Extended Discussion on Personal Views

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DÛke

Guest
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And you guys forgot that some people do not see Hitler has "morally offensive" as most people do. I am not saying they are right, I am simply asserting that, "it is all relative" to see Hitler from a slightly different perspective. Morally "criminal"? Yes. It all belongs to how you define "criminal." I am currently reading about Hitler and his life...

"...Heroism, Genius, Creativity! Rather than...Immoralisim..."

Nazi? I say...Plato. I say philosophy. It is natural that the weaker races, weaker in mentality that is, dislike that which is for the intellectual race rather than the retarded all too commonness.

And here we are: a retarded world.

Somewhere, some time, Hitler will be a destiny, a legacy, and a rolemodel...
 
M

Mazzak

Guest
riiight. Hitler was a valid philosopher just like your mom is the queen of England.
 

Ferret

Moderator
Staff member
Currently, Hitler is a role model: for neo-nazis that believe in killing anyone not like themselves - also, I hear the Klan likes him.

The point is that we can analyze our current situation from many points of view. We might be preventing the next holocaust. We might be liberating an opressed people. We might be trying to appropriate more oil. We 'could be' doing lots of things.

Does anyone REALLY know if we are? No. We're just all trying to justify our positions in this because none of us are afraid to admit that our opinion migh be wrong. That's the main problem w/ philiosophy (and Philospophy proffessors as I learned in college) is that usualy the person that creates the theory is so entrenched in their own opinions that they forget that other opininons might exist.

-Ferret

"Open mind? Sure. Closed mouth? Never!"
 
D

DÛke

Guest
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That's easy for you to say, Ferret. Philosophers are beyond your "opinions." They are in a more truthful state than others. You have to have the right to their truths, you don't simply just spit your own opinion at them - they know more than most people. Most philosophers, from Plato to Nietzsche, for example, although they seem to disagree with each other...they are exactly the same - all philosophers hold, basically, the SAME "opinion." The entire world, on the other hand, hold its own opinion, or how should I put this? They hold MERE "opinions."
 
A

Apollo

Guest
Imagine if a coalition of countries decided to disarm Hitler before he got started on his little reign of terror. We could have prevented World War II entrirely! It's all relative when you look at it...
Yeah, but there was no way of knowing for certain how things would go. After you disarm Germany, maybe you go on and disarm some country that ended up being harmless. Sure it would have worked for Germany, but that's just one situation. And finally, there's little chance Iraq will end up like Germany because they don't have the power the Germans did.
 
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Thallid Ice Cream Man

Guest
Philosophers suck. If they keep talking different things, despite having the same opinion, it's because they need money to keep thinking. I used to want to be a philosopher but now I don't because it's not helpful or useful to anyone I want to help.
 
D

DÛke

Guest
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TICM, they seem "different" things because they exist in different times If you read Plato, and then read Nietzsche, for example, they would appear to disagree. Especially Nietzsche, who ridicules Plato left and right. But if you read Nietzsche's work more closely, you will see that it is a reflection of Plato, a more violent reaction to the "technological world" which did not exist to the Greeks, a reaction to "religion" as well, which Plato had not yet seen. Nietzsche dislikes Plato's metaphysics and concept of "perfect forms," but Nietzsche himself created a concept of "perfect" form: the over-man. Plato disliked democracy. Nietzsche disliked anything that gives the weak the right to be free and a "vote." Plato created the "philosopher king," Nietzsche suggested the will to power, which is an essence of the philosopher king! I would go on more details, but I don't think you'll understand me.

Some philosopher fools, as Kant and Mill, they belong to the herds, since their philosophy has no insight at all, but merely reaffirms every wrong that society does. Imagine train with a profound and sophisticated choice of words...we wouldn't call him a thinker, now would we?

If I am to be honest, I look at Plato, I look at Nietzsche, and I look at myself...and my idea of will to evil and circular morality, which puts the final end to the "duality" between good and evil because I prove it to be a circle: too much good=evil, too much evil=good, all good becomes evil and evil, then, becomes good (this is not the proof, but the conclusion.) All these ideas, when observed by innocent passerbys and those who would “interpret” me, would seem to be "new," but in myself I feel a Plato-nic urge and a Nietzsche-spirit, but since we are in today, the philosophy, which is essentially the same philosophy, seems different - it is not different, it only evolved to have a saying about this era. Its essence and its goal are exactly like that of Plato and Nietzsche.

