Spiderman

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
To put another perspective on this, while the no-fly zone maybe UN, it is primarily US, British, and French planes that enforce it. And I don't have the numbers, but the US planes are probably the majority.

The UN is not wrapped around the US's finger but recognizes that it needs the help of the most powerful nation on earth to make things work. That's partyly why the League of Nations failed after WWI; the US was not part of it.

It is also recognized that countries can do whatever they want with monies given to them, whether for humantarian reasons or otherwise. This is partly why Russia is still in a bad mess after the World Bank has given it x amount of money; a lot of it was siphoned off for personal use. Same with famine aid and such for a lot of African countries.
 
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Hetemti

Guest
Nope, but I did watch all 23 episodes of The Critic. A pity it was cancelled...twice...but instead we get Ellen Degenerous! And three more Law & Order spinoffs!

Anyone ever hear of the game "Magic: the Gathering?" If you have then you know what I'm talking about...I'm working on a U/B deck (my second worst color combo, worst for me is W/G) built around shadows, with Black Vise + Stroke/Geyser/Prosp as a finisher. Plus, with the Vise in play, Arcane Denyal gets better, since they won't want to to draw cards. I need to get to the shop (now that I'm in Gainesville, there's a shop about 40mins away) and get a few Dauthi Warlords.

I also compiled some cool Mods and video game remixes and made a CD. :)
 
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rkoelsch

Guest
Everyone has their own cards, right? Sounds pretty bizarre if you ask me.:rolleyes:
 

TomB

Administrator
Staff member
And I think Apollo is exactly right. I'd even go so far as to include DÛke right in there with him, as someone who's only posting here to get people really mad.

Sadly, it wouldn't be the first time for either one of them :(

Here's a link to page that will take forever to download, but it covers the disaster in detail and has a soundtrack to it: http://www.wnybars.com/movie1.html
 
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DÛke

Guest
...
TomB:I'd even go so far as to include DÛke right in there with him, as someone who's only posting here to get people really mad.
Yes, that's it TomB, you figured me out. I'm not trying to talk logic here, I'm just trying to stirr you all up. How did you figure that out? Man, you're sly.

You know what? At least I have an open mind about the whole deal.

Tell ya what - why don't we ban Gizmo? No, no. Even better. Ban me. Ban Lotus Mox. Ban Duel...and while you're at it, let's ban Zadok and Istanbul too. Hey, include FoR to that recipe. Hey, we mostly all agree about the logic of the issue; heck, even Zadok agrees with Gizmo (therefore with me) about mostly everything. Open your eyes and see - Gizmo and I aren't alone on this anymore...

...but like the tragedy, there's no solution except war, right? Just ban us. That's the quickest solution to the problem that doesn't even exist...

I would have won your vote if I said: "Damn with the world, nuke everyone!" After all, I don't see you saying anything about extremes like that. Yes. You're right. War is the only solution. Nuke them.
 
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Cateran Emperor

Guest
Aye, Spidey, that was in my quote. I'm going to have to put it back in there.

Gizmo, I respect your opinions as a Magic player, but if you're going to leave because you don't want to defend yourself, then do so. I think what you said was absolutely wrong, but that was your opinion. Now, you prove us all right by running away.

Fare thee well, but you know as well as I that this will not be the end of you here.
 
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Daggertooth

Guest
Extreme?!? You call this discussion Extreme?

I ran here from MTG news because of the more realistic views.


It pisses me off. :mad: i can't tell you how angry I get when I hear things like:

"You diserved it."
"This was a long time comming."
"Thats what you get for a medling in foregn affairs."
And many other statements that are derogetory.

I tell you I was pissed at most of what Gizmo posted. Duke, well I disliked his passafist view, but it was rational.

I yelled at the screen of the chilldren dancing in the street. I vowed revenge. "Next time those kids will be dancing amung the rubble next to the bodies of their friends." I fumed.

I looked at the world in anger! Looked at all the critisism we were taking in our greatest tradgedy we have ever had..............


