fine tuned straight burn

Discussion in 'Casual Decks/Variants/Etc' started by mythosx, Aug 18, 2004.

  1. mythosx Legendary Creature-Human

    I am tinkering with my pure burn deck trying to maximize on damage:card, damage:mana ratios in order to put together a pure burn deck for type 1 play. The deck averages 4.3 turn kills when drawing first and pulls in a dismal 5.7 turn kills when playing first. Yes I did do the math.

    4x Lightning bolts
    4x Chain lightnings
    4x Spark elementals
    4x Incinerates
    4x Thunderbolts
    4x Fireblasts
    4x Scent of cinders
    4x Chain of plasmas
    4x Fiery tempers
    4x Sonic seizures
    20 Mountains

    I know what your thinking...How do i deal with life gain. The answer is I don't. I can't deal with Damage prevention. The whole point is to waste someone before they can drop anything significant. CoPs cost 2. Justice doesnt slow me down. Counters can be overwhelmed as most of my deck can be played at the end of my opponents turn. The only times I need to hold back are when I draw a scent of cinders and may skip playing a burn spell on my first turn to do additional damage.

    Question, What else can I cram in this to hopefully drop my kill turns to about 5 when I play first and 4 when I draw first?
  2. chris92 king

    i used to have a pure typ1 burn deck too similar to yours, but after hundreds of games, playing with creatures are the better option. although i know how its so nice to kill your opponent with the sheer speed of a pure burn deck.

    i prefer sonic bursts rather than seizures. and i don't like them spark elementals, wouldn't it be better if you popped something straight to your opponent, rather than an attacking creature which could be easily destroyed or blocked. and a couple of flames of rath wouldn't hurt. imagine a 4th turn 4th land drop cast flames sac 4 mountains for 2 fireblasts, that's like 16 damage straight to his head :D
  3. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Here's what I run...

    3x Mogg Fanatic
    4x Lightning Bolt
    4x Chain Lightning
    4x Seal of Fire
    4x Incinerate
    2x Sonic Burst
    4x Flame Rift
    2x Scent of Cinder
    4x Fork (yes, it's T1 restricted)
    2x Wheel of Fortune (ooh look, another one)
    4x Ball Lightning
    4x Fireblast
    2x Sandstone Needle
    17x Mountain

    It gets fourth turn kills with consistency and on rare occasions gets third turn kills.
  4. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    What do you mean "pure burn"? I would have thought no creatures, but you have the Elementals in there...

    If creatures are allowed, what about Ball Lightning or Blistering Firecat?

    I would agree a Fork would be good and perhaps a Wheel to refill your hand.
  5. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    The only creatures I would use for "pure burn" are probably the two I'm already using. Fanatic IS a burn spell in a way and Ball Lightning is a damage dealer too. Neither is used in the conventional manner...

    Yeah, Fork is great in my deck. I used to only have two, but I got another and then another eventually. They are amazing with Fireblast (and when combined with enough "Lightning" cards able to perform an incredible third turn kill) to begin. At worst, they copy weaker burn spells. They're also nice for dealing with Counterpsell, Hymn to Tourach, etc.

    Wheel is good in two copies. More would hurt the deck's consistency too much. If one wanted to build a T1 legal burn creation, then I supose that one Wheel would have to do...

    Then again, burn wouldn't possibly survive in T1...
  6. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Have you tried Blistering Firecats in place of Ball Lightnings? I know (I think) you're against morph and all... but I just read an article on magicthegathering comparing the two.

    Of course Fork and Wheel are good in multiples - that's why they're restricted :)
  7. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    I considered Firecat and Skizzik, but Ball Lightning, is simple, powerful, elegant, and fast as ever. The plan is not even to use it really. The plan is to either Scent of Cinder early, or some bolt spells early, and on either turn 3 or usually 4 drop Fireblast along with Fork. But if I don't get enough speed to do it, Ball Lightning can can help keep my kill below turn 6 (which is too slow for me). This is also the reason I don't run Spark Elemental (it doesn't really help the speed). Skizzik or Firecat might be able to pull more damage some games, but I just don't think they're as good, because they're not as potent.

    Oh, and I got some amount of vengeance with morph. In a draft, I hit a guy with Ebonblade Reaper (or Ebon Bladereaper or Ebonbladereaper or Ebonblad Ereaper or whatever stupid way that card is spelled) who first hit me with it back when it was new. I prefer to think of it as karma...

    I still don't like morph, but I don't hate it as much as I hate some other stuff (like Door to Nothingness and Coalition Victory in the same deck). I wouldn't use Warrior Angel over Exalted Angel though...
  8. train The Wildcard!!!...

