For you new people: Names

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DÛke

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...the problem is, people are not aware of their senses, that's right, not aware of their own, current senses.

Again, for the third time, I didn't say I dont' believe in science and some of the great laws it has created, but, I do doubt science's power. There are a lot, and I mean a lot, of things science can't explain. You can't tell me that everything in the universe has to be "scientifically" expalined. It just can't be. There HAS to be something phenomenon that can't not, and should not, and will not, be explained.

Science is great, but humanity shouldn't be based on it.
Some of the more great stuff about humans is that they have a great mind of their own, a great sense of awareness, a great sense of power, and great place they are living in. What science do is, sometimes, corrupt those senses, corrupt your knowledge, corrupt your personal believes, it will, either distor or ignore to an extent, a specific theory, knowledge, or new/old findings.

Science is not what humans are about, but humans have chosen to base themselves on it: on the technology, which, is not the best path that was avaliable.

Science is great, but not enough.
To get the "enough" we must use ourselves, and not some scientifically "prooven" or "done" theory or mechanic.

Again, for the fifth time:), I believe in science, but I will never, EVER, base MYself on it.

"Humans use 21-23 percent of their brain power, it is a scientifically prooven fact...Do YOU ever wonder where the heck is the other 80 or so percent?"
 
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Duel

Guest
the thing is, you may be worried that a fuure with science may turn out like 1984, but I know that our past, WITHOUT science, did the same thing. In fact, it was with the advent of science and free communication that secrets become much harder to conceal.
Science has, to my knowledge, never been use as a caste weapon. It has never been lorded over one group by another. It CAN'T be. When microsoft tried to do a similar thing in a VERY localized field (computer operating systems) look what happened! I don't mean the lawsuit. I mean Linux. People took this in their own hands and it worked.
The Death Rate now is lower than ever in history. Even if you attribute the wars to science, which isn't their cause, it obviously isn't hurting us that much, as we are growing hugely in population. Science has done more for the human race than anything, and it's RIDICULOUS to hear someone ON THE INTERNET explaining how science is bad for the community, or will be.

You eat your meat raw, I take it?
 
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DÛke

Guest
...and it's not working at all.
Yes, I eat my meat RAW...I'm that stupid.

You think I'm talking about this science?
I'm talking about more complex, much, more, complex, science.
Not computers, micorwaves, and all that little stuff.

Death Rate? Low? LOL!
That's the funniest thing I have ever heard.
Sure, it's low, but when it explodes, it EXPLODES!

Humans are HUNGRY for science, and that's the truth.
Humans devour science, it's a drug: T.N.T for the brain.

In many, many years, there lived a happy little world:
it was developing scientifically. They tought the basics of mathematics in school, but forgot about the rest: for, the rest,
was inside some computers' memmory. Over the years, less, and less math was tought, since, more and more was saved in that computers' memmory. Many, many, many years later, the math was "just another thing", since ALL of it was saved in that computers' memmory.
Many, many, many years later, the computer exploded! The memmories were lost! The generation was math-illerterates! The basics are lost, the complex was gone! The generation had no knowledge about this information since they were counting on that computers' memmory.

Now, the human race will have to restart from scratch, from 1+1=2(or is that 3?). The so called "revolutionary age" will "RE"begin, AGAIN! The Dark Ages, Middle Ages, and the Revolution will restart, and humans will be "developing" again, what they ALREADY KNOW!
 
H

Hawaiian mage

Guest
Well wouldn't that be the perfect chance to rediscover the uncharted parts of the mind?
 
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DÛke

Guest
...you are begging to see what I'm trying to say:)!

When all that happens, you know what people would do, they will choose the same path they choose many years ago.
What we are now, is, bascially, what we were some other time...We tripped on something, and we were reset. What we have is what we should have had. What we're discovering is what we should already know.

We'll choose the same path, over, and over again, making the same mistakes, and coming back here, where we are now.

"And they say we learn from out past..."
 
