The Border Laws!

[Oversoul]

You know, using that criteria, actually finding out whether Luxemburg or other countries beat the US in those categories; i.e. the US has $20,000 average income while <country> has $55,000 average income, etc.

Oh, that sounds like work...

But as far as GDP per capita, the CIA World Factbook (not sure how good of a source it is for these statistics) gives the following for the top 10.

1. Bermuda
2. Luxembourg
3. Equatorial Guinea
4. Norway
5. United States
6. Guernsey (British dependent)
7. Jersey (British dependent)
8. British Virgin Islands
9. Hong Kong
10. Switzerland

But as far as large discrepencies, the U.S. is at $42,000 and the only countries that beat it by more than $10,000 are Bermuda ($69,000) and Luxembourg ($55,600).

As a side note, Mexico is ranked at #86 on the list and has $10,100.

 

[DarthFerret]

Maybe I should Immigrate Illegally to Bermuda?

 

[Spiderman]

Depends if you can get one of the $55,000 or higher paying jobs... If you're illegally immigrating, somehow I doubt it...

 

[DarthFerret]

Can a person actually Immigrate to Bermuda Illegally?....I thought they would accept anyone brave enough to be that close to the Triangle?

 

[Spiderman]

Beats me... I suppose if you just decide to live there, either with someone or by yourself (if that's possible) on the beach or something, I don't know if they come by and check <shrug>

 

[Mooseman]

Since Bermuda is part of the UK, it should be just like moving to there. Need visas and stuff. But it should be very easy for an American citizen.

GDP is nice, but not a real indicator of personal wealth or earnings. Did you find what the average salary rankings by counties. That will tell you what jobs are paying.

Still, who would want to leave the US to illegally immigrate to anywhere else?


Back to the original question:
Should those who broke the law, benifit from it? Should those who followed the law and struggled to become citizens or permenent residents/workers be told that, although very desirible people, illegally staying in this, or any other, country is just as good?

BTW - the companies that use illegal workers don't pay payroll taxes, unemployment, benifits, etc.... and that is an other reason for hiring an illegal over a legal worker. Greed makes the world go round.
If these companies were required to compensate their workers legally, they would be less inclined to hire an illegal worker.

 

[Spiderman]

Back to the original question:
Should those who broke the law, benifit from it? Should those who followed the law and struggled to become citizens or permenent residents/workers be told that, although very desirible people, illegally staying in this, or any other, country is just as good?

Honestly, like I said, before, I think they ought to become legalized. The question is why haven't they? I'm sure there are an abundance of reasons...

But frankly, I think there are enough existing problem with the current "legal" citizens of the US who actually break laws that affect someone, i.e. crime rather than concentrate on those whose only "crime" is entering a country without the right papers.

BTW - the companies that use illegal workers don't pay payroll taxes, unemployment, benifits, etc.... and that is an other reason for hiring an illegal over a legal worker. Greed makes the world go round.
If these companies were required to compensate their workers legally, they would be less inclined to hire an illegal worker.

Probably true. What would be interesting is how many workers a company can then hire legally and how much prices would change and whether that affects the people who use those companies.

 

[Oversoul]

GDP is nice, but not a real indicator of personal wealth or earnings. Did you find what the average salary rankings by counties. That will tell you what jobs are paying.

It was GDP per capita that I was using. But if I didn't already mention it, one problem with such figures is that they are means and hypothetically if I had a country (especially a small country) with a few billionaires, some millionaires, a large upper class, a tiny middle class, and a bunch of poor people, it could still come up with a good number for this.

 

[DarthFerret]

Actually, the main reason that they are here illegally is because of 2 main points.

1: The length of time it takes to get all of the legal crap done (I have heard of it taking in upwards of a year to do so).

2: The cost involved (yes, there is one). Last time I talked to a Legal Immigrant that wants her fiance' here, she told me it was going to cost somewhere around $2,000 to get him here legally, not to mention the cost (unsure how much) of the citizenship classes. It was only supposed ot cost about $700 (plus an 8 hour walk through the desert) to get him here illegally.

Working for the company that I work for, I happen to be pretty close to legal and illegal immigrants from Central America. I do not happen to know (and for my own job security, I choose ignorance right now) who is legal, and who is not. I do know that recently, they all had to provide thier picture ID (Drivers License or Work Permit) and thier SSN's (or I guess someones SSN). They all have taxes taken out of thier check, as well as medicare, Social Security and FICA (who is this FICA guy anyway? )

I think, that if you want to stop about half of the illegal immigration process, it would be simple (the other half would be more difficult). Have closer checks performed on SSN numbers given by employers, loans/financing, welfare/food stamps, and any other process that uses a persons SSN. It would not have to be an intrusive investigation, just someone that does a lot of cross-referencing. This would also create a few more jobs out there for Legal citizens, and help bolster our economy. Then the only problem would be figuring out how Social Security survives without the income that goes in from bad SSN's and never gets claimed towards the later years of the "individuals" life.

