Extended Discussion on Personal Views

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by DÛke, Apr 2, 2003.

  1. train The Wildcard!!!...

    Sure - Soon as we're done with Korea...

    I'm not sure about all America - but God did Bless Texas...

    Preach on!!!...

    I'm not sure about that business... but if you say so...
  2. DÛke Memento Mori


    Weeeee haaaaaaaaaa! Go Texas!

    And I do say that America is the second coming! It is! Come on, it is all said in the Revelations:

    "He is coming with the clouds and everyone will see him"! Or something like dat!

    And America has a lot of air planeeeeeees and shtuff, so see, they are "coming with the clouds" and since no the entire world is stupid and is against amerika, it must mean that "everyone saw it", like "everyone will see him"!

    See, America is coming with the clouds! And everyone will see it! Everyone who perieceees it! And all will wail on the akount of it!

    If it di'dn't say it in the bibble, I aint be the one to beleeve it mah'self!
  3. train The Wildcard!!!...

    What did you do with the real Duke?...

    Get a rope boys!...;)
  4. DÛke Memento Mori


    What...the new duke is 2 good to B true!!!!!!!???????????




    seroussly now! i d'not know how i was able to side with iraq...just think about it:

    1) the u.s. is a world-liberator
    2) the u.s. wants to liberate the world
    5) the u.S. is more rightous then, say, Saddaaam!!!!!! LOL
    3) the U.S. is better to live in.

    All those 9 reasons justify the war!

    and the 17th reason Y the u.s. is justiphied!

    19) the u.s. is a world-liberator

    i believe that any intelignt man can see that these 34 reasons will justify the u.s.'ss action.

    [Edit: for gramer and speling]
  5. Mazzak Stylemongering Protodeity

    <laughs various appendages off>

  6. Ferret CPA Founder, Slacker

    I think someone took over Duke's keyboard - or his brain...he agreed w/ someone and actualy complimented Train and myself...


    "I have never been more frightened in my life..."
  7. Zhaneel Resident Gryphon Queen

    *falls over from a near-lethal stab of sarcasm*

    Nice touch with the chatspeak.
  8. Apollo Bird Boy

    Haha, very nice, DUke. ;)
  9. Astranbrulth New Member

    The thing is, when the USA invaded Afghanistan, it was justified, in that that country's leadership had launched a violent attack on US civilian targets (9/11 obviously). They deserved what came to them. What the hell they thought they were doing in the first place I don't know - attacking a world superpower when your army consists of pick - up trucks is suicide. But they consisted of religious fanatics, so any slight miscalculations in their thinking can be excused on that basis.

    The first Gulf War was justified - Saddam was clearly the aggressor, and he was repaid with interest for his efforts. However, he is (was?) not a religious fanatic by a long stretch of the imagination, and any watchers of the Middle East situation can see that he did zip since the First Gulf War. The threat that he posed to the US is non - existent, (even if he had WMD stocked up to his eyeballs) as any attack on the US would immediately result in his demise. The man is (was??) not an idiot.

    Now, however, we have a country that will be converted to democracy at the point of a gun, through an unjust war that has created only more resentment. Sad thing is, the majority of the people there are Shia muslims, (the sort living in Iran, you know, the country that calls the US 'The Great Satan'?!). In a democracy, the majority rule. Congratulations, Bush, you just replaced a brutal, but stable dictator with a government of unstable potential religious fanatics that hate your guts.

    I hope that Bush gets re-elected, so that he will have to deal with the mess that he created.
  10. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    In point of fact, the country's leadership was sheltering those responsible - the Taliban didn't actually do it themselves. They then refused to give up Al-Queda which led to the invasion.
  11. train The Wildcard!!!...

    Me too!!!... Then more stuff can be blown to bits...:D
  12. train The Wildcard!!!...

    There will always be some form of Terrorism, but considering the post 9/11 crackdown that the global community has made against terrorists and terrorist organizations, I think all threats will be minimized, and no group will move into the vacuum created by Saddam's removal.

    It will be a gap unfilled, because it will be a gap under the best surveillance possible. If groups spring up elsewhere, which will happen, it is up to those countries to suppress the organization. If not - we'll have to do the job... and I think we're ready to do so...
  13. Ferret CPA Founder, Slacker

    I think there's a lot more at stake in Iraq than met the eye. It's had a very disruptive effect in Europe. France and Germany are going to have to find a new place to unload their surplus arms to get their oil. Women are going to feel like they're going to get raped every day (by men that will get away with it), and we'll have another place to set up home base in the Middle East that won't require paying huge ammounts of rent to the Saudis.

    Justified? Who cares? The world needs to be shaken up every few years to keep things from getting stale...


    "...even Thomas Jefferson thought a revolution every few years was a good idea..."
  14. train The Wildcard!!!...

