S.F. Gives finger to Feds, Ok's same sex marriages...

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Reverend Love, Feb 14, 2004.

  1. mythosx Legendary Creature-Human

    you brought up jews and muslims...BOTH ARE RACES.. you stick to the topic.

    No one hates either of the groups for thier beliefs, they don't like them cuz what they look like or their success. When's the last time a muslim got beat in the face or a jew had a swastika burned in their front lawn for reading their respective scriptures.

    And yes I have been called names cuz of being a christian. I can't say I have ever been beat by anyone for my views yet. But then again I work out on a daily basis and it shows.

    Everyone celebrates holidays. With the exception of Easter, America doesn't celebrate any proper christian holidays. You can say we celebrate christmas, but I am pretty darned sure that Jesus wasn't born on that day.

    Aethism is the true national religion, because of seperation of church and state. And please don't clump president bush into the christian camp. He isn't, he is a nut. Just cuz he says he is doesn't make it so.
  2. Istanbul Sucker MCs call me sire.

    No, Judaism and Islam are RELIGIONS. Black, white, Asian, Hispanic, those are races.

    "No one hates either of the groups for thier beliefs,"
    - Wow...you really ARE out of touch.

    "With the exception of Easter, America doesn't celebrate any proper christian holidays. You can say we celebrate christmas, but I am pretty darned sure that Jesus wasn't born on that day."
    - Really. Next time the mail doesn't come on Christmas, I'll keep that in mind.

    "And please don't clump president bush into the christian camp. He isn't, he is a nut."
    - He is a Christian nut. Religion is about what you believe, not how sane you are for believing it.

    "Aethism is the true national religion, because of seperation of church and state."
    - Only on paper. Or haven't you ever wondered why businesses open late and close early on Sunday? Haven't you ever wondered why the mail doesn't come on Sunday?

    Open your eyes.
  3. mythosx Legendary Creature-Human

    Jews are the descendent of Abrahams second son, Muslims are pretty much the descendents of Abrahams first son. Don't believe go look it up. Most 'jews' don't even follow the Jewish teachings. They are races, not religions.

    IF you claim people hate you for your religion you have to give me some examples. Don't just start throwing around insults. I want hard facts.

    Just because the government doesn'T work on a day doesn't mean we celebrate it. For example I can't even mention Jesus on christmas day to anyone because I can get sued.

    President bush is really a nut. He claims to be some whack job savior which is contrary to christian teachings. It would be like me saying I'm the queen of england. Just cuz I say I am doesn't make it true.

    Business close late on sunday cuz it is traditional to have a two day weekend. Sunday isn't even the day people are supposed to go to church if you are a true christian. So your arguement isn't valid. If you really want to give up your sunday to work more, by all mean go for it. I don't think your bosses will try to stop you.

    You think.
  4. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Remember, I said "written" :). Moses is obviously part of Genesis so is a bit separate from when the stories actually arose versus written.

    I'm forgot what you mean by what is against the law. Gay marriage? If so, just because there's a law doesn't mean it's right. There are plenty of examples of that.
  5. chocobo_cid Thyme Devourer

    This is true in a skewed kind of way. I have a good friend that is convinced that he is "Jewish" only by decent. Of course, he's a raging atheist and is not representative of any population of "Jews;" he does not practice any of the practices commonly referred to as Jewish like the kosher laws or keeping the Sabbath holy.

    However, when people think about "Jews" they think about "Jews vs. Arabs" and conflict in the middle east. Thus, in the common context, people think of the endless religous disputes, thus Judaism is generally thought of as the religion.

    Thus, you're wrong.

    Umm... that's his signature.
  6. Istanbul Sucker MCs call me sire.

    "Jews are the descendent of Abrahams second son, Muslims are pretty much the descendents of Abrahams first son. Don't believe go look it up. Most 'jews' don't even follow the Jewish teachings. They are races, not religions."
    - No, they are religions. Look up the definitions of race and religion and you'll see that I'm correct. Faith has nothing to do with what race you are.

    "IF you claim people hate you for your religion you have to give me some examples. Don't just start throwing around insults. I want hard facts."
    - Okay, back up.
    #1: I never claimed that people hate me for my religion.
    #2: I never threw around insults.
    #3: You're obviously taking this WAY too personally.

    "Just because the government doesn'T work on a day doesn't mean we celebrate it. For example I can't even mention Jesus on christmas day to anyone because I can get sued."
    - You can get sued for anything, including hurting someone's feelings. I'm assuming that you're referring to a work situation. In this case, your workplace probably says that simply to avoid offending anyone or indicating religious preference. Of course, your job and the government are two very different things. But yes, the fact is that most government services are not open on Sundays so that Christian people can go to their Christian churches. Look up the old blue laws.

    "President bush is really a nut. He claims to be some whack job savior which is contrary to christian teachings. It would be like me saying I'm the queen of england. Just cuz I say I am doesn't make it true."
    - I never said whether he was or wasn't the savior. I said that he is a very vocal Christian. Whether he's sane or crazy, he's still Christian. (I'm not sure what that has to do with anything, but it's true.)

    "Business close late on sunday cuz it is traditional to have a two day weekend. Sunday isn't even the day people are supposed to go to church if you are a true christian. So your arguement isn't valid. If you really want to give up your sunday to work more, by all mean go for it. I don't think your bosses will try to stop you."
    - And that tradition sprang forth from the old blue laws, which were based on the Christian religion. Look it up. Regardless, businesses close EARLY on Sunday, not late. And based on the organization of the Christian calendar, a two-day weekend would make more sense as Friday-Saturday, not Saturday-Sunday. The only reason it's the latter and not the former is so that Christian people can go to church.

