tribal?

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BigBlue

Guest
Sigh..... I hate fliers... I shoulda played my bird deck... GG...
 

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
Sigh..... I hate fliers... I shoulda played my bird deck...
I know what you mean. I feel like I should have gone with the black wall deck (using Pestilence as its win condition) that I also tested. But hindsight is 20/20.

Spidey pulled exactly the type of move I was worried about. I highly doubt I'll be able to recover from the damage I've taken AND the loss of my Smokestack, but I'll give it a shot...

Untap, draw, Forest, Sylvan Library, done.

Spiderman

Life: 15
Hand: 4
In Play:

(T, T, U) Plainsx3
(T) Fellwar Stone (T: add any mana that an opponent's land can produce)

(U) Skyhunter Prowler (2/4, flying, vigilance)

(U) Sensei's Divining Top (1: look at the top 3 cards of my library and put them back in any order. T: Draw a card, then put Top on top on owner's library)

Glorious Anthem (my creatures get +1/+1)

Graveyard: Plains, Disenchant
RFG:

Oversoul

Life: 7
Hand: 0

In Play:
-Forest x4 (T, T, U, U)
-Vine Trellisx2 (0/4, U, U)
-Wall of Blossoms (2/4, U, trample)
-Wall of Roots (0/3, U)
-Carnivorous Plant (6/5, U, trample)
-Rancor (enchanting Wall of Blossoms)
-Rancor (enchanting Carnivorous Plant)

Graveyard: Smokestack
RFG: Elvish Spirit Guide
 
B

BigBlue

Guest
Like I said, the extra 5 sliver damage hurt a lot..... without that damage I think I'd have pulled it out... 1 turn would have made all the difference I think with Spidey... maybe not...
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Does Pestilence fall under that global ban? Maybe if there's a next game, we should just try keeping the "official" ban list from Wizards and anything else goes.

EOT, I'll use the Top to rearrange my top 3 cards.

Untap, Draw, Attack for 2, Wasteland, Disenchant the Library, Done.

Life: 15
Hand: 3
In Play:

(T, U, U) Plainsx3
(U) Wasteland
(T) Fellwar Stone (T: add any mana that an opponent's land can produce)

(U) Skyhunter Prowler (2/4, flying, vigilance)

(U) Sensei's Divining Top (1: look at the top 3 cards of my library and put them back in any order. T: Draw a card, then put Top on top on owner's library)

Glorious Anthem (my creatures get +1/+1)

Graveyard: Plains, Disenchant, Disenchant
RFG:

Oversoul

Life: 5
Hand: 0

In Play:
-Forest x4 (T, T, U, U)
-Vine Trellisx2 (0/4, U, U)
-Wall of Blossoms (2/4, U, trample)
-Wall of Roots (0/3, U)
-Carnivorous Plant (6/5, U, trample)
-Rancor (enchanting Wall of Blossoms)
-Rancor (enchanting Carnivorous Plant)

Graveyard: Smokestack, Sylvan Library
RFG: Elvish Spirit Guide
 
B

BigBlue

Guest
Well... I think we couldn't define what we wanted to ban... and I think (not to target Oversoul) I would have excluded Smokestack... given the other things we said we were excluding... but without rigorous definitions we each got to decide what we felt was fair - and that definition differed... I pulled Pernicious Deed since it was explicitly mentioned as a global killer - but I really don't think it is any different than Smokestack... I would like to play again as spidey says - only using the official banned lists - with the additional banning of tribal type hosers. I know Zombie, Elf, and Goblin Decks can be degerative, but I don't think we should ban any tribe...

I think one of the other things I exploited which I'd probably exclude is the use of creatures not in the tribe... I played 20 Beasts 4 elves and 4 treefolk with 12 spells (Life/Death, Consume Strength, and Rancor)
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
This is really my first time playing this kind of format, but I think that if MTGO found the three tribes mentioned above too degenerate, I would tend to agree with them. I mean, would any of us choose them if they were allowed? mythosx used slivers... and Beasts were kinda scary. To be honest, so far I just see myself and Oversoul playing "fun" tribal decks (with the exception of Smokestack).