    Jefferson's the man - you know he had indoor plumbing right?...
  15. Zhaneel Resident Gryphon Queen

    We need to care if it's justified, or we're the same as those we fight. The world needs justice. Statements like the above scare the crap out of me.
  16. Nightstalkers Creature — Nightstalker

    oil? why should operation iraqi liberation become such a scandal when needless killing of civi's is rampant over there?

    it is a shame that we are now barred from caring.
  17. Matthias New Member

    After reading the first page and a half I have been left with the impression that most if not all of you are very narrow minded. I look at it this way: Saddam probably did need to be overthrown, but not by the United States by the people he oppressed. But at the same time people have to understand Iraq is considered to be a threat to America so President bush probably didnt have many options of how to deal with him (not that I agree with war, but for someone as unintelligent as Pres. Bush it probably was the most logical choice). The Iraqi soldiers dressing as civilions, useing hospitals and schools as bases, and useing human shields isnt the ideal form of warfare but it is what they have to do, after all many of them do not view the United States as liberaters and most of the Iraqis who fight probably fear that we are trying to take over, after all they have been brainwashed by Saddam. But maby they are right, after all what do we know? I am not saying going to war is right, I am very much against it but both sides have their reasons for doing what they fell that they have to do.
    -The Great one
    P.S I probably made a half dozen spelling errors, I know that I cannot spell, there is no nead to tell me about it.
    Edit:Spelling Errors, Heh
  18. arhar Member

    Ya know, I'm surprised you AREN'T there, back in 2001 you gave the impression that if America ever attacks Iraq, you're gonna do something....

    Lol, so what you're saying is, "Our culture is older, and better, we have honor, that's why.. uh... yeah."

    I always love how you speak for the entire world, because obviously every non-American shares your point of view.

    Uh, that's bullcrap. The only reason war took so long is that America put a gigantic effort not to hurt innocent people. Of course, some loss of life could not be prevented, but if we DID use all our toys, the war would be over in a DAY.

    Yes, we're the first empire ever to give a chance to the opposing side to prevent the invasion by going to exile. Of course, you may say that there was never a chance for him to go to exile, but hey... at least we tried.

    Hmm, let me get this straight... He's a shallow tool because he digests much information, and he digests too much information because he lacks something inside? :confused:

    No, there are some universal truths in this world, and "Hitler is evil" is one of them.
    So he wasn't a nazi, he was a philospher?

    And somewhere, some time, Duke will be remembered as a smart man who made sense with his posts. But not in our galaxy.

    Uh... what? Philosphers' opinions matters much more, because simply they are better people. Just what are you smoking?

    Sorry to burst your bauble, but just because you disagree with their philosphies, doesn't mean you can call them 'dumb'. I'm pretty sure both of them were way smarter than you are.

    For someone who has found inner peace you sound way too bitter.

    Your willingness to desperately cling to smallest details that support your point is pathetic. Who cares about education system when children are starving?

    And that's pretty much your entire argument.
  19. Astranbrulth New Member

    Arhar --- Actually, a great deal of non - Americans share Duke's view. "Honesty" is something that is last on the list of attributes that non - Americans associate Americans with. Niavety, arrogance, greed and duplicity are linked with the image of America outside of your borders. I think that most US citizens have a very warped image of how other people perceive America.

    The States seriously needs to work on its image abroad. People don't see the US as a 'liberator', but as a 'user', a country that will use you for acheiving its aims until those aims have been met, then it will drop you like a bag of rotten eggs.

    Ferret --- Who cares if a war is just or not? Well, that is exactly the sort of idea that fuels anti - Americanism all over the globe. There is a simplistic outlook by the US, an outlook that it tries to impose on everyone else : USA = Good , Not USA = Evil. That's odd, when the Communists were promoting revolutions (regime change!) nobody was quoting Jefferson saying revolution was a good thing. So you're saying stuff like 9-11 is good, because it shakes things up?! Either that remark was tongue in cheek, or you need to engage your brain before speaking (writing?!).

    In actual fact, it is America which is a much larger arms supplier than little 'ol France & Germany. It would be very amusing if France, Germany and the rest of NATO (excl. of course Canada / Britain, which are almost de facto Americans anyway) told the USA that its weapons were no longer required. That would shake things up!!

    Train --- What global crackdown are you talking about?! There are still hundreds of active terrorist groups in the world, and Bin Laden is still out there. General opinion suggests that he is in Pakistan, but that government has done zip to catch him. What are you going to do - invade Pakistan? Oh, wait, I forget, Pakistan has nukes too...

    I really think that the US should have finished what it started before embarking on new adventures. Namely, caught Bin Laden and dismantled Al Qaeda from the top down. I suggest to you that with the current wave of anti - Americanism sweeping the Middle East / Asia, it will be much harder to apprehend him now than before the Iraqi war.
  20. DÛke Memento Mori


    You do realize, Arhar, that all I have to do to counter your intelligent reply is...say:

    "Why, thank you Astranbrulth!"

