confirmed Torment cards

Discussion in 'General CPA Stuff' started by Lotus Mox, Dec 10, 2001.

  1. Chaos Turtle Demiurgic CPA Member, Admin Assistant


    I remember that "discussion" from MTG-L. I don't even want to go there. I don't even want to look the ruling up, much less try to figure it out on my own; I'm so traumatized. I don't think I liked the result anyway. :(
  2. EricBess Active Member

    It's not that bad if you understand the replacment ability rules. Basically, you have a draw that needs to be replaced and two replacement abilities trying to replace it.

    You choose one to replace it. That says you must discard (or mill) first and then draw. The second one then looks to see if it can still replace that event. Well, it can replace the draw portion of that event, so you have to discard (or mill) first and then draw.

    End result with two in play is that if you are about to draw a second card, you must discard 2 (or mill) first and then draw one.

    Edit - I just read Spidey's post and I don't want to look up the exact text of Chains... (I might anyway)... if you mill, do you not draw?
  3. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Here's the exact text:

  4. Lotus Mox New Member

    I think I am understanding how the Chains work, could interact nicely with the madness mechanic :).

    Here are some new MTGnews rumors from a credible source:

    Torment contains:

    40 Black cards
    28 Red and Blue cards
    21 White and Green cards.
    5 Nonbasic lands.

    -this uneven distribution will have a strange effect on limited. There will be NO ARTIFACTS in torment.

    Obsessive Search - Common
    Draw a card.
    Madness: U (You may may play this card for its madness cost at the time you discard it from your hand.)

    -it can be 2 for 1 card advantage if you use madness.

    Cabal Ritual - Common
    Add BBB to your mana pool.
    Threshold: Add BBBBB to your mana pool instead.

    -bad without threshold and when you have threshold you might not need the mana boost.

    Plagiarize - Rare
    Until end of turn, if target player would draw a card, instead that player skips that draw and you draw card.

    -a bit weird, it's at least a cantrip Fatigue, and can get ridiculous in response to something like Brainstorm, but the high casting cost will probably prevent it from being widely played.

    Mortal Combat - Rare
    At the beginning of your upkeep, if twenty or more creature cards are in your graveyard, you win the game.
  5. PTQ New Member

    Don't forget Sengir Vampire !

    They have a picture of the new art over at, just scroll down and look on the left-hand sidebars.
  6. Lotus Mox New Member

    There's a Vampire in Torment, but I have my doubts that it is indeed the Sengir Vampire, cause Wizards usually doesn't reprint non-Portal cards in Expansions.
    But seeing how Torment is The Black Set(TM), it isn't impossible they have made an exception.

    YEAH MY 500th POST :D
  7. BigBlue Magic Jones

    I think this is so you could play Cabal Patiriarch in a multicolor deck easier. You are trading 1 Colorless for BB. I would be amazed if they released the ratios of cards you discussed earlier, unless they are looking for B to blow up. Taking away cards from W/G and giving B extras seems wrong somehow. You sure that didn't come of :)

    Also, with those dumb familiars, you get Rit back + insane threshold.
  8. CHA1N5 New Member


  9. Istanbul Sucker MCs call me sire.

    Sorry, Lotus...but I just don't see your credible source as that credible anymore. A secondary set of less than 100 cards, with almost half being one color?

    Maybe that's the number of cards he *saw*.
  10. Zadok001 CPA Founder, Greater Good

    Harkuvian is the source, he gave us almost all of Oddysey. And that should be read:

    40 Black cards
    28 Red cards
    28 Blue cards
    21 White cards
    21 Green cards
    5 non-basic lands

    Better, Isty? :)

    And here's the card that opens the BIG can o' wurms (yes, I meant to do that):

    Radiate - Rare
    Choose target instant or sorcery spell that targets only a single permanent or player. For each other permanent or player that spell could target, put a copy of the spell onto the stack. Each copy targets a different one of those permanets and players.

    Can you say... YIKES!
  11. Hetemti The Wide-Awake Nightmare

    Yikes, it's a sorta bad, lest ye build around it...

    Couterspell? Nah.
    Lightning Bolt? 3RRR and two cards for a half Inferno.
    Swords? 3RRW for an ├╝berwrath. Not bad...but still...

    What do we use this with? Cantrips, that's what. Repulse becomes 5URR: Bounce all critters, draw a card for each.

    Expensive, but nice...and may not act as if you could muster 6URRR and do that with Prophetic Bolt. That's morally wrong.
  12. Zadok001 CPA Founder, Greater Good

    Repulse? Repulse? Ice, my friend! Ice 'em all!
  13. Hetemti The Wide-Awake Nightmare

    That was too obvious... :p ...I need to find some dang players...I haven't touched my R/U deck in a month. :(
  14. Istanbul Sucker MCs call me sire.

    Fine, that's 143 cards, but I still don't believe that WotC would so blatantly favor one color over the others.
  15. Zadok001 CPA Founder, Greater Good

    I have a hard time accepting it too, but given how obviously weak black was in Oddysey (on needs merely look at the most drafted colors to see how BAD black is), I can understand strengthening it. It'll add an odd little twist to the format. Speculation that Judgement will be the "White" set, but beyond that, it's anyone's best guess.
  16. Istanbul Sucker MCs call me sire.

    Sorry. I've still gotta scream 'bullshirt!' at the top of my lungs. Wizards has never given one color such an obvious advantage, and I don't think it ever will. You want a color that's been screwed? Go take a look at red. THAT'S a color that WotC has been kicking in the nuts since Tempest block. Even if Judgement is then the 'white' block, that leaves blue, green, and red severely weakened. (Nothing will kill a color like the lack of cards available for that color.)

    I'm gonna file this one under "I'll believe it when I see it".
  17. rkoelsch Angel Boy

    Wizards has been trying to shake up the field. remember split cards. I put this as a possibility. It also means I would probably buy no Torment as Black is the only color I almost never play.
  18. Lotus Mox New Member

    I want to correct you in this point, in an constructed environment, you don't kill a color with the lack of quantity (unless there are next to no cards at all), you kill it with a lack of quality.

    e.g. if a set has 10 awesome white cards which build an insanely good deck together,and every other color gets 1000 bulloink cards, white will dominate.
  19. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    I gotta agree with Isty, I don't think there will be such an uneven distribution among the colors. And I agree with Lotus Mox that if a color is to be weakened, you just put bad cards in it so no one will play it :) So I think that it what's going to happen (if WOTC also sees that black or whatever color is "weak").
  20. Hetemti The Wide-Awake Nightmare

    I think they might pull it off.
    The Torment:Black::Judgment:White does make some sence...this might be a Big Cycle.

    Odessy: Internal cycles, plenty of mana fixers.
    Torment: Black
    Judgment: White
    Onslaught: Red
    Ons Exp I: Blue
    Ons Exp II: Green

    They still have yet to give us good Red since Tempest...just spash crap. (And Onslaught is a Red card...a crappy red card...but still...) It also shafts Green, since R&D Loves to shaft Green, and withholds goodies from Blue to keep the environment alive for a glorious few weeks.

    Frankly, I've kinda liked the idea of color-based boosters, with non-basic land and artifacts mixed in, so that you could buy the cards you need for your deck, and WizCo can still sell random garbage for pure profit.

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