Keywords - Sunburst?

[train]

counterspell...

C - ome
O - n
U -
N - on-blue player,
T - ry
E - very
R - eprinted
S - pell
P - ossible.
E - ach
L - oses
L - uster

when islands are on the board...

Tim - he's not quite so bad... why - because he gets reipped a new one without counter support...

"Ping"...

no...

"Pork!"

 

[Notepad]

Originally posted by Spiderman
but it was easier to find and play people who DID follow the rules than not (why? who knows... maybe because tourneys were still "new" back then and there wasn't a Pro Tour, people just wanted to try their skills against others in an organized setting).

As a player who was around since Legends, I have a little insight into my region's rules. Many players were (and still are) casual players, who never attended a tournament and never had any aspirations to do so. The tournament rules, as a published resource for reference, provided common ground for players when playing against new groups. Familiarity and cross-market saturation of these rules were why people followed them for the most part, especially for casual games.

This is because playing with local rules could be fun, but it made playing other groups difficult. House rules in one shop could confuse the hell out of a new customer, so everyone just went with the easiest course, and that was to follow those rules in the back of Scrye, Duelist and Inquest.

 

[chocobo_cid]

Originally posted by train
Tim - he's not quite so bad... why - because he gets reipped a new one without counter support...

"Ping"...

no...

"Pork!"

You've obviously never been on the buisness side of the Machine Gun! (Horseshoe Crab + Hermetic Study + either High Tide or tolarian academy)

 

[Oversoul]

Originally posted by Spiderman
The reason why the tourney rules seem to impact everyone goes back to why tourney rules were needed in the first place and people's decisions to follow them.

Because Magic was just starting out and WOTC didn't realize the impact that having more than 1 type of rare in a deck would have on deck construction, decks were "broken" in the early days. Hence, for tourney play, to make it fairer, rules were issued such as the Rule of 4 and the Banned/Restriction List. Non-tourney players were not bound to follow those rules (as Oversoul can attest ), but it was easier to find and play people who DID follow the rules than not (why? who knows... maybe because tourneys were still "new" back then and there wasn't a Pro Tour, people just wanted to try their skills against others in an organized setting).

This has been carried on since the beginning, so whatever decisions are made from tourneys inevitable carry over to non-tourney play. But non-tourney players DO have a voice - the gold cards coming back in Invasion(?) was attributed to non-tourney players speaking up and everyone has a line to WOTC/Mark Rosewater and can speak up (presumably, that isn't just tourney players who have either the majority of Net access or go to WOTC's site and have an interest enough to respond to issues...)

Well, non-tourney players ARE subject to the rule of four though. It is part of the rules of the game. The banned/restricted lists of the various formats are only applicable in those formats though (although, as Spiderman can attest) many players go out of their way to build decks that adhere to one or more of those lists.

 

[Spiderman]

You're correct, sorry for lumping those two together. I was just throwing out examples of how the game changed originally to how the tourney influenced it.

 

[chocobo_cid]

Originally posted by Oversoul
Well, non-tourney players ARE subject to the rule of four though. It is part of the rules of the game.

I wish I could convince a friend of mine that. He has about 10 pacifisms whenever I only have 4 disenchants.

 

[Istanbul]

The answer is simple. Play this deck:

16x Mountain
4x Forgotten Cave
40x Lightning Bolt (or Shock)

And when he complains, tell him that if he doesn't have to follow the rules, you don't either.

That'll straighten him out.

 

[chocobo_cid]

Not Shock. Firebolt. (However, that last post only introduced an anecdotal problem, it did not asking for a solution.)

 

[mythosx]

i recommend

20x mountains
20x solrings
10x fireballs
10x wheel of fortunes

fun for the whole family.

 

[train]

You've obviously never been on the buisness side of the Machine Gun! (Horseshoe Crab + Hermetic Study + either High Tide or tolarian academy)

I was on the business side - I brought humbles to the meeting... with a little shock action...

 

[Oversoul]

It's in the rules somewhere to be sure, the exact number escapes me right now, and I'm way too lazy to look it up...

So I don't see why you would need to build some insane deck just to show your friend...

Although I did do that with proxy cards...

But then again the one guy still plays with proxies all the time...

 

[mythosx]

you should rip up his proxies...its not like it cost him anything.

 

[Oversoul]

Heh, hadn't thought of that...

I guess I shouldn't. He's a nice guy and all mostly...

...then again, I'm not...

 

[Notepad]

Originally posted by Istanbul
And when he complains, tell him that if he doesn't have to follow the rules, you don't either.

That'll straighten him out.

And excellent point! And it actually does work, too. Back in the days when card sleeves were illegal in the DCI (or, DC as it was known then) there was this guy who bought a few moxes and a lotus, and he proxied them in a cased deck rather than bring them to school.

My answer--Bring out my 40-card plague rat deck. He whined that my deck was illegal (on two fronts) and I argued that his deck was just as illegal (two rules broken as well) so he caved.

I remember him saying something like:
"You actually want me to play with my Black Lotus in a deck with no cases?!"

Well, yeah, if we're playing DC rules here.

 

[chocobo_cid]

Speaking of the DCI, when is your lisence/whatever unrevoked?

 

[mythosx]

well try this one oversoul...tell him that proxies are illegal. He is duplicating intillectual property from wizards of the coast with out explicit permission. You would be doing your civil duty to report and/or stop him. I.E. ripping up the paper that he uses for proxies...

 

[chocobo_cid]

What if he's using his Magic cards as proxies, he's still duplicating intellectual property, but would you still rip them up?

 

[Oversoul]

Writing "Yawmoth's Bargain" on an Island isn't duplicating intellectual property...

 

[mythosx]

If he wrote yawmoth no...If he wrote Yawgmoth then yes. Actually, wizards could pursue legal action against him. But it would be pointless seeing as they would only be able to shake down a quarter and would pay millions of dollars in legal fees.

 

[Oversoul]

On what grounds would they sue him? He wasn't trying to sell it or claim it as his own. He just wrote it down. If I copy down, by hand, an entire novel, it's still legal as far as I know. Now, if I sell it, that's different...

Plus they wouldn't be able to prove that he wrote the words himself, well, they might, but then again, maybe not...