confirmed Torment cards

Discussion in 'General CPA Stuff' started by Lotus Mox, Dec 10, 2001.

  1. EricBess Active Member

    The problem with a single color having that many more cards than any other color is draft. Sealed and constructed would adapt and not be a problem. Drafting gets really weird and I'm not sure it would even work.
  2. PTQ New Member

    One wouldn't be drafting with only Torment packs, though.

    You'd have Odessey packs in there too.
  3. Gizmo Composite: 1860

    The rumours that there would be more black cards than any other color have been around for months, personally I believe them - no matter how much ill-thought bile Istanbul wants to spew on the subject of 'what has never happened before and never will ever happen' just because he says so.

    It makes it an interesting twist on the expansions if from now on they start to rotate around emphasising different colors.

    And havent we buried that 'red gets kicked' bit, seeing as its the most heavily played color in Type-II at the moment, and probably the best mono-colored deck as well? Do me a favour.

    Istanbul - never been known to let the facts get in the way of a good rant.

    And I dont think Radiate is very good. It`s gonna be a WHOLE lot of fun in multiplayer and casual games, but its not really a competitive card at 5cc.
  4. Hetemti The Wide-Awake Nightmare

    If Red is doing good, I retract my statement otherwise; I don't play TII aside from Prereleases, so I'm rarely up to date on it.

    As for Radiate, I agree it's meant to be a fun card. And I'm glad to see it. Red's usually weak in multi because it's strongest themes are direct rather than global...this patches it up.


    Bolt targeting you. | Bolt
    -Fork: Bolt: you | Bolt; Fork: Bolt
    --Radiate: Fork | Bolt; Fork: Bolt; Radiate:Fork
    ---Radiate2: Radiate | Bolt; Fork:Bolt; Radiate:Fork; Radiate2:Radiate
    Res Radiate2; Stack copies | Bolt, Fork:Bolt; Radiate:Fork; Radiate2:Bolt; Radiate3:Fork; Radiate4:Radiate
    Res Radiate4; Stack copies | Bolt; Fork:Bolt; Radiate:Fork; Radiate2:Bolt; Radiate3:Fork; Radiate5:Bolt; Radiate6:Fork; Radiate7:Fork; Radiate8:Bolt; Radiate9:Fork
    Res Radiate9; Stack copies | Bolt; Fork:Bolt; Radiate:Fork; Radiate2:Bolt; Radiate3:Fork; Radiate5:Bolt; Radiate6:Fork; Radiate7:Fork; Radiate8:Bolt; Bolt(2); Fork(2):Radiate8; Radiate:Radiate(8); Radiate10:Radiate8; Radiate11:Radiate8; Radiate12:Radiate8; Radiate13:Radiate8; Radiate14:Radiate8; Radiate15:Radiate7; Radiate:Bolt(2); Radiate:Fork(2)

    As you can see, this is a Bad Thing™. Unless I'm wrong about the stacking of these effects...but even if I am wrong, Radiating Forks that Fork Radiates frightenes me. They might eratta it so you can't Radiate a Radiate, or force it to be a Spell Card rather than just Spell...the Fork will still be copied, but the doppelforks won't.
  5. Zadok001 CPA Founder, Greater Good

    You can't Radiate Fork, as it doesn't target a permanent or player. So we ARE saved on that front...
  6. BigBlue Magic Jones

    you cant radiate a fork, but you can fork a radiate. . .

    can I saw ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

    Radiate only targets the spell, so . . .

    Player A: Bolt a Creature.
    Player B: Giant Growth to protect it.
    Player A: Radiate the GG
    Player A: Fork the Radiate targeting Bolt.

    Now if you have guys with toughness bigger than 3 or pro Red, you get GG for them after the others all die. Right?

    Shelter + radiate = protection for all Your creatures, do you choose color on resolution, so it would be the same or could you pick different colors?

    Second Thoughts + Radiate = All attacking Cretures (exile would be cheaper, without the cantrip)

    Morbid Hunger + Radiate = Lot's of life.

    ahh WotC always making Judges Lives interesting.

    What about:

    Player A: Cast Lightning Bolt at opponents creature
    Player B: Cast Shelter to save it.
    Player A: Cast Radiate Targeting Bolt
    Player A: Cast Fork Targeting Radiate targeting Shelter.

    so, All Player A's creatures get shelter, then bolt effects everything, I take it that it is a replacement effect, the "radiate" bolt hits before their shelter?

    Diabolic Edict + Radiate = "Very Expensive" Innocent Blood right?
  7. Lotus Mox New Member

    Mesmeric Fiend 1B Common
    Creature — Nightmare Horror
    When Mesmeric Fiend comes into play, target opponent reveals his or her hand and you choose a nonland card from it. Remove that card from the game. When Mesmeric Fiend leaves play, return the removed card to its owner’s hand.

    Note that all the Nightmare cards are worded so that you can respond to the CIP trigger with the Nightmare leaving play, so the leaves play trigger won't bring anything back, effectively permanently removing the card.

    I don't know if this is intentional or just an oversight.
  8. Istanbul Sucker MCs call me sire.