"...Descarte: a victim of the world. Kierkegaard: a victim the world as well. Pascal: A victim of religion. Kant: dumb. Mill: dumber. Sartre: a victim of his own nothingness and self-deception..."

It should be made a rule: if you are not painfully honest, you must not be allowed to think.
 

Ferret

Moderator
Staff member
When I was in college I met up w/ a lot of friends from high school that had aspired to be Computer Science, Quantum Physics, and Advanced Math majors. All of them couldn't cut it so they used Philosopy as their back-up major.

They spend all of their time reading other people's opinions and using it to scream "I'm right! You're wrong!" at everyone. I took some philosophy in college (I needed classes to sleep through) and my proffessor was the same way as all the students I saw - except, of course, she got paid to act that way.

A philosopher is nothing more than someone w/ some strong opinions that was able to convince a bunch of other people that they should follow said opinion and flush theirs down the toilet.

-Ferret

"Aside from being a philosopy proffessor, what other kinds of jobs can you get?"
 
D

DÛke

Guest
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My major is in Business, and everything that does with business. I enjoy philosophy as a pastime. Philosophy is not merely an opinion - as I said, philosophers mostly agree with each other, no matter how different and contradicting they appear, and that's their world. All other people have another world. Which is more right? I'll leave that for your opinion. But if we look at what has shaped the world, you will see that it is philosophers, whether religious, political, metaphysical, social...whatever. Surely, then, their world is better! Because the swarms usually adapt to what a philosopher envisions, and behold! - the world is a clone of all philosophers thus far. The Republic, by Plato, which the world has inverted and made politics out of; the ethics of Kant and Mill; the views of Marx that shook the world; the rise of Hitler as a reaction to Nietzsche; Christianity itself, which is a watered down Greek philosophy, especially the philosophy of Socrates; Islam, which admits its praise to the Greeks, and explains the immortality of the soul exactly as Plato had; Pascal, who influenced modern day "faith"...

...the world is not ruled by a God, but by Philosophers. They shape the minds of the good and many...only because the good and many have no minds of their own. And of course, the good and many complain all the more plenty when their “opinions” are refuted, not because of the refutation, because they know they are wrong – they simply cannot admit it, not even to themselves. Really, what a clear picture I have described of some forums!

...perhaps, to me, the single proof that philosophy is more than an opinion is how all teachers in school respect me and even show a biased for me and my tastes. I write a paper...and behold, anyone who knows of the paper demands to read it, other teachers, and members of the faculty. – best of all, they disagree with all my views. Suspicious, of course, is how they swallow my writing so sweetly…
 

Ferret

Moderator
Staff member
...perhaps, to me, the single proof that philosophy is more than an opinion is how all teachers in school respect me and even show a biased for me and my tastes. I write a paper...and behold, anyone who knows of the paper demands to read it, other teachers, and members of the faculty. – best of all, they disagree with all my views. Suspicious, of course, is how they swallow my writing so sweetly…
I've seen this before and it helps me understand you: You're so used to hearing that you're right from other people that you think that it's impossible for you to be wrong? Now, it makes sense. You're not egotistical; you're just arogant. Now, it makes sense...you even have a small army of sheep that listen to you. You must be highly charismatic as well. Good for you.

-Ferret

"Could Rush Limbaugh be called a modern-day philosopher?"
 
T

train

Guest
I guess he could be... I just called him a butterball...

And Ferret has a point...

There are sheep everywhere, they'll follow anything that keeps their interest... problem is that the shepherd isnot always walking with his eyes open as he leads them...:rolleyes:
 
D

DÛke

Guest
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The problem is: I do not allow anyone to follow me. I attack those who agree with me as well, or have you not experienced this?

I don't think I'm always right. I think I more righteous than you, Ferret, in all aspects of life. I have heard men and women speak so wonderfully that they touch my inner most heart. I can admit I am wrong when someone shows me that he is right. I have not called any opinion "wrong." I have not called any "right" either. I argue. You feel a little ashamed and a little insecurity hurting you? You feel like you are being looked down at? For that, I would seek help, but I will not advise you. After all, how strange would it be if I were to suggest that you are sick! :)
 

Ferret

Moderator
Staff member
Far be it for me to ever find myself looking up at you :)
I've been arguing for a lot longer than you have. But, I like to argue a point if I have a different viewpoint - not arguing for argument's sake.

We're very alike - the difference is that I know when to say "You have a valid point there".

-Ferret

"Righteous? No. Self-Righteous? Yes!"
 
