S.F. Gives finger to Feds, Ok's same sex marriages...

Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Reverend Love, Feb 14, 2004.

  1. train The Wildcard!!!...

    thanks for the info on the methodists spidey - hadn't heard that yet...

    (good to know it was just last week, and I'm not waaaayyyy behind...):cool:
  2. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Well, week or two ago. Not sure of the exact time frame, but it was fairly recent.

    They also consequently voted to keep the church together and try to work the change within for the next conference...
  3. train The Wildcard!!!...

    I just remembered why you have knowledge on this...


  4. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Actually, I don't follow it too closely, I just saw it in the newspaper :)
  5. chocobo_cid Thyme Devourer

    That's actually not a technically correct statement. Many states allowed women to vote in municipal, state, and county elections long before the 19th amendment in 1919. All the 19th amendment did was to guarantee the right to vote in federal (and otherwise) elections.

    Considering that you're using women's right to vote as a parallel, there might be some interesting additional parallels in the future.;)
  6. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Thanks for the correction.

    Are you saying that it will be states first to legalize gay marriages before it moves up to the federal level?
  7. chocobo_cid Thyme Devourer

    Perhaps, but not as widely as it was for voting rights. Considering the magnitude of religious opposition, this will take longer. Religous feuds end in... well, they rarely end. SEE: Middle East.
  8. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Well, hopefully it won't devolve into violence between the different flavors of Christianity like it has between the Shiite and other branch of Islam... (I say Christianity because they're at the forefront)
  9. chocobo_cid Thyme Devourer

    The other (major) branch of Islam is Sunni. They split apart when the caliph after Mohammed (Ali) was assassinated. Shiite literally means "supporters of Ali."

    As for your post, I'd have to say that I concur wholeheartedly, though I meant conflict between Israel and everyone else, not between the two major Muslim sects.:D
  10. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    I thought you meant that, but I was trying to more relate it to what might happen in the US, since the various religions here aren't at each others throats regarding gay marriages. "Strife" between Christians though would seem more likely, if it came to that.
  11. chocobo_cid Thyme Devourer

    So there isn't strife between sects of christianity in the US over homosexual marriages?


    I know what you're thinking, just giving you a hard time.
  12. mythosx Legendary Creature-Human

    If your not a christian I cant really toss the bible at you. If you are, then the bible is really clear on what is considered sexually immoral or preverted.

    The biggest gripes of the gays are that they are oppressed. I don't see it. If they are referring to tax breaks then I have a big problem with that. If the only reason they are getting married is for the tax breaks. That kind of breaks down the whole 2 people in love bit huh? I would rather relinqush my takes breaks when I get married so that they don't whine about this. Most homosexual couples I know aren't into managomous relationships anyways. That probably wasn't spelled right. Don't hold that against me.

    The Catholics changed their day of worship for many reasons. Some are to celebrate christ's ressurrection, to allow romans who worshipped the sun god an easier transition, and becuase they claimed they could. They actually have a document asserting the last one. It's kind of whacky. It's not right though. Last day of the week, which is saturday technically should be the day christians go to church. Unless of course you agree with the Catholic church which claims the pope is on equal footing with God.
  13. Notepad Seffy Sefro

    Good point. You seemed to have hit the whole solution on the head! If church and state are to be separate, then the state must not give legal benefits to married couples. They should be able to say "Yeah, you wanna be monogamous, but we aren't gonna give you rights over it" and that way marriage can remain in the hands of religious institutions.

    Who on earth is teaching you about gay people? Hello! A great many have entered into monogamous unions, which is what this whole issue is about--they want recognition legally. Just because you may know a few gay folks who are "players" doesn't mean crap. I know a whole hell of a lot of straight people who are "players" as well. It is a youth culture thing, and not a gay thing.

    In case anybody is confused over this--as I see it all the time--Catholics ARE Christians. In fact, they are the original Christians. It is all the Protestant sects that broke off from having problems with Catholicism.
  14. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    It shouldn't matter whether I'm a Christian or not, but nominally I am.

    As far as I know, there's only one place in the Bible that explicitly condemns homosexuality and that's in a section that has a bunch of other "outdated" laws or proclamations. In addition, I would rather see something from the New Testament or Jesus' teachings that condemn homsexuality, since he supercedes a lot of teachings from the Old Testament (like instead of "eye for an eye", it's "turn the other cheek" and "love thy neighbor").

    I hate to break it to you, but even if it is for the "tax breaks" (which I really doubt, there's a heck of "better" benefits to being married than that), hetero couple do it for the same reasons. Heck, you have immigrants getting married to citizens just so THEY can get their green card or be legalized or whatever.

    Same thing with monogamous relationship: heteros face the same issues.

    In short, so far your reasons for being against gay marriages equally hold up for being against hetero marriages.
  15. mythosx Legendary Creature-Human

    I am equally against marriages of convience. And yes I am against those people who don't hold their marital vows. As for homosexuality in the new testament, Check out what Paul says in Romans. It's Jesus doesn't explicitly address the issue because no one brought it up. It's like this would you bring up a fundemental truth with everyone else is asking deeper questions like forgiveness and the nature of God? It would be like stepping into a college level math class and asking the teacher what is 3+4.
  16. Notepad Seffy Sefro

    Um...hold on there a sec. Are you saying that since it isn't addressed, that it means it is even more true on an elementary level than the things that are addressed?

    Hot damn, I think I'll go urinate all over the side of the churches I see. That isn't addressed, so I guess it means doing so is so fundamentally right I have full priviledge to do so without ever needing to ask.
  17. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Thanks for clarifying that.

    I'll check out what Paul says in Romans, but my gut question is: Is this Paul[/b]'s reaction or stance or is it Jesus/Gods? Yes, Paul could be filled with the Holy Spirit and be speaking for Jesus/God, but we all know people claim to be "speaking for God" to justify their view.

    Obviously it's in the Bible or was deemed important enough to be included, so at some point, if you believe, you're gonna take it as "gospel" so it is probably unproductive to discuss it further if that's the basis...
  18. chocobo_cid Thyme Devourer

    Uh oh! It looks like Catholics are the big bad boogie man! Though, like most of your arguments, the thing about the Pope, which is apparently something that you use to hold Catholics in contempt, is wrong. The correct belief is not that the Pope is equal to God, but that the Pope is the represenative of God and is infallible on matters of church doctrine.

    The Pope is not equal to God. Sorry, that's just a little pet peeve of mine. :rolleyes:
  19. mythosx Legendary Creature-Human

    I know he isn't equal but he claims to be. For example, to claim that one is infallible no matter what is a load of garbage. Secondly, he claims to be an intercessor between man and God like all catholic priests do. Lastly, the popes official title is Vicar, Son of God. Ever wonder why you refer to the clergy as holy fathers?
  20. Istanbul Sucker MCs call me sire.

    I know I said I wouldn't come back to this topic, but...

    mythosx, let me paraphrase what you're saying, and you tell me if I have the gist of it.

    "I believe that Christianity says that homosexuality is wrong. Therefore, I feel that homosexual should not enjoy the same rights as heterosexual couples. Homosexuals tend to sleep around, so that makes it okay to oppress them by denying them the hundred or so privileges that heterosexual married couples enjoy.

    In other words, because I feel that homosexuality is wrong, I should be able to force my beliefs upon them and deny them the rights that I enjoy. This follows in the grand tradition of refusing blacks and women the rights that they currently enjoy for so long. While I may have to eventually tolerate equality, I will enjoy oppressing this minority for as long as I am able."

    Does that about sum it up?


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