FULL Apocalypse Spoiler.

M

Mr_Pestilence

Guest
Re: Spiritmonger - really, really good, but not broken. OK, OK, probably broken in limited, but in constructed, where there's too much counter, bounce, Terminate, etc. - the same problems afflicting Phyrexian Scuta.

I still want 4, though. B/G is probably my favorite color combo. I also want all of the B/G Powder Kegs I can get.

And on that subject, why are the allied dual lands Uncommons that don't deal damage, while the opposed dual lands are Rares that damage you? At least they don't CIP tapped.
 
M

Mundungu

Guest
Mr_Pestilence :
the allied dual are the same as the enemy dual.
Thei're all the same pain lands.
the allied are also rare BTW.

Duel:
show me why Terminate can't deal wiht the monger.
He sure is a beat stick and undercosted.
But one regenerator will take care of it, no matter how big.
 
S

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
I'm not complaining Symbiotic Deployment is BAD, I'm just saying someone's crying "fire" when there's a whiff of smoke :)

And did anyone d/l my zip file? How does it look? Is it formatted and not a bunch of lines?
 
Z

Zadok001

Guest
Well, actually, Wash Out works - You choose the color on resolution. You won't bounce anything BUT Das Uber Monger, but you WILL bounce the Monger.
 
C

Chaos Turtle

Guest
To clarify Duel's post (I too did a double-take) I'm sure he means the hyphen to be a minus-sign, meaning that with the exception of Terminate, black removal can't kill Spirit Monger. Likewise with Incinerate and Terminate (and Scorching Lava) being the only red spells capable of removing it.

Other Type 2 cards that can deal with Spirit Monger:

Topple (almost certain to be the biggest guy on the board)
Afterlife
Avatar of Woe :p
Reprisal
Tsabo's Assassin (reasonably sure green will be the most common color)

There may be more.
 
E

ErinPuff

Guest
I hate Spiritmonger, and I want four of them! And then I'll slap a Cloak on each one.. :D
 
M

Mundungu

Guest
other "things" that can deal with the monger :

Tsabo's decree
Meekstone
shackles
pacifism
any "tapper"
Armadillo cloak

there will be some more I'm sure.
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
Originally posted by Spiderman
Symbiotic Deployment and Saproling Cluster.

You're discarding two cards to draw ONE card. How is this good? Am I missing an unnamed card in the combo or something?
Click to expand...
But you're not discarding two cards to draw one card.

First, let's note that we're playing green. We've probably already got, let's say, three creatures in play.
Tap two of them. Draw.
Pay 1, discard that card, make a token. We now have four creatures in play.
Tap the remaining two. Draw.
Pay 1, discard that card, make a token. We now have five creatures in play.
Next turn.

Tap two creatures. Draw.
Pay 1, discard that card, make a token. We now have six creatures in play.
Tap two of them. Draw.
Pay 1, discard that card, make a token. We now have seven creatures in play.
Tap two of them. Draw.
Pay 1, discard that card, make a token. We now have eight creatures in play.
Tap two of them. Draw.
Pay 1, discard that card, make a token. We now have nine creatures in play.
Next turn.

Tap two creatures. Draw.
Pay 1, discard that card, make a token. We now have ten creatures in play.
Tap two of them. Draw.
Pay 1, discard that card, make a token. We now have eleven creatures in play.
Tap two of them. Draw.
Pay 1, discard that card, make a token. We now have twelve creatures in play.
Tap two of them. Draw.
Pay 1, discard that card, make a token. We now have thirteen creatures in play.
Tap two of them. Draw.
Pay 1, discard that card, make a token. We now have fourteen creatures in play.
Tap two of them. Draw.
Pay 1, discard that card, make a token. We now have fifteen creatures in play.
Tap two of them. Draw.
Pay 1, discard that card, make a token. We now have sixteen creatures in play.
Tap two of them. Draw.
Pay 1, discard that card, make a token. We now have seventeen creatures in play.

So, in the space of three turns, we've gone from three creatures to SEVENTEEN. Where's that Stampede Driver...
 
T

terzarima

Guest
Don't forget about the amount of cards you actually have, plus the mana cost, I don't really think you want to just do this all friggin game...
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
"All friggin' game" could quite plausibly last no more than five or six turns if you can get both halves of the combo into play, along with two creatures.
 
S

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Forgive me if I seem skeptical.

That scenario sure does look good when you're playing against a goldfish. And when do you do all of this? At the opponent's EOT so you can maximize the benefits? Your turn, so you can't attack or block the next turn?

So if your opponent attacks you, you're just gonna let it through? 'Cause if you block, chances are that you're NOT going to get the 17 creatures in three turns (most likely you'll be dead or hovering near it in that time if you do that).

And you need 8 mana by that third turn! The only card I know that can keep up is Gaea's Cradle, so you need to add a third card to that combo (and I don't think it's Standard anymore, is it? If that was the Type we're talking about)

As I said, it's a nifty combo. But I remain skeptical that this is a "Omigod!" type of thing that you are implying (since you've singled it out).
 
M

Mundungu

Guest
The symbiosis is some good with Elfhame sanctuary.

you get at least one land in play each turn, thinning your library while drawing one or more cards during your opp EOT.

Sounds like the best card advantage green ever had so far.
of course the combo is "heavy" and you still need a way to win, but I would give a lot to have a land drop each turn PLUS a new card or two.

