Discussion in 'General CPA Stuff' started by SerraPlainswalker, Aug 5, 2000.

  1. nodnarb24 Supreme Overlord/The Rat King

    Tag guard

    NOw that i look at it, my standard white deck could kick it's ass.
  2. DÛke Memento Mori

    I know it can, I made it up as I went a long :)
  3. Istanbul Sucker MCs call me sire.

    I WOULD be pissed if they banned Counterspell (and other spells similar to it), because blue will DIE with no countermagic. I've learned this from extensive experience.
    Black, however, does *not* need Dark Ritual except for combo decks, so I don't think any black player has any reasonable cause to be upset. This has been my entire point.

    And I'm still waiting for this Extended Blue deck with no countermagic...
  4. DÛke Memento Mori

    Fine, I will desgin one, just for you, and I will proove to all Magic players, that Blue doesn't need countermagic to be a good, playable color. Give one day, tommorow, around the same time, I will give you the deck. You'll see. I will proove you wrong...
  5. Istanbul Sucker MCs call me sire.

    Keep in mind, this blue deck must have NO countermagic, must stand a good, realistic chance of winning, and must arrive by midnight Friday.
  6. DÛke Memento Mori

    I am up to the challenge Istanbul.
    I'll post it at the Deck area, ok?
    You'll see, it's gonna, gonna, gonna, gonna, it's gonna be me.
  7. HumanError Supreme Black Magus

    Oh man, this is really funny. It's a mighty duel between two people so hellbent on their colors and opinions that they'll never quit.

    Here's my take on it...I don't do tournament play. I HATE tournament play. It's resulting in people calling cards "broken" and playing these insanely powerful decks that completely destroy the fabric of everything fun in Magic.

    I used to play an extremely potent Type I monoartifact deck but stopped when I realized that even though I was having a lot of fun consistently winning, when I got on the other side of the table I found myself getting damned aggravated over being consistently locked down by Portcullis and other cards and being forced to sit there with a neutered deck.

    So stop your whining. But if I do have to pick a side on this...

    I'm going with Dark Ritual being broken, but vital to black. I don't think we need another ritual, the one we've got is great. Black's had the Ritual since the beginning of time. It's in every standalone set for a reason. Without it, black's a neuter. Try to imagine decks like Necro running without Rituals. Or black weenie. No, Ritual is vitally necessary to black functioning effectively and banning it was another sign of how truly braindead the DCI has become. Black needs that speed. It's not just combo. It's about getting it running as fast as the other "we've got value for a low price" cards in the red, green, and white. It's about getting it running before blue gets its two untapped islands in play.

    If you want to talk about cards that never should've been printed, talk Capsize. The singular most annoying card in Magic history.
  8. DÛke Memento Mori

    You are right HumanError(I love the name:))!
    There are more annoying cards of this Blue.
    I will make a blue deck, and it will be seen and revealed that blue is strong without it's additional ability: countermagic.
  9. Istanbul Sucker MCs call me sire.

    I HAVE an extremely lethal black weenie deck that doesn't use...and doesn't need...Rituals in it.
  10. DÛke Memento Mori

    The deck is almost ready. It's a legal Extended deck that doesn't use countermagic, and as a matter of fact, it would loose if it plays it, it has other stuff to do with the mana rather than wait on the opponent playing a spell to counter it.

    The deck is great and is almost ready, it's junder tweaking.

    I know you could build a good black weenie deck without Dark Rituals, but would it be as effective? Nope. You can't tell me thta the deck would actually be insufficient if it used Dark Rituals.

    Blue doesn't need countermagic just like black doesn't need Dark Ritual. The deck will be posted tonight, you can judge for youself then.

    By the way, while searching for the card mix, I have found tons of other startgies for blue that doensn't envolve countermagic, just to let you know...
  11. Istanbul Sucker MCs call me sire.

    More often than not, in my black speed deck, a Dark Ritual would be a dead draw.
  12. DÛke Memento Mori

    A countermagic card in the deck I designed would be less than useless and that's because the deck don't need that kind of disruption to begin with...

    Hey, I don't think it will beat 'every deck' out there, but it really is great, against a lot of decks.
  13. DÛke Memento Mori

    More often than not, in my blue control deck, a counter magic would be a useless draw.
  14. Apollo Bird Boy

    Istanbul, I'm really curious, could you post that deck? I'm wondering what kind of black weenie deck wouldn't be able to use a 1st turn Ritual. I'm not poking fun, I really want to know.