.......Then I took a step back step back to think. How much of what people say is true?


Well, Terrorists have been trying to take us out for a long time. After all, In the middle east we're are generaly considered the Devil. And Although I don't understand much about ultimate evil I suppose you would do everything in your power to exterminate it. Thus it should have been no suprise that one of their many attemps succeeded.

Our foregn dealings with the world have been one of many mistakes. We've screwed up. Big time at that. At least we should be able to admit that. Our mistakes have cost the lives of millions. Our fault? perhaps. But indirectly so. Thats why people are saying we Diserved this.

As for people who preach Isolationism, I ask one question. How can you Isolate yourself in a world where it takes only a few days to circle it. Is it possible? We tried once and millions died in a holocost. Can we afford to do that again?

So are they right? Perhaps, depending on the perspective and where they came from. Now what to do...


There are many possible solutions to this problem. I have come to terms of what I want. War. War on those who did this and any who would protect those. Is it posible to only take out those who have caused this? No, innocents will die no matter what we do. Will it stop this? No, nothing we do here or ever can stop the violence. Killing those responsible will only show them the consequence they are willing to face. But letting them live free shows that they need not fear any consequence.

Perhaps I am wrong. Perhaps everyone is wrong. Perhaps there is nothing anyone can do to stop this. After all, are any of you willing to live with the devil in the world?


Lastly, This family has had it's disputes before. Many over trivial matters. Theres always name calling and perhaps a few fists. But all that can be expected in a family. Insults fly and anger is abundant, but family ties are stronger than that. This family grows daily, and although we may not agree with each other or even like each other we are still within the family. So leave if you wish, we will be here waiting. And will be when you come back.



Daggertooth
Family Forever.
 
A

arhar

Guest
Originally posted by DÛke
Yes. You're right. War is the only solution. Nuke them.
And that's the first smart thing Duke said, ever!!! :D Sorry, just kidding, you know I love you, Duke.
 
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Dementia

Guest
We all all frustrated right now. Frustrated because it is a difficult time. And frustrated because no matter how hard we try no one is prolly gonna see things exactly the way we see them.

I am still trying to fight the urge to just block myself from all these threads. They are very depressing. I don't like seeing such a happy place as the CPA turn into this.

I am feeling what Griffith is feeling. Please hear me out before you close your minds. Right now I am more depressed then I have been since I was about 16 or so(a time when I continplated suicide every day) I love the CPA. If my mother died I would start a thread on here, and I am sure that most all of you would post to console me.

Why can't we do that with this? For now, lets have some unconditional consoling. Comfort friends because they are your friends.

Realize this, none of these arguments serve any purpose except to upset each other.

Gizmo: You realize that even if you bring me around to your way of thinking I CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT THE SITUATION. So you have a choice. Voice your opinion and upset your fellow magic players and ultimatly serve no purpose at all. Or console them at a time when they need it.

You are ultimatly being counter productive. I don't know if I am speaking for everyone, but with all this fighting I am about to shut myself off from all these threads and ignore them. Perhaps if you give us time to mourn and support us. Then we will become closer, and when you tell us the facts we will be more likely to listen.

I think this fighting has personally been the worst part of this whole thing for me. Are you proud of that Gizmo? Even though I have no say over what the government does, and I can't change anything you are gonna try to bring me around to your way of thinking. You are basically just making me feel worse.

How does that make you feel Gizmo?

Sorry....I realize I am centering more on Gizmo then I should. I am basically talking to anyone who has started fights on there threads.

To everyone: Remember, making everyone feel better should be the main focus right now.
 
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DÛke

Guest
...I'm your friend Dementia, and you know me. Everyone was giving out their opinion. Gizmo didn't agree, so he gave out his opinion. Is it his fault that he has a different opinion? I hope not.

