Bush, anyone?

[Zhaneel]

"It's clear this guy could even care less about the first resolution. He's in total defiance."
-Bush

Ah, the irony.

As for the protests around the world by millions of people opposed to war with Iraq, Bush said they were irrelevant to his duty to protect America.


"Size of protest, it's like deciding, 'Well I'm going to decide policy based up on a focus group.' The role of a leader is to decide policy based upon the security - in this case - security of the people," he said.


"Democracy is a beautiful thing, and that people are allowed to express their opinion," he said.

-Philadelphia Inquirer

Millions turn out to protest. Does that tell you something? France and Germany are listening to their people, why don't you?

And perhaps someone can explain to me exactly how Iraq is a direct threat to the US.

 

[Multani]

The thing I've learned when talking about international politics is that, Logic, goodwill, kindness, etc. rarely have anything to do with it. They're simply masks and disguises for the true intent.

Politicians and national leaders will do anything, and I do mean anything that will benefit their nation, and their nation alone in either the short or long term. Potentially, this benefits themselves personally. Doing the right or moral thing matter absolutely jack...in most cases doing the Legal thing isn't a deterrent either.

You see, most nations are selfish to the extreme...no scratch that...ALL nations are selfish to the extreme...compare them to spoiled 5 year-old little boys. Always bickering, always wanting more...

You see, Iraq isn't a threat to the U.S...at least not on an international level. The situation is simple:

U.S. benefits (at least in the short run) from a victorious war with Iraq:
-war stimulates economy.
-Iraqi oil in U.S. control...now THAT's power
-A U.S. friendly puppet Arab state in the Middle East...other than Israel.