In other words, if the three were allowed, someone would probably use them "fully powered", seeing how this group is, and it probably won't be fun if none or one other used them also (I certainly wouldn't have). We could have a game where ONLY those three could be used just to see how it goes, but given the nature so far of this group, I don't think we ought to use them.
 
M

mythosx

Guest
BigBlue said:
I made a huge error by not splitting my attack up the turn before... but then again maybe it wasn't.... I wonder if I'd have split between you and Mythosx if he'd have at least sent a few of those slivers your way instead.... the problem with a 9/7 or 10/8 Spiritmonger is it attracts a lot of attention... I came out far too aggressive to survive long... And if I hadn't killed the sliver deck, he'd have won... even with the smokestack. the heart & hibernation slivers hurt... I was hoping to still have some life... :) 2 is tough, with Spidey's flier...

I'd have ripped apart Stax since i need every sliver on the table and every point of mana every turn....

Hey! My deck is a fun tribal deck...its really casual...166 card library...everything is a creature except land search spells and 2 of each ashnods altar and heart stone. I dont really have support spells. I just happened to get a decent draw...

To answer your blocking question about the blad sliver...I was originally going to save that guy to take out oversoul...but I got hit for way too much and realized even if took out Oversoul I'd still be screwed...so I sent it for retaliation.
 
B

BigBlue

Guest
Wasn't it Capt Caveman who had a definition of Tribal with a lengthy list of Banned cards in the forum a while back? I want to say he ran a contest on it or something...
 

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
That last Disenchant just made Spidey's win a certainty. GG

Going through the motions...

Untap, draw, Wall of Brambles, done.

Spiderman

Life: 15
Hand: 3
In Play:

(T, U, U) Plainsx3
(U) Wasteland
(T) Fellwar Stone (T: add any mana that an opponent's land can produce)

(U) Skyhunter Prowler (2/4, flying, vigilance)

(U) Sensei's Divining Top (1: look at the top 3 cards of my library and put them back in any order. T: Draw a card, then put Top on top on owner's library)

Glorious Anthem (my creatures get +1/+1)

Graveyard: Plains, Disenchant, Disenchant
RFG:

Oversoul

Life: 5
Hand: 0

In Play:
-Forest x4 (T, T, T, U)
-Vine Trellisx2 (0/4, U, U)
-Wall of Blossoms (2/4, U, trample)
-Wall of Roots (0/3, U)
-Carnivorous Plant (6/5, U, trample)
-Wall of Brambles (2/3, U)
-Rancor (enchanting Wall of Blossoms)
-Rancor (enchanting Carnivorous Plant)

Graveyard: Smokestack, Sylvan Library
RFG: Elvish Spirit Guide
 

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
As far as what is too powerful for this format, I guess it all depends on how fast you want the format to be. I didn't see anything this game that was more powerful than what I felt I should expect. I cut the flying creature hate from my deck in order to add Carnivorous Plants (for blocking beasts, incidentally). That turned out to be a mistake. But the overall level of speed was what I had anticipated.

And in a game like this, you can never tell just what might happen. I think if it had been a duel between any of these decks (going by the opening hands we got this game), BB or Mythosx would have had the advantage, but they were the first to be killed in this game, since they were forced to deal with each other. Spidey played some mana boosters and card acceleration and a single creature, overall the slowest and least impressive start that any of us had, but he won, since he was able to maintain a stable position while we all worked to kill each other.

If we had gone with Vintage as the skeleton format, and allowed ANY tribes, I'd have fully expected to be ripped apart by goblins.

We can go with whatever set of rules that we can get a consensus for, but some will be more inherently broken than others.

If you guys want the next game to be a tribal one again, then that's fine. I'd certainly play. As far as rules, I think the ban on goblins/zombies/elves is a better policy than just allowing any tribes. Those three (but especially goblins) have enough inherent synergy and power to dominate in a tribal setting. We can choose to allow them. But if we do, I think we'll probably see nothing but those three...

Just my $0.02 on the matter.
 
B

BigBlue

Guest
I've never run a goblin deck....