My scenario would be the following.
t1:forest, bird or elf
t2:forest, elf, bird or wall (treillis?), elham sanctuary.
t3:search for a land if none in hand. Forest.
Opp. eot tap 2 creat to draw a card.

Eventually search for the "beatsticks" (spirit monger anyone ?) Shivan wurm or other ...
The sanctuary gives a lot of mana, and the deck has enough small chump blocker.

Use saproling cluster if necessary,
if playing BG discard creatures to play avatar of woes

I think some good stuff can me made from that card.
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
I'm not saying that the combo is enough to necessarily warrant building a deck around it. But if it gets going, it *is* a very potent combo. Even if you chump-block a little bit, your army still grows, albeit just a bit more slowly.

Of course, Symbiotic Deployment fits into a ton of other decks too. I've heard stories of Elf decks being made; perhaps Symbiotic Deployment can help there, too.
 
Z

Zadok001

Guest
A lot of people have been telling me Spiritmonger isn't that bad. Allow me to clarify my position - THAT THING IS FRICKIN' HUGE!

Let me put it this way: Spiritmonger is one of the few cards in Type 2 that is absolutely amazing - Regardles of what environment you put it in! It doesn't matter what else is legal, Spiritmonger will STILL be amazing. Baa-ROKEN! Not "Ban Me" broken, but Lin Sivvi/Conspiracy on the second turn broken.
 
D

Duel

Guest
Right. I wasn't convinced that spiritmonger was that great, but then I Zadok showed me the light.
First:
Morphling = Damn good creature
Morphling = 3/3 with 5 abilities. 2 of them are excellent (flying and untargetability) one is good (untap), two are mediocre (flowstone effects)
Spiritmonger = 6/6 with three abilities. 2 of them are good (regenerating, change color) one of them is decent (chump pump)

It traded off two bad abilities for +3/+3

PLUS: First turn birds, second turn swamp, ritual spiritmonger. Win.

AND: Whoever plays this in a draft wins. Just wins.
 
S

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Isty: Okay, that's all I was saying. Now that I think about it though, I guess I couldn't tell if the original emphasis was on making the creatures or drawing the card. It seems it's the former...

It'd be too bad if Spiritmonger is the new "must-have" creature so most every deck gonna pack some. That's one of the requirements to get it on the watch list, if not banned. So stock up but be prepared...
 
C

Cateran Emperor

Guest
Worry not there Spidey, Monger can only go in decks that have access to both B and G. Therefore, it'll get expensive, but not Masticore absurdity levels.
 
G

Gizmo

Guest
Finally got round to getting myself a spoiler, the set generally appears to be pretty unispiring (is it just me or is the entire set full of 2/2 guys? For 2cc you get a 2/2, for 4cc you get ... a 2/2)...

Anway, as well as generally being poor there are a few cards that stand out immediately.


Death Grasp. Drain Life is some good I hear.

Dodecapod. If you can put him into play to a 'chosen' discard effect (like Bog Down) then he becomes a very strong card.

Gerrards Verdict. Don`t call it a Hymn, please. Call it 'a very good card that is very competitievly costed' but don`t call it a Hymn.

Life/Death. You only want it for Death, I think, but this sort of effect has been missing from T2 for a while, so it instantly becomes your best way if recurring dead fat guys a'la Zilla.

Minotaur Illusionist. Anybody who can become untargettable is worth a look, this guy is pretty solid..

Mystic Snake. Does this look familar to anybody else, I`m fairly sure we had a Creature-Counter in the CPA set? It`s ok, needs to fly really because the 2/2 you get is pretty much useless, making it just an expensive counterspell, although there are tricks with Equilibrium etc.

Necra Sanctuary. Not amazing, but if you are looking for Bridge cards, then getting down the G and W permanents would give you a very fast kill method.

PERNICIOUS DEED. It`s not a Disk, because Disk got played in mono-blue and mono-black, so it`s not a Disk. It IS, however, by far the best analgoue to the Disk - it will depend on the deck it goes into, possible even getting splashed into a deck that doesn`t really use the green for anything else. Slower and mroe mana intensive than Disk, but it does punish players who overcommit and that is A Good Thing(tm).

Phyrexian Arena. The other power card, a one-sided howler? Yes please, gimme, gimme, gimme.

Spiritmonger. I`m trying very hard to argue this guy around from being stupid. I mean, he IS just a big Carnassid. The abilities aren`t steller - regen seals him off from Red decks, which is nasty, and means you can`t gang-block him away which is far nastier, but then Carnassid had all that. The extra counters shoudn`t be an issue simply because he`s about as fat as he needs to be to begin with. So he changes colour, this would be important if...he wasn`t already Black. He`s black - that`s the big problem and it`s what makes him borderline silly. This card might be enough to force Terminates into the metagame single-handedly.

Suffocating Blast. Very powerful effect, but might not be playable as you need a creature to target. SB certainly. Also I`m not very sure the UR deck is very good.

Symbiotic Deployment. It looks like a combo-able card, maybe it isn`t at the moment but it`ll be around for another 18 months and every new set will have people looking to see if they can break it yet.

Temporal Spring. Should be an instant. Still ok.

Vindicate. The reason Temporal Spring should be instant - just compare the two. Very powerful and the final part of the WB control puzzle.
 
M

Multani

Guest
I have a question regarding Spirit Monger.

IF: Opponent plays Terror on Spirit Monger, and they change the color to black, and the opponent Dark Banishes the Monger again, and assuming the Spirit Monger doesn't change color again, would the Monger die?
 
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