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Jaws10387

Guest
According to Webster:
Technology: science of mechanical and industrial arts

Science: systematic knowledge of natuaral or physical phenonena truth ascertained by observation, experiment and induction. The definition goes on for another 6 lines. So science is not the future nor is it the past or present. It is knowledge. By some of the comments I could swear some of you guys are fundamentalists.
 
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Apollo

Guest
I think this discussion is kinda dumb, so I won't get involved. I did want to comment on one thing, however:

Over the years, less, and less math was tought, since, more and more was saved in that computers' memmory.
Click to expand...
Nope, this isn't how it'll work. You see, no matter whether it matters or not, they will still teach the stuff. Even if it's completely unnecessary, they will still teach it. That's why my teacher will make me do the quadratic equation on my paper even though I've been doing it for years and have created a program on my calculator to do it for me (I won't debate the merits of this). That's also why you have to memorize the name of the guy that ripped off the Aztec indians during the Age of Exploration, even though this information will never matter in your lifetime.

So your scenario doesn't pan out, because even if all of this information is in the computer, they will still teach it.

Besides, you'd have to awfully dumb to store all of your information in one computer.

Apollo
 
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DÛke

Guest
...you seem to miss the point.

That was just a story of how technology is related to stupidity in many ways.

Well, I don't know anymore.
I can't say anything more(here).
I'm just going to shut up for now.

Well, I told you what I think, and as a summary:

"We are smart enough to discover, but not smart enough to realize.
We are smart enough to invent, but not smart enough to realize.
We are smart enough, but, we are not smart enough, to, realize.
There's more to it you know...Much, much more! We don't even know half of the story..."
 
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Duel

Guest
Duke, here's the thing, you are being ignorant, and proud of your ignorance. Life wasn't good before science, and you know as well as I do that that's true.
Percentagewise, the plagues and famines that swept earth were worse to the population than ANY war so far. The black plague killed 1/2 of the population of china, and over 1/4 of Eurasia. No war can make that claim. Science cured that.
The wars still happened back then, science didn't start that. Science didn't made bigger weapons: soldiers made bigger weapons. It was the saying of sparta that anything athens dreams up can be turned to war. Science has been hugely more helpful than harmful, and the fact that you deny it shows how powerful willfull ignorance is.
Science has saved more lives than it has harmed, and lives are spent more comfortably now.
Technology is the greatest device man has. Going back to nature or denying this will get you NOWHERE.
 
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FoundationOfRancor

Guest
This is all kinda interesting.

Duel: You are right. I however, agree with duke that life was better without the modern science. But that ties into my religion (yes duel, I do take all the death into consideration)
Im not gonna explain waht it is on a thread, cuz its long, but if anyone wants to know...just PM me.

*Bows*
Carry on!
 
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Duel

Guest
Well, I wanna know what you meant, 'cause I like the internet and clean water and toilet paper.
 
C

Cateran Emperor

Guest
Cripes, I'm just gonna leave here now. This got waaaaaaaaaaaaay out of hand. One final note to Duel: I don't care just how much you say life sucks without science. I for one would rather go sit under a tree and relax or walk through the woods than go toy with a computer all day. Now just so you know, I'm no longer checkiung this thread, so responding to this won't do any good ;)
 
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DÛke

Guest
Emperor, YOU are checking this thread, you're just not typing in it any longer. You know you gonna read this:), infact, you're reading this right, about, um, NOW:)!

FoR, I don't know, but, my mind is been telling me of someone, someone, um, who's called, possible, um...I don't know, someone, other than Cate...Hmmmm, how about JEN! Who's Jen? What's the kinfe for? She doesn't look scared anyway!

Apollo, my mind, is telling me that, you, recently, just joined an alternate site...related...to...Magic...in some way...You didn't register as Apollo...you...um, registered as your real name!

Multani, you...you...are...um...MAD! You tried joining, but "Multani" is already taken! Don't be mad John!

I know more...

Back into sub-topic.
We have to end this.

It's going to be a flame war soon, between me and Duel or something, and I don't want that to happen. Dismissed.