 

[Mooseman]

Actually, the main reason that they are here illegally is because of 2 main points.

1: The length of time it takes to get all of the legal crap done (I have heard of it taking in upwards of a year to do so).

2: The cost involved (yes, there is one). Last time I talked to a Legal Immigrant that wants her fiance' here, she told me it was going to cost somewhere around $2,000 to get him here legally, not to mention the cost (unsure how much) of the citizenship classes. It was only supposed ot cost about $700 (plus an 8 hour walk through the desert) to get him here illegally.

So, what would you prefer? It to be paid for by the US government and takes the same time as the Wendy's drive through window?

If I was to move to Norway, I would expect it to take a good amount of time and cost some money to get all the ducks in a row.

My friend was to move to Australia for his company and work there for 2-3 years. He spent over 6 months and his company spent lots of money getting, work visas, passports and the like. He ended up not going since the double taxes were going to be a huge expense and his company decided it was economically feasible.

Should moving into and working in the US be any different, because someone can walk here?

 

[Spiderman]

Actually, the main reason that they are here illegally is because of 2 main points.

1: The length of time it takes to get all of the legal crap done (I have heard of it taking in upwards of a year to do so).

2: The cost involved (yes, there is one). Last time I talked to a Legal Immigrant that wants her fiance' here, she told me it was going to cost somewhere around $2,000 to get him here legally, not to mention the cost (unsure how much) of the citizenship classes. It was only supposed ot cost about $700 (plus an 8 hour walk through the desert) to get him here illegally.

Well, they could try to get green cards or work visas but we all know those are limited and let's face it, the US pays better than what they can earn at home. It's that simple.

Want to get rid of the illegal immigrants? Raise the source country's standard of living so they don't feel the need to come here.

I think, that if you want to stop about half of the illegal immigration process, it would be simple (the other half would be more difficult). Have closer checks performed on SSN numbers given by employers, loans/financing, welfare/food stamps, and any other process that uses a persons SSN. It would not have to be an intrusive investigation, just someone that does a lot of cross-referencing. This would also create a few more jobs out there for Legal citizens, and help bolster our economy. Then the only problem would be figuring out how Social Security survives without the income that goes in from bad SSN's and never gets claimed towards the later years of the "individuals" life.

I actually know a bit about this process and it's there; I'll find out the details.

About the last sentence - that's inapplicable. Money going into SS isn't "reserved" for the person paying it - it goes into a general fund that is paid to current claimants (or the giant trust fund which earns money to pay for claimants). That's partly why there's going to be a problem in a couple of decades or so... the money coming in isn't going to be enough to pay (current) full benefits to all of the claimants.

 

[TomB]

You missed his point about the unclaimed tax money though - the point is that no one will be claiming it later, so it becomes, essentially, free money for our retirement fund...

 

[Spiderman]

Eh... depends how much it actually is...

 

[Mooseman]

And if they get "amnesty" they will be collecting on that money.

Question:
What do other countries do about this, or what do you think they would do?

I feel that very few non-western nations would even be having this debate.

 

[DarthFerret]

Well, according to the news last week, the French have completely closed thier borders, and all persons living there that are not French Citizens have 2 years (I think) to learn the language, customs, and finalize all of thier paperwork, or get tossed out. I am not sure of the reasons why they did this, but you asked for an example, so there it is.

 

[Mooseman]

Well, according to the news last week, the French have completely closed thier borders, and all persons living there that are not French Citizens have 2 years (I think) to learn the language, customs, and finalize all of thier paperwork, or get tossed out. I am not sure of the reasons why they did this, but you asked for an example, so there it is.

It's most likely because of the riots and destruction of property that happened earlier this year.
That's fairly drastic, I don't think the US would go that far..... yet.
Just let Pat Robertson become president and lots of people will be kicked out or run screaming for the boarders........

 

[HOUTS]

I become dumber reading this.
All facts are missing.
Ignorance flows.

I'd educated,inform, or provide a reasonable, logical, response but I enjoy reading this.
Keep it up!

HOUTS

 

[Nightstalkers]

I become dumber reading this.
All facts are missing.
Ignorance flows.

Isn't that the point of online forums?

 

[Spiderman]

Question:
What do other countries do about this, or what do you think they would do?

I feel that very few non-western nations would even be having this debate.

Is that because they don't have to deal with immigration or they just have a policy already in place?

I am fairly sure there is a lot of illegal immigration going on in Asia - pretty much anyone bordering North Korea. I think some are sent back but a lot are kept for the "cheap" labor (although there, I think it's akin to slavery).

 

[Oversoul]

I become dumber reading this.
All facts are missing.
Ignorance flows.

I'd educated,inform, or provide a reasonable, logical, response but I enjoy reading this.
Keep it up!

This poem sucks!