divinity: Awful!


To be an atheist or a theist is to have your proverbial head up your proverbial arse.

To prove this, here is an analysis of the joke when the word "humanity" is replaced with a member of one of those two systems.

Atheist

Divinity: My dog has no nose.

Atheist: Shut up, I don't believe in you, I don't need your authority! Get any closer and I'll hit you with something! I bet you cut your dog's nose off you crazy mo-fo!

Divinity: Geez, loosen up kid, I was just telling you a joke.

Theist

Divinity: My dog has no nose.

Theist: O lord, I praise thee so, notice how I am kneeling, please forgive me my sins, oh please listen to my prayers oh lord, do not damn me for I am but a simple pathetic soul. Amen.

Divinity: Geez, loosen up kid, I was just telling you a joke.


Also, agnostics are not much better, being just theists with impure belief.

Divinity: My dog has no nose.

Agnostic: Dude... so you exist?

Divinity: Umm, yes. So, my dog...

Agnostic: O lord, I praise thee so, notice how I am kneeling, please forgive me my sins, oh please listen to my prayers oh lord, do not damn me for I am but a simple pathetic soul. Amen.

Divinity: Not again... <slaps forehead>


So it becomes obvious that all the major recognized "belief system" categories cause one to miss the point entirely.
The point?

It's all a joke. Take it seriously and you miss the laugh.