fine tuned straight burn

[Spiderman]

When you're pretty much the only one here doing it, you're "unique"

Anyway, why most of the users here follow the lists is up for grabs, but since we had the conversation already (or one like it), again, it's pretty much because even though it's not part of the game rules, it's a constant that you can usually (more often than not) trust when you face a stranger playing (without asking). It just makes things easier.

 

[Oversoul]

I don't know why you think that when you face a stranger they would follow the Type I B/R list. I have NEVER faced a stranger that did so intentionally (I've faced lots of scrubs whose decks were probably Type I legal, but also happened to be terrible decks with no hope of winning against anything except maybe a draft deck or highlander deck). Most players I've faced are either not aware of what Type I is, or not aware of exactly how it works...

I do not think that it would somehow be more fair if I beat some stranger with Type I Rectal Agony, as opposed to beating that same stranger with Visificationnessity...

 

[mythosx]

well, before I start with anyone...I make sure they understand what we are playing...That includes telling them type 1 or vintage....almost 100% of the people I play with know of what type 1 is and thats usually what I play.

 

[Spiderman]

Ditto. Anyone I asked to play at a Prerelease outside of our game matches, we agreed whether to play Standard or Type 1/Vintage/Classic and we didn't have to go into what was banned or restricted because we already knew from the format.

 

[Oversoul]

Well, that's at a prerelease full of tournament players...

If they have decks for a format of course they know what's legal in it...

 

[Spiderman]

Not necessarily at a Prerelease. It's billed as a "friendly" event where everyone can come without the tourney pressure, and there's plenty of kids and adults who go to these and not other tournaments. They go to get a first look at the cards and whatnot.

And I wasn't sure if it was pertinent because it was so long ago, but the card shop I used to play at in the mid 90s was the same way.

 

[Oversoul]

What are you getting at, exactly though?

 

[Spiderman]

I am responding to your statement

I don't know why you think that when you face a stranger they would follow the Type I B/R list.

that while it appears in YOUR experience that you don't know if they're following the list, in MINE they do, which is why I think that.

 

[Oversoul]

In yours you arrange with them prior to the match what the format is. In mine, I never find out how legal my opponent's deck is, because my opponent doesn't know anything about formats and my deck is so much better because my opponent is a scrub...

You are fortunate that all of your opponents are apparently good enough to have Type I decks. Then again, Type I competitive and Type I legal are different things. I don't see why anyone would put weight on the Vintage restricted list for a deck that has no chance in a Vintage field...

That's sort of why a lot of people play casual...

 

[Spiderman]

Um, actually, it basically IS Type 1 casual. If we say we're playing with cards not in Standard, it's pretty much understood it's Type 1 by default unless someone says something further like "well, 1.5 or Extended or Vintage". But beyond that, I don't know if I'm playing a Type 1 tourney deck or a Type 1 "casual" fun deck. I DO know they're following the B/R list so I don't expect more than 1 Time Walk. And I try to play my best Type 1 deck at first to see if it can play against whatever's out there, tourney or not. Then if we actually get to play more games, we can hash out whether they need to be fun decks or not (unless THAT's also said up front of the first game).

 

[Oversoul]

What? You have a telepathic understanding with them that tells you it's Type I or something? I mean how do you reach that understanding if not verbally?

 

[Spiderman]

Because that's how my area is used to playing, which baffles me why your area isn't that way. All it takes is "You have any non-Standard cards?" "Yep" "All right, just making sure". And we know each other is following the list...

 

[Oversoul]

The entire area is like that? That actually sounds sort of cool. I mean, I think that it would mean more of the players understand the rules (which is always good) and there's better competition...

The only things I can think of are that maybe you're used to playing older players. I played a lot in high school and even back in junior high and that is a lot of the experience I'm drawing on (but not the majority).

Or, more likely, it has something to do with the fact that I live closer to the WotC headquarters overall, cards are generally available and a lot of kids play, without learning the rules of the game very well or anything like that. Most of the better players, myself included, build decks that are tournament legal in some format. I think that the new (Raisin) format can be a hit around here, hopefully. And then people can play that. Playing Vintage works too. It's my favorite format, but lacking power cards like the Time Walk you mentioned makes for an unfair contest against a fully powered deck...

Playing "underpowered Vintage" might become obsolete when there's a balanced Raisiny format to use in its stead.

 

[Spiderman]

Well, nowadays it's people of all ages, but back in the mid-90's it was generally people my age or older.

I just used the Time Walk as an example, I haven't actually played against anyone with that. It's just that since I don't know whether I'll be facing a casual deck or tourney deck (unless it was stated beforehand), I assume the worst and try to prepare for a tourney deck. And since mine isn't like others they've seen (I hope), they're usually more taken by surprise than I am of their deck.

But again, this is rare. I usually don't get to play outside of the game matches in a Prerelease and haven't played at a shop in forever.

 

[Oversoul]

I'm not a fan of seeing first turn plays that involve Mishra's Workshop or Black Lotus unless I'm equally well-equipped...

 

[mythosx]

I think spidermans earlier statement about type 1 being the majority of peoples definition of the ultimate casual play stands. Even if the person doesnt understand what it involves most people don't have a problem with it. Your idea of casual is even worse then type 1 cuz I have stories of people who play land, sol ring, sol ring, sol ring, 4 racks on the first turn....

 

[Gaea'sSaproling]

ya t1 is the casual players rules for making decks pretty much, i know a few people that use 4 of a restricted card but thats no fun cause if u wanted to be an oink u could ezily make a deck that wins 1st turn everygame

 

[Oversoul]

Originally posted by mythosx
I think spidermans earlier statement about type 1 being the majority of peoples definition of the ultimate casual play stands. Even if the person doesnt understand what it involves most people don't have a problem with it. Your idea of casual is even worse then type 1 cuz I have stories of people who play land, sol ring, sol ring, sol ring, 4 racks on the first turn....

Did you conduct a survey? Come on. Most of the magic playing population doesn't play very much and isn't into the game at all. They aren't going to keep up with the B/R lists. Sure, the good players do...

But the idea that casual play is more broken than Vintage? Who draws 4 Racks in an opening hand? And it's still only game winning if you also draw Mind Twist or something...

It can get broken. That is why I stopped making decks like my Dream Halls deck. But even something that broken I would rather not pilot against, say, fully powered TnT. That's why it's casual. No one can afford the expensive cards that make Type I broken. Sure, some jerk (like yours truly) might manage to dig up four Sol Rings. But Sol Rings aren't as impressive without Timetwisters to fuel...

 

[Gaea'sSaproling]

i use to use 4 sol ring and 4 mana vault, good times... i stopped because everyone would stop playing me due to 3rd-4th turn wins

 

[Oversoul]

Originally posted by Gaea'sSaproling
i use to use 4 sol ring and 4 mana vault, good times... i stopped because everyone would stop playing me due to 3rd-4th turn wins

This may or may not have happened to me as well...

But stop it. You're not helping my case...