    I'm of the opinion that black can't survive without the Ritual. Isty may prove me otherwise, but I doubt there is a black deck that can survive in the extended environment without the Ritual.
  15. DÛke Memento Mori

    You know Istan, he's right. Atleast I tried, and you think I failed, good for you. How about showing us your weenie deck now that doesn't use Dark Ritual? Heck, that makes Dark Ritual a dead draw. I'm really interested.

    You know, if Blue can't survive without counter magic, than black isn't good without Dark Ritual, yes, it could survive, but without a Dark Ritual! Can you imagen the plays black would miss without a Dark Ritual? If you think Dark Ritual is broken, than check out Capsize and Whispers of the Muse, heck, checkout Force of Will! You can't just tell me those cards are well balanced and aren't a bit over the broken edge; you can't just tell me that without prooving it!
  16. Chaos Turtle Demiurgic CPA Member, Admin Assistant

    I think he was being sarcastic....
  17. DÛke Memento Mori

    Even if he is, I think he's right.
    I didn't really say that black "can't" survive without the Ritual, but rather would be nothing like it would be...
    I do want to see the deck...
  18. Cateran Overlord New Member

    ..anymore anyway. That banning hurt it quite a bit, but it still functions quite lethally. Now, instead of 3 turn 1 Carnophages or Zombie tokens or a Negator, it's just a one drop. It's as fast as anyone could get it, and is still fairly ass-kicking.

    In the same way, Blue doesn't die without counterspells, but there's a VERY definite difference. Blue becomes dependent upon stalling and flying creatures, which makes it watered down, much like Black is without it's explosive mana source.
  19. Istanbul Sucker MCs call me sire.

    Here, have a decklist.

    19x Swamp
    1x Mishra's Factory

    4x Bad Moon
    4x Unholy Strength
    4x Dark Triumph
    1x Subversion

    1-CC DROPS:
    4x Carnophage
    4x Pit Imp

    2-CC DROPS:
    4x Black Knight
    4x Fallen Askari

    3-CC DROPS:
    4x Dauthi Marauder
    4x Dauthi Mercenary
    2x Junun Efreet
    2x Spined Fluke

    Allow me to play two sample games for you.

    TURN 1: Draw 7. Play Swamp, tap for Pit Imp. Go.
    TURN 2: Draw. Play Swamp. Tap for Bad Moon, attack for 1. Go.
    TURN 3: Draw. Play Black Knight. Attack for 1. Go.
    TURN 4: Draw. Play Dauthi Mercenary. Attack for 4. Go.
    TURN 5: Draw. Play Dauthi Marauder. Attack for 7. Go.
    TURN 6: Draw. Play 2x Carnophage. Pump Pit Imp, attack for 12. Go.
    (Let's assume my opponent has found some way to survive this...)
    TURN 7: Go to 18. Draw. Pump Pit Imp by 2, attack with everything. Sacrifice a blocked Carnophage to cast Dark Triumph. Hit for 24.

    Game 2
    TURN 1: Draw 7. Play Swamp, tap for Carnophage. Go.
    TURN 2: Draw. Go to 19. Play Swamp. Attack for 2. Go.
    TURN 3: Draw. Go to 18. Tap out to play Dauthi Mercenary. Attack for 2. Go.
    (By this time, we'll assume that my Carnophage can no longer get through.)
    TURN 4: Draw. Tap out to play Bad Moon and Unholy Strength on the Dauthi Mercenary. Attack for 5. Go.
    TURN 5: Draw. Tap out to play ANOTHER Dauthi Mercenary. Attack for 5. Go.
    TURN 6: Draw. Tap to play Pit Imp. Pump one of the Dauthi Mercenaries, attack with both. Sacrifice Pit Imp and Carnophage to cast two Dark Triumphs, allowing me to hit for a total of 17 points of damage.

    Does it win by Turn 4? No. But it sure is lethal, and has a *lot* of evasion to get around blockers.
  20. DÛke Memento Mori

    And how exactly does a Dark Ritul hurt this deck?
    You could play a lot faster with a first-third turn Ritual.
    Yes, it's a good deck, your only restriction was not to play Dark Ritual, my resriction was not to play counter magic.

    Dark Ritual WILL NOT hurt this deck, and as a matter of fact, IT WILL help it.

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