    Browbeat...
  9. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Possibly...
  10. chris92 king

    fork and wheel of fortune are very good additions,even if they're restricted.
    i don't like ball lightning though, or any other creature with effects similar (blazing firecat and spark elemental). they feel like burn spells with a bad drawback.
    browbeat also isn't very effective, or any card which let's your opponent choose the effect, like blazing salvo and breaking point.
    well that's just me
  11. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    I understand what you're saying there. I wouldn't use Spark Elemental or even Firecat. But Ball Lightning is just too good of a deal to pass up. It has failed me in the past, but it has also won games. Burn NEEDS to get the fast kill, and one is only allowed to maindeck four Fireblasts. Seal of Fire and Mogg Fanatic also become more powerful, when rather than taking small bites out of the opponents life total, they blow up any creatures that can handle the Ball Lightning (like Prodigal Sorcerer).

    I'm not saying that it doesn't have a drawback. If it were just RRR for 6 damage, that would be excellent. But it's the next best thing...

    Browbeat I'm uncertain about. It looks like a potential candidate, but then again, I don't consider it as good as any of the spells I already use. This is not because it is a card where the opponent gets a choice. Intuition and Fact or Fiction are also such cards. One is restricted and the other is the best unrestricted tutor in Type I. They are good cards. Browbeat is okay. I haven't tested it, but my thoughts are...

    If you really need more burn spells to kill them with, this thing soaks up 2R and might just do 5, when you NEED more cards. If, on the other hand, you don't need more burn spells, this just acts as a card drawer and probably delays you for a turn. It costs the same as Ball Lightning, for one less potential damage, and is probably more likely to give the opponent a chance to soften the blow. Note that I'm not positive on this last point. It depends on what you're playing against, for one thing, and like I said: I haven't tested Browbeat.
  12. boozehound Twisted Firestarter

    I run a couple of isochron scepters in my burn deck, which i know detracts from a PURE burn deck, but have found that having a fork on one for counterspells etc. and then say a re-usable lightning bolt on the other has come in very handy in the past. And they are relatively cheap so it don't really slow things down.
  13. chris92 king

    yea, sometimes we just put ball lightning for lack of a better option. :)

    ofcourse i wasn't talking about fact or fiction and intuition, because even though the they involve your opponent's decision making, they will still involve card drawing, and not a choice between two very different things, like card drawing and damage as seen in browbeat. plus in fact or fiction, he just divides the pile you still get the final decision anyway. With intuition you could just get multiples, especially because you already know what your opponent would be picking. in Browbeat, Blazing salvo etc. you know that you're opponent will always pick the choice where you would benefit the less. :(
  14. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Well that goes without saying. The question then, is if the opponent is likely to have a choice that will not benefit you. I'm inclined to say that they will. I still think that Browbeat is viable. But for my deck it doesn't make the cut.

    I once lost in a casual tournament against a burn deck that used Scepters. It also had no Fireblasts. So sad. And if I'd been using my own burn deck, the guy would have been completely overwhelmed. As much fun as one might have putting Incinerate on Isochron Scepter, it is tempo loss. The more time you waste, the more time you give the opponent to find answers to your threats. If you are playing a burn deck, your deck is full of burn spells and you don't need to worry about having a reusable one. A single Scepter with a Fork imprint is not going to pin down a control deck. I prefer to just cast that Fork, which almost always has a tasty target (that's why I pack four of them).
  15. train The Wildcard!!!...

    the point of browbeat was - if you're missing a turn for scent of cinder, just to be bigger - here it can be much bigger... and knowing you're playing burn - it's hard for someone to know whether to take the 5, or let you draw 3 (there is a chance you draw lands, but if not - they face more burn...)

    And if you play the scent of cinder and drew in to 2 fireblasts... that's up to 14 pts of damage - nice...

    It's damage or a hand filler - for an opponent already weakened and staring at a burn deck - that's never going to be an easy choice...

    ;)
  16. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    I hadn't even thought of the synergy Browbeat has with Scent. They either take 5 or let you draw three more cards, of which at least two will be red cards to fuel Scent...

    Still, it is more situational, as is Scent, which is why I only use two. I think Browbeat would be my choice for a fourth uncommon in Peasant format though...
  17. train The Wildcard!!!...

    Well - I didn't see where it said Peasant... and either filling your hand, ordrawing three cards isn't bad - but if you have the kill and don't want to wait - you could always final fortune...;)
  18. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    I used to use Final Fortune in my burn deck. Much to situational, because if three are used, you draw them when you don't need them, and if two are used, you don't draw them when you do need them. Actually, the times I did use it, I could have killed without it anyway...
  19. train The Wildcard!!!...

    I guess it depends on whether you play against a lot of counter...

    maybe it's because I suggested it - but I still think browbeat is nice... have you tested it?...
  20. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    I thought that I had said so already (guess I didn't), but no, I haven't tested it in my deck, so I'm only speculating. My deck is pretty fine-tuned the way it is, but if I needed to replace some rares or something for Peasant format, Browbeat seems a likely candidate...

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