    But hey, if you're desperate to be persecuted, be persecuted. Whatever you say. You've obviously decided to take this debate to heart as a personal attack. I won't return to the thread again.
  7. mythosx Legendary Creature-Human

    You are right. And that is the topic at hand. However, In this case. It is against the law, But I have no reason for supporting these lawbreakers at this time. Nothing in my religion or other belief systems inclines me to support this wrong doing.
  8. Notepad Seffy Sefro

    I really agree with the rest of your points, and the Sunday thing is quite true in a ton of government office cases. However, a lot of commercial businesses operate no or low hours because of the customer demographic being religious. If everyone's at church or is observing a sacred day, then some types of business aren't going to see much foot traffic. Also, Sunday is regularly a layover day for Saturday's funtimes (folks with hangovers tend to stay home rather than go shopping). Additionally, Sunday suffers from being the day right before work starts again, making people much less likely to enjoy the day and spend good money like they would on, oh, let's say Saturday.

    But yes, the whole reason Sunday is even a weekend day is for religious reasons, so though the direct choice isn't always based on religion, the religious traditions are heavy affecting the current business-based "no business on Sunday" decisions.

    Not that I'm countering that whole point. Just that I wanted to say that in that matter, religion isn't always the direct basis. (Secondary or tertiary, yes...but not primary. The shop owners aren't there going "Gee I missed church today. Maybe I should close early to make up for it.") ;)
  9. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    You seem to be switching your reasoning here. First you said it was wrong because it was against religious teaching, and now you're saying it's wrong because it's against the law. So if the law changes, you'll support it?

    SeFRo: This is probably a regurgitation of what you said, but Isty was saying the Sunday thing was rooted in religion since during the country's Founding, it was much more religious than now. Presently, of course it makes more sense for business to remain open on Sunday, but the roots were from religion (who knows, maybe it made sense back then too, but like I said, the country as a whole took religion more seriously).
  10. train The Wildcard!!!...

    I don't think religion is taken less seriously, I think it is just more questioned, and since people don't have their answers, they wait in limbo... living life as it is, and that's it...

    in all - let them marry who they want ot marry - if that person accept the proposal...;)
  11. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    It IS taken less seriously; back then, Sunday was pretty much reserved as God's Day. Services lasted all morning (we're talking one service about 3-4 hours) and everyone stayed for socializing and eating dinner. You don't see that nowadays... people want their service to last an hour and then it's go go go...
  12. train The Wildcard!!!...

    I can see part of that as being true - but down here - the South... a lot of churches do the all morning - then afternoon thing - so maybe it's more regional...

    The south is mainly conservative you know...;)
  13. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    That's true, that's why I said "in general" to cover myself. I figured the South might still have such things...

    Of course, the country was a lot smaller back then :)
  14. train The Wildcard!!!...

    hadn't thought of the smaller bit... and it was more regional in that case...

    I have to remmeber that texas is it's own country sometimes...

    I keep forgetting that...

    ;) :p
  15. chocobo_cid Thyme Devourer

    The south was once a much smaller county of its own too.:D
  16. mythosx Legendary Creature-Human

    ok to clear up my stance...

    religiously, its wrong for me to support this,
    legally, its wrong for me to support this,
    timewise, its wrong for me to support this,
    productively, its wrong for me to support this,
    financially, its wrong for me to support this.

    I have no reason to support this. No one has provided a single argument or reason for me to support this. It seems that the public education system has done a good job of telling people that everything is ok.

    With tossing all this sunday talk around. I am going to clear this up. Christianity is technically not its own religion, in its truest sense it is a sect of Judaism. The sabbath which is the holy day of the week is technically Saturday. Catholicism changed it for various reasons, and the protestants are and were either too lazy to change it back when they left or most people just don't know the truth.
  17. chocobo_cid Thyme Devourer

    "This" meaning the aforementioned same-sex marriages, right?



    ([looks at location] Someone in California against same-sex marriages! Heaven Forbid!)
  18. mythosx Legendary Creature-Human

    yes...

    haha...i know, i get a ton of flack the instant i say im a christian...happens alot in college.

    They might string me alive next time im in S.F.
  19. train The Wildcard!!!...

    mythosx - legally it is not wrong for you to support this - ammendments say so...
    religiously - not if you're methodist... ;)
    financially - check with your accountant...
    timewise and productively - I can understand...

    as for the calendar - the catholics didn't change it for various reasons - they adopted a calendar, and just placed it on the first day of that week - "as it was in the beginning..."

    (I should've clarified terms of adoption for this calendar... mythosx did later...)
  20. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    No, Methodists voted last week or so to not support gay marriages either...

    mythosx: Not sure how timewise, productivitywise, and financialwise that is relevant to the discussion.

    Religiouswise? Can see why but a host of questions crop up, such mainly what is the basis?

    Legalwise? The way I see it, that's just an oversight, just like how it wasn't legal for women to vote until early 20th century or how it was legal to own another person. The law just hasn't caught up to it yet.

    The basic question is: Why shouldn't you support it? You have two people in love and want to commit to each other for the rest of their life. Why should they be discriminated and not offered the same rights as heteros who are in the same situation?

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