You know who started these "flame" wars? Not me. Not Gizmo. Not us people that're viewed as anti-American, racist...or what have you. All we did is voice OUR opinion calmly, and you know what the reaction was? More violent and insulting then the tragedy. All of the sudden, people couldn't handle Gizmo's opinion. They think I'm just stirring up trouble. Gizmo did not reply with such offensive-ness, niether have I... to any of these people, instead, he left like an honorable guy would, and I'm still trying to make people see it universally rather than locally - and I'll never be angery. Gizmo was viewed as anti-American, or heartless...or whatever...that's bullcrap. Now, I respect Gizmo more than anyone in this site...not because I agree with his opinions about this issue, but because I know that he's the kind of friend that I would want when I'm in trouble. Not a person who would freak out or rationalize...but a person who speaks facts, no matter how painful they are. THAT'S the person I wanna be. That's the person I want as a friend. ALL of what I said NOW is my opinion...agree or disagree. It's MY opinion.
 

TomB

Administrator
Staff member
Originally posted by DÛke
Tell ya what - why don't we ban Gizmo? No, no. Even better. Ban me. Ban Lotus Mox. Ban Duel...and while you're at it, let's ban Zadok and Istanbul too. Hey, include FoR to that recipe. Hey, we mostly all agree about the logic of the issue; heck, even Zadok agrees with Gizmo (therefore with me) about mostly everything. Open your eyes and see - Gizmo and I aren't alone on this anymore...

...but like the tragedy, there's no solution except war, right? Just ban us. That's the quickest solution to the problem that doesn't even exist...

I would have won your vote if I said: "Damn with the world, nuke everyone!" After all, I don't see you saying anything about extremes like that. Yes. You're right. War is the only solution. Nuke them.
Don't be an oink, DÛke. I didn't say to ban anyone, not even for using profanity like Gizmo did. All I said was, basically, if he wants to leave I'll hold the door open, and shed not one tear over it.

And as to why I haven't said anything to the ones who say "Damn with the world, nuke everyone!", well, in all honesty I've been ignoring them, since it'll never happen. They just need to blow off steam and clear their heads, and this is just their way of doing it.

You can't tell me this is you're way...:rolleyes:
 
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Daggertooth

Guest
you must understand that there is so much emotion with the american public. Statements like, "Eating popcorn as I was watching the disastor." (not a direct quote) Are seen as anti-american. And even those borderline and perhaps not even are taken far out of context.

People are angry. A few days ago if you said we Diserved this I would have been insulted. Still might be. The facts are painful, salt on a fresh laseration. You can't expect everyone to be able to take it in the context in which is should.



Daggertooth
 
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Dementia

Guest
What purpose do these facts he is stating serve other then to upset us?

No matter how much we know the facts Duke....You think if you can get Griffith to think the way you do that she can stop the killing that is gonna happen? Do you think that?

All these arguments serves no purpose is what I am trying to say. Why can't we just act like people instead of marketing reps all trying to sell people what the facts are. If you are set on stating facts then why don't you say.....

It is a tragedy what happened on tuesday. I hope it never happens again.

And leave it at that. If the arguments served a purpose then I would be able to stand seeing them. But no one on these boards has a say in what is gonna happen Duke.

Please tell me. What do you hope to accomplish by this? What purpose does it serve?
 
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DÛke

Guest
...Dementia. Like everyone going crazy being natural, reacting to different posts is natural also. IT WILL NOT ACCOMPLISH ANYTHING. People here and everywhere were speaking wrong facts and blaming others...as a visitor of this site, do you think I should just sit down and shut up? No. No. Not me. If nobody has opened their big mouths, I wouldn't have said a thing. Don't blame me, I only reacted. Go find those who acted. Those who put down more blame by accusing me and others of being things we're not. Those are the people you need to be having a word with.

TomB, then why do you care about what I say? Does what I'm saying seem so realistic or something that it just maybe real? Because it is man. I have better things to do than to sit down and try to impress you with lies. You just think I'm being an oinkhole. Think again.
 
D

Dementia

Guest
I know it is hard Duke, but yes, in your own words I think you should sit down and shut up.

I pretty much feel the same way as you do! Do you know why I haven't said anything? Because this is not the time. I think the people on this site should be allowed to vent here without being told how wrong they are.