    And that I like "small" details...that is supposed to be something to dismay me? Of course I love small details! Every detail counts - unlike you, for example, I do not simply pretend to look at the "whole picture," which in this case, is "liberation," but I decipher the little, least important details of all, to figure out each little enigma that makes up the "whole" that most people digest.

    "It is like those who eat hotdogs - they really do not know what goes into the 'whole': they simply like the overall taste..."

    As for me being here and not in Iraq - fortunately or unfortunately, I have too many obligations here, amongst them is school. Additionally, my dad is already there, fighting with the U.S. soldiers, if I had went, my first priority would be to murder my dad - sadly, I have more humanity that disables me from doing such a good deed.

    As for the philosophers I disagree with - I happen to disagree with them intelligibly, not little-school boyishly, much like you. Plus, I doubt that you know who Kant or Mill are, or at least, I doubt that you know them as much I do. Please, unless you know what you are talking about, restrain your"self" from uttering noise.

    And who cares about education? I do. Obviously you don't. And then you speak to me of philosophy!

    "I'm sure you were kidding! Well, ok, I'm not so sure..."

    As for the whole issue concerning Iraq and the U.S., and the world, for that matter...

    ...the majority of people are subhumans and superfluous - and many of them think they are the "good" the "moral," many of them are dishonest too. Many of them belong to a zoo. We probably can all agree on this, but we cannot agree on just who those people are. That is my life's mission - to point out who are subhumans and who are humans. Perhaps I will define myself as a "subhuman" as well, but that will not stop me from pointing out who the "majority" are. Having said that - does it really matter speaking of these things, of such issues as politics? It seems to me that as long as subhumans constitute the majority of the species, we shall remain unable to speak fluently, honestly, intelligibly. Each man has this "opinion" that he picked up from some garbage lot, and each man calls it "self" and "thought." Each man fears being mistaken for the "common man," each is his own "rebel." It is even hard to identify whom are truly noble and who merely assume a good appearance. As long as subhumanity rules earth, all that is spirited and sophisticated will be repressed by the opinion-lovers, the god-cravers, the culture-sustainers, the "good" citizens, the "liberators."

    At the end, we look back, and do not begin to understand why we bother ourselves with such topics - subhumanity clearly wins the verbal argument, if only because it comes in sheer numbers, like avenging herds. But the one question I am left to ask myself: of course they win the verbal war, but do they win the intellectual war, do they win the "truth" of the matter, the honesty of it? - I slowly am beginning to lose hope that even the intellectual war, between the humans and the subhumans, or the majority, is being lost. But to have the slightest flicker of hope - that is what sustains me, that perhaps, one day - humanity will prevail and triumph.

    Arhar, let me put it this way: I will agree with you. I am nodding at the moment to every word you have uttered, and I am recalling our past arguments, and I nod at those too. You are overtaken by opinion, by culture-love, by whatever tradition you follow. It might seem easy to you to counter this, and accuse me of culture-love as well, but I tell you immediately - I have denounced the Arabian culture, the Muslims, to the utmost bottom of all bad-habits and bad tastes. But there is a truth that must be said, that for the Arabian culture is older than the American, and simply for that we ought to pay a little more respect and consideration for a people and a tradition that has been for long standing - in here, I am not speaking of the war itself, I am simply speaking casually. Almost any culture is more respectable than the American culture, the Israelites, the Egyptians, even the very primitive Africans. It is not about agreeing or disagreeing with their traditions - it is about respecting their long-standing values. I simply condemn all culture and tradition, but the truth is, America is simply young and immature, no matter how old it becomes.

    Don't waste your time playing the argument-game - we all know where it leads, just like it had lead us before. Please don't take this as "agree to disagree." Rather, no, we still disagree very much, and we shalln't even agree to disagree - we simply must admit to ourselves that you must ignore me, for I am nonsense to you, that I am immature, unintelligent, unphilosophical, idiotic - really, you must ignore me for your sake. And at that, I must dismiss you, because in my eyes, you are a subhuman.

    Astranbrulth, let me give you a warning before you attempt to engage in an actual discussion: you are wasting precious time. I commend you for your effort, but what is a futile effort? I understand the inner-rage and curiosity that must have overtaken you, that you need to speak, to write, to express these things as loud and as clear as you could if only to calm your spirit...and how wonderful it is to see someone speaking rather than cowering to silence, but, with all respect and honesty, your spirit is only falsely and deceptively calmed here or with the world, for at the end, you look back and you behold the very same rottenness that was once alive, still alive and perhaps more rotten than first started. That you calm your spirit is a great thing, but that it is also a down pouring rain that invites the slimiest snails and ugliest of parasites to grow - that is what words create, not any words, but intelligent words. I warn you at the moment: you are simply encouraging ugliness to be the victor.

    "Words are useless. Action is actual. At the end: if there is a God, he is a Stalin, or better, a Hitler...and not a forgiving, weak, inadequate, filthy Christ. At the end Evil becomes the much needed Good and in truth, all that is Good is secretly, inadequately, underhandedly Evil."

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