"If we're following our mind, we should just glide through life...
Noone knows if there'll be an answer, while we morph, through, time..."
 
S

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Does this mean the subject's closed? Everyone's tired about talking about it?

Maybe the "weekday" guys (me, Whimsy, Rando, anyone else) would want to talk about it... *sulk*

On-Topic: Just call me Spidey! ;)

Well, I don't know if this is a dead horse yet, but out of all of those posts one thing still stuck in my mind: DUke, that think about people only using 20% or so of their brain is a fallacy. The quote was either taken out of context or just false... off the top of my head, I think it has been shown that when you hook up all those electrode thingies to someone's brain, there's a LOT more than 20% usage going on. If you're REALLY interested I can try to find out where I got it from...

Short opinion if anyone cares: I believe in science and technology. Things were worse before it; different things can cause it to get worse in the future. However, it's the attitude of people/society that cause the misuse of science/technology: fire can warm but fire can burn.
 
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Whimsical

Guest
<clutches head after giving the whole thread a read-through> Ow, ow, ow. This discussion makes me feel like I've wandered into some coffee-shop full of philosophers. <laughs> It also has the added effect of giving moi nightmares about mah old Mage: The Ascenscion playing days. <plops down on a seat> One quadro-espresso, please! I think I'm going to need it... ;)

Technology, science, the human brain... it's a good thing the fallacy of religion was never mentioned.

To elaborate a bit on mister Wallcrawler sir's thoughts (and yes, we do care about your opinions, Spidey dahling) ... technology is never inherently evil (though some meta-philosophers would beg to differ). Technology can provide both boon and bane ... it's entirely up to the users which result they want.

To illustrate (using two favorite Mage archetypes)...

New World Order Mage - Technology is helpful! Look at all the results! Increase in life span, a drop in mortality rates...

Cult of Ecstasy Mage - Taxes, overpopulation, pollution, a way to destroy the world outright...

NWO - The price of progress! And I'm not referring in any way to the Magic (TM) card! With further advances, we can eliminate those problems you just mentioned.

C of X - And create new ones in the process...

NWO - The price of progress.

C of X - Yeah, yeah. Technology stifles the mind! Technology corrupts! It's a tool to lock the paradigm of this world to YOUR particular viewpoints, thus strangling out any others!

NWO - Hah! Look at the hypocrite! <gives a pointed glance at the walkman blaring music into the C of X's ears> You denounce technology while reaping its benefits!

C of X - Technocrat!

NWO - Luddite!

C of X - Slave to the machine!

NWO - Primitive being!

C of X - Rat-racer!

NWO - Hippie scum!

<at this point, the semi-coherent argument dissolves into a certamen duel with vulgar magic flying everywhere>


Both sides have their points. We could argue about this until we're old and gray ... and achieve about as much as those two Magi. Or we could talk about something else...

So ... drooling over Invasion yet? :D

[Edited by Whimsical on September 18th, 2000 at 09:44 AM]
 
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Gizmo

Guest
I just think it`s hard to bring a Tradition viewpoint to bear on our own reality, it`s fine in Mage, but some seriously off the wall paradigms seem to exist in this discussion. I seem to be just about the only person here who thinks Humans have two legs, talk to each other by using vocal chords to create vibrations in the air which are interpreted by another person`s inner ear. That the colour red is in fact red, and not the smell of horse chestnuts. And that the earth exists at all, as is not a creation of our own egos.
 
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Whimsical

Guest
Obviously ... mister Gizmo sir here plays Mage.

<gives Gizmo a friendly bip on the head for putting so many leading tidbits in his last post> Bad, bad Gizmo! <laughs> Those little snippets you mentioned are almost guaranteed to spark a meta-physical argument about 'em.

Maybe you should've put a warning on that post ... "Warning: Not to be read while under the influence of alcohol or any other mind-influencing products. Yes, painting the walls and reading this post at the same time is strictly forbidden." :D

Arguments like this make me want to look for a cold brewski... ;)
 
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