Nor have I run an Elf deck...

But, I have a very degenerate zombie deck... It uses the new(er) zombie which deals damage to all opponents whenever a zombie goes into a gy.... that and Tombstone stairwell ends things in a hurry... If the zombies don't kill you first of course...

If you don't mind my asking Oversoul... what was going to do damage eventually? I figured for sure it was a wall deck with Hurricane which both killed fliers and did damage....
 

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
I cut the Hurricanes while metagaming (an evidently incorrect decision). So my only source of damage were the Elvish Spirit Guides. But I didn't even need those, as my plan was to eventually pump the Smokestack up to three counters, while I had three Rancors out, ensuring that my opponents would be locked down and eventually decked (while I had Gaea's Blessings and Abundance, either of which could prevent decking).

Tomstone Stairwell rocks.
 
M

mythosx

Guest
Zombies are degenerate...all because of a certain Zombie dwarf legend and Noxious Ghoul. I once went head to head with a zombie tribal deck....it was close...very close...the balthor happened and that was game...he can go off pretty fast too...turn five..

Deck?? I would have decked on turn 156.... :p
 

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
mythosx said:
Deck?? I would have decked on turn 156.... :p
If I could have gotten a Smokestack lockdown with you still in the game, it would have been great fun. I'm not sure you would have wanted to wait 156 turns, but I know I would have... :D
 
B

BigBlue

Guest
Here is where I say, that is why Smokestack doesn't belong in Tribal...

Tribal is about creatures laying the smackdown on one another... winning by decking in a tribal game just feels "wrong".... I'm not trying to call you out or anything... because you played by the rules and all...

But Tribal to me means creatures win the game... Even degenerate creature abilities...
 
M

mythosx

Guest
I concur...although oversoul did not break the letter of the law...he did in spirit...still made it exciting game though...anyone up for another?

I would have made you earn it...i would have typed draw go...156 times until i conceded!
 

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
mythosx said:
I concur...although oversoul did not break the letter of the law...he did in spirit...still made it exciting game though...anyone up for another?
It doesn't really work that way. There's breaking the letter of the law and not the spirit of the law--but not the other way around. Besides, creatures are lame. :p
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
EOT, use the Top to rearrange the top 3 cards.

Untap, Draw, attack for 2, Fellwar Stone, Leonin Abunas, Done.

Spiderman

Life: 15
Hand: 2
In Play:

(T, T, T) Plainsx3
(T) Wasteland
(T, U) Fellwar Stonex2 (T: add any mana that an opponent's land can produce)

(U) Skyhunter Prowler (2/4, flying, vigilance)
(U) Leonin Abunas (3/6, my artifacts can't be the target of spells of effects that my opponents control)

(U) Sensei's Divining Top (1: look at the top 3 cards of my library and put them back in any order. T: Draw a card, then put Top on top on owner's library)

Glorious Anthem (my creatures get +1/+1)

Graveyard: Plains, Disenchant, Disenchant
RFG:

Oversoul

Life: 3
Hand: 0

In Play:
-Forest x4 (T, T, T, U)
-Vine Trellisx2 (0/4, U, U)
-Wall of Blossoms (2/4, U, trample)
-Wall of Roots (0/3, U)
-Carnivorous Plant (6/5, U, trample)
-Wall of Brambles (2/3, U)
-Rancor (enchanting Wall of Blossoms)
-Rancor (enchanting Carnivorous Plant)

Graveyard: Smokestack, Sylvan Library
RFG: Elvish Spirit Guide
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
I don't remember if Capt. Caveman had a banned list... we could go look for it.

I know it's not in the spirit of "tribal", but outside of the named banned cards, I think some tribes just have to use creature sweepers like Wrath of God or Pernicious Deed because not all tribes are created equal. In which case it gives a smaller, weaker tribe the ability to match a stronger tribe (i.e. Cats vs Beasts :) ) Just cards that affect a tribe directly like the ones mentioned are definitely not in the tribal spirit.

So I'm still not sure what we decided. Use zombies/goblins/elves? Go with just the named banned cards (and maybe see if CC has some)? Some combination?
 
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