    Hey, Gizmo? I've got a great idea. Why don't you keep your vitriol-filled opinions to yourself? You're a wretched, miserable piece of crap who never passes up the opinion to attack me or what I say. If you want a public, verbal slugging match, so be it. I would contend that you don't know what you're talking about, having gotten out of playing Magic (or so you say) some time ago, even before Odyssey was released. So why don't you keep your 'expert' opinions to yourself before you embarass yourself even more than usual?

    Other admins - Sorry, but Gizmo has publically attacked me once too often. My patience with him is at an end.
  9. Hetemti The Wide-Awake Nightmare

    I clicked this thread for more card discussion and I get a rant?

    Children, please keep personal conflict to IM or Battle Forum. If you don't like what Giz said about you, message a mod and ask the slanderous segments be extricated.

    But don't make yourself look worse than your tormentor by stooping to his level. If it weren't for the "wretched miserable" sentence, you'd come off a lot better.

    -=-Meanwhile in the real world-=-

    About Mesmeric Fiend, I wonder if this and Equilibrium will see use. Even if not, it might work as a psudeoduress...Don't know if that'd be viable or not, though.
  10. Lotus Mox New Member

    Chainer, Demetia Master -- Rare
    Creature -- Minion Legend
    All Nightmares get +1/+1
    BBB, pay 3 life: Put target creature card from a graveyard into play under your control. That creature is black and is a nightmare in addition to its creature types. When Chainer, Demetia Master leaves play, remove all Nightmares from the game.

    Note that it is rumored to allow reanimation from any graveyard.

    I'm not sure if I really like the Nightmare Mechanic, cause eventually they'll leave play (honestly, which T2 deck can't handle creatures?) and you loose their CIP bonus. But on the other hand you get a nice advantage while they're in play, which you can use to finish your opponent.
  11. Chaos Turtle Demiurgic CPA Member, Admin Assistant

    I'm going to file it under "Split Cards and Other Strangeness." ;)
  12. Turtlewax Joe CPA Hater of Train

    This is what I have found:

    Obsessive Search - Common
    Draw a card.
    Madness: U (You may may play this card for its madness cost at the time you discard it from your hand.)

    Plagiarize - Rare
    Until end of turn, if target player would draw a card, instead that player skips that draw and you draw a card.

    Basking Rootwalla
    Creature - Lizard ; 1/1
    1G: Basking Rootwalla gets +2/+2 until end of turn. You may only play this ability once each turn.
    Madness: 0

    Insist - Rare
    The next creature spell you play this turn can't be countered by spells or abilities.
    Draw a card.

    Radiate - Rare
    Choose target instant or sorcery spell that targets only a single permanent or player. For each other permanent or player that spell could target, put a copy of the spell onto the stack. Each copy targets a different one of those permanents and players.

    Cabal Ritual - Common
    Add BBB to your mana pool.
    Threshold: Instead add BBBBB to your mana pool.

    Faceless Butcher
    Creature - Nightmare Horror; 2/3
    When Faceless Butcher comes into play, remove target creature to other than Faceless Butcher from the game. When Faceless Butcher leaves play, return the card you removed from the game under its owner's control.
    Illus. Daren Bader.

    Mesmeric Fiend 1B Common
    Creature — Nightmare Horror
    When Mesmeric Fiend comes into play, target opponent reveals his or her hand and you choose a nonland card from it. Remove that card from the game. When Mesmeric Fiend leaves play, return the removed card to its owner’s hand.

    Mind Sludge
    Target player discards a card for each swamp you control.

    Mortal Combat - Rare
    At the beginning of your upkeep, if twenty or more creature cards are in your graveyard, you win the game.

    Nantuko Shade
    Creature - Insect Shade; 2/1
    B: Nantuko Shade gains +1/+1 until end of turn.

    Sengir Vampire
    Creature - Vampire
    Whenever a creature dealt damage by Sengir Vampire this turn is put into a graveyard, put a +1/+1 counter on Sengir Vampire.

  13. Istanbul Sucker MCs call me sire.

    This POS is rare? :mad: I know we said the power cards shouldn't be rare, but does that mean they have to give us such utter drek instead?
  14. Lotus Mox New Member

    this card is a POS? it's a 1 mana cantrip with a useful effect attached to it, it could concievably see maindeck play (if many counter-decks are played, and your deck could use this effect, i.e. you are running creatures ;) ).
    It's especially useful with creatures having CIP effects cause these creatures are already doing something when they enter play, and thus aren't so weak vs. bounce.
  15. Lotus Mox New Member

    Land (probably uncommon)
    T : Add 1 to your mana pool.
    T : Add B or G to your mana pool. Play this ability only if you control a swamp.

    There's also one for U, R, and W.

    -nice lands, somewhat akin to reflecting pool, especially the opposing color ones will be playable (obviously mostly in black centered decks) because you don't have many other options is these color combinations (no tap or filter lands), maybe also playable in extended with all these duals (pox comes to my mind)

    Land (probably rare)
    2, T : Add B to your mana pool for each swamp you control.