D

DÛke

Guest
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Just the other day I praised TICM on these very boards. I do give compliments, but I am not your average whore that says "You have a valid point" if only because the point agrees with my own. The difference between you and me is this: you say "valid" when it agrees with your so-called "opinion." I say "valid" when it teaches me or shows me a light I have not yet seen. You and your kind strive to attain all that is agreeable. Why, just the other day I heard you being "patriotic"!

Of course you love democracy and "liberty." Without them, you would be indeed enslaved by all that is better than you. But you love a place where "we are all equal," don't you, because you love to feel equal to those who you feel down below and beneath. Much more, you seem to be envious of those who use their liberties. I am not envious, I merely regret that the stupid has the right to speak. And really, is this not a point where we agree: that there are many stupid. The problem seems to come in touch with whom belongs to this category. I will leave that to your...opinion.

"...and please, do not suggest that we are very alike."

I do not consider your "opinion" as valid because you are not valid to me. Such sheer indifference, irrelevance, such inexistence...really, I have learnt how to ignore worms and parasites. See to it that you learn that as well, lest you confront someone better than you and call him your “equal.” :) There is no equal, you are either under or over.

"...not many have the right to look at all, much less, to look at me..."

Really, we ought to dismiss at once any notion that suggests being alive justifies one's existence. Really, not many have the right to life. Few here and there, but the majority...how much would we care, really!
 

Ferret

Moderator
Staff member
I don't consider myself equal to ANYONE. I condider myself far superior - at least, to you :)

I know this country has no real freedoms - but the false freedoms we have are a lot more than most other countries have.

-Ferrret

"All people are created equal - just some are more equal than others"
 
D

DÛke

Guest
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Ferret:

"All people are created equal - just some are more equal than others"
Sartre, a world celebrated philosopher, would call that "self-deception." :D How...accurate!
 

Ferret

Moderator
Staff member
Self-deception can only be defined when some says that you're wrong and you believe them. I choose to only believe me. My opinions are not necesarily wrong - just unpopular :)

-Ferret

"I don't take myself seriously, so why should I take you seriously?"
 
D

DÛke

Guest
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Of course you don't take yourself seriously. Your "self" is a product. Would you really care about a stranger much? Most unlikely. That you don't take your "self" seriously is not only unsurprising, but expected. I really don't want many, if any, to take me seriously at all. Because I am dangerous. My thoughts are blood-tainted. And above all, I am quite serious when I say "I" and "me." Ferret, I have nothing against you and I never will. I let people live their lives as they wish. But I will speak as I wish as well. See to it that you do not feel offended and argue about my way of arguing, rather, argue about the argument itself...because I have some nuclear ideas, evil ideas too, depraved and godless ideas, offensive and disgusting...

Peace
 

Ferret

Moderator
Staff member
I would never feel offended by you. Anyone that lives in a world as sheltered as yours should be pittied - not, that I would ever waste any of my time doing that :)

Seriously though, I find you to be one of the most intriguing people I've had discussions w/ so far - and let's just say the list that precedes you is long and distinguished. You rarely take a defensive posture - even when you're obviously losing an argument. You keep me entertained and for that, I consider you, (dare I say it?) a friend.

Take care,

-Ferret

"...and we'll just let that fester for a few minutes..."
 
D

DÛke

Guest
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The last thing I need is pity. I am pitied by my own family and relatives. My mom thinks me "mad," my father thinks me "dead." The rest of whom I know think that I am, as train once put it, "out of place." The last time I spilled my tears over agreeableness with the world was over a year ago. But today, I find that my "out-of-place"-ness seems to have brought me closer to something called "self" - a concept which is used a lot but rarely do people posses. There are all too many rebels and outcasts...I think of the pathetic Almindhra of this board, a little girl both lost and confused, with so many conflicting desires that she is all but garbage if one sees her beneath the skin. Really, too many rebels and outcasts today, but they are as sickening and "selfless" as many. They are angry personas. They hold much contempt and hatred. I think of FoundationOfRancor and Gizmo - fools by every sense of the word. Istanbul is the only spirit I have seen thus far that might have experience what I do. Really, pity me if I desire to "belong" but are unable; but you see, it is I who left the world...

"Friend" you want to call me, little knowledge you have of how suicidal and daring, how down right heroic that is to be, not because I am "special," you see, but rather because I sicken every soul. The last thing most people desire today is to be sickened. They reflect their self-hatred and dark-visions on me, rather, see me in a light-hearted manner and you will be surprised how cheerful and joyful I am...
 
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