As nothing about this whole oinking thing is simple niether is what I am talking about I suppose. You are upset about this too Duke....and telling the people how you feel on the subject is the way you make yourself feel better.

There is no simple answer I suppose:(

Debate on, but everytime you insult someone remember that you are making this situation harder for me. If you care that is.

Edit: Hehe.....whoops.....didn't know that word would show up. Can't tell ya how long I have been waiting to see one of my posts with THAT word in it:D

Wish it wouldn't be because of what happened:(
 

TomB

Administrator
Staff member
Originally posted by DÛke
TomB, then why do you care about what I say? Does what I'm saying seem so realistic or something that it just maybe real? Because it is man. I have better things to do than to sit down and try to impress you with lies. You just think I'm being an a$$hole. Think again.
I never said you lied either, man. If anything, I think you should have realized we are in no way rational enough right now to discuss it!

Just drop it already...
 

Killer Joe

New member
I can empathize with different views, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with them.
I say let's not differentiate between the ACTUAL groups who did this and the people who supported them. Let's go get 'em before their laughter at us becomes deafining!
No, we haven't ever asked to have our innocent blown up. Some foreign gov'ts/religions just hate the hell out of us, and there's not squat we can do about it. If they would just keep their radicals to themselves that would be okay with me.
You don't hear about our "Trailer Trash" rednecks going over to the Mid-East and blowing up their innocent do you? No. They do it to us, instead (OK City '95).
We never asked for it, and I did try to see it the other way, but failed.
Gizmo: See ya, good luck in professional magic, maybe one day I'll meet you in person.
Griff: You are the epitome of "American Patriotism" and I admire that.
 
F

FoundationOfRancor

Guest
Lets get one thing straight...

I dont agree with Duke.
 
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DÛke

Guest
...

Lets get one thing straight...

FoR never even made an ignorant comment to me about this issue. For that, I respect him more than I ever thought. It's not about agreement and disagreement. No. It's about respecting each other...something we've lost, so it seems.

Thank you Casey for respecting me enough. :)
 
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Apollo

Guest
...I'm your friend Dementia, and you know me. Everyone was giving out their opinion. Gizmo didn't agree, so he gave out his opinion. Is it his fault that he has a different opinion? I hope not.

You know who started these "flame" wars? Not me. Not Gizmo. Not us people that're viewed as anti-American, racist...or what have you. All we did is voice OUR opinion calmly, and you know what the reaction was? More violent and insulting then the tragedy. All of the sudden, people couldn't handle Gizmo's opinion. They think I'm just stirring up trouble. Gizmo did not reply with such offensive-ness, niether have I...
No. No, no, no. I’m afraid you have it wrong here, DUke. People did not flame Gizmo because of his opinion. Most of us here respect your right to your ideas and feelings, and respect your right to share them. In fact, I’d say that most of us have no problem with you. I know I don’t have a problem with you. I don’t entirely agree with your opinion, but it is your opinion, you care about it a lot, and you have posted it in a pretty reasonable fashion.

But Gizmo has not posted it in a reasonable fashion. Gizmo did not “voice his opinion calmly.” Gizmo is intentionally antagonizing us, for no apparent reason.

He has, to name a few instances:

Said that he “sat down with a bowl of popcorn to watch the towers fall”.
Called people names, used profanity repeatedly
Said that he wished more would have happened. Said that He wished more bombs would have hit, more planes would have come.
Called us sheep
Called us “spoilt children”
And more or less said that we deserved it

Now, he made this post, although he knew full well that nobody would delete the account. He is once again just trying to cause turmoil.

He has been the instigator of nearly every fight he has been involved in. The pattern typically goes like this:

Thread starts.
Somebody posts that they are angry about the attack.
Gizmo replies, swearing at the person or calling them names
Person, now angry at Gizmo, replies, argues his case.
Gizmo ignores arguments, flames away, and then tells us all how disgusted he is with us.

Frankly, this man seems to have no purpose in mind other than getting everybody mad. How some people can’t see that, I have no idea.
 
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