    -you need 3 swamps in play to break even with this card, you usually don't need such a late game (turn 5 to produce 1 extra mana) mana boost, and it isn't even playable outside of mono-black decks (or decks with dual lands)

    Possessed Aven - 2UU
    Creature - Aven (and maybe Horror as well)
    Threshold - Possessed Aven gets +1/+1, is black, and has "T: Destroy target blue creature."

    There's also one for R, W, and G. R is a dwarf or barbarian and has either first strike or haste. W is a nomad and attacking doesn't cause it to tap. G is a centaur and has trample. Not sure of the casting costs or P/T of the R, W, and R ones.

    - w00t! a 3/3 flyer for 4 mana is already nice (compare to stronghold zeppelin), but having a threshold ability in a color which gains threshold with relative ease is great.
    I would guess the green one is quite playable, hopefully not to the extent that the green vs. green matchup is always won by the deck which gets threshold more reliably (usually the G/U ones).

    (name?) - 2W
    Creature - ?
    T : Each player loses life equal to the number of swamps he or she controls.

    -a fair hoser vs. black at least, esp. vs. those decks wanting to abuse the "I have lots of Swamps in play" mechanic


    Laquatus’s Champion 4BB Rare
    Creature — Nightmare Horror
    When Laquatus’s Champion comes into play, target player loses 6 life. When Laquatus’s Champion leaves play, that player gains 6 life. B: Regenerate Laquatus’s Champion. 6/3

    Hypnox 8BBB Rare
    Creature — Nightmare Horror
    Flying. When Hypnox comes into play, if you played it from your hand, remove all cards in target opponent’s hand from the game. When Hypnox leaves play, return the removed cards to their owner’s hand. 8/8

    -Tailor made for reanimator-decks (/me notices the 'if you played it from your hand' part (a bit late (indeed))), it's huge and has a rather good built-in protection.

    Petradon 6RR Rare
    Creature — Nightmare Beast
    When Petradon comes into play, remove two target lands from the game. When Petradon leaves play, return the removed cards to play under their owners’ control. R: Petradon gets +1/+0 until end of turn. 5/6

    -I hope there will be a smaller version which is more playable

    Fiery Temper -- Common
    Fiery Temper deals 3 damage to target creature or player.
    Madness: R

    -I like it :)

    Mutilate -- Rare
    All creatures get -1/-1 until end of turn for each swamp you control.

    -basically a Wrath of God for mono-black decks, but do they need it, seeing how they will be most likely creature based
  16. Gizmo Composite: 1860

    I think its quite an assumption saying they will be creature based.

    A black Wrath kinda negates the whole W part of the UBW Finkel decks. And there are already some semi-competitive mono-black control/corrupt decks.

    Radiate + Spiritual Asylum.
    NOW you`re talking. :D

    Madness seems basically to be a Guerrilla`s Tactics sort of thing, and its been included to HOSE the black spells, to have synergy with them.
  17. FoundationOfRancor The Gunslinger

    Am I correct in assuming that I can discard Fiery Temper to tireless tribe, then pay R to play it?
  18. Lotus Mox New Member

    This is correct, you can pay R if you discard Fiery Temper to the Tribe in order to play it, any form of discard will allow madness to be used.
  19. Cateran Emperor Passed On

    Um, yep, I guess I wasn't needed to show up here. All that rumor mongering I've been doing for nothing...

    (by the way, I'm Cateran at MTGNews in case it's not obvious by now)
  20. Istanbul Sucker MCs call me sire.


    Wow, look at the rumor mill slow to a crawl!

    Insist is nothing more than 'Cycling: G' against non-counter decks.
    Mutilate should be pretty amazing. Realize that you've got a 4-mana Wrath and a five-mana Super-Lobotomy (Haunting Echoes) in the same color. *Yikes*.
    If Fiery Temper were a sorcery, it would be god-awful. Now, it's just bad. Sure, it's a Bolt if you discard it...but if not, it's worse than most burn cards out there.
    I don't see Petradon or Hypnox seeing play outside of some reanimator thing. *Way* too pricey.
    Laquatus' Champion is kind of neat, though, especially if you cast Mutilate the turn before. Swat for 6 when it comes in, and keep swatting for 6...
    The 2/2 black hoser is okay, but remember how many non-basic lands are used these days. It's possible to have black in a deck without using a single Swamp. :p
    I like Possessed Aven. Quite a bit. A good casting cost for a 3/3 flyer (shades of Phantom Monster), with a similarly nifty Threshhold ability.
    Not big on the 'B for each swamp' land, but the other kind interests me.
    I'd play Opt over Obsessive Search.
    Plagiarize is pretty nasty, believe it or not. If nothing else, you cast it during your opponent's upkeep, and you get an extra card while they get nothing.
    Radiate would be playable if it were cheaper, but I can't think of anything I'd be willing to pay so much to Radiate.
    Faceless Butcher interests me. Trouble is, if he walks into a room and nobody else is around, he leaves.
    Mortal Combat amuses me. Buried Alive + Millstone?
    Sengir Vampire? It's not unthinkable...we thought we'd seen the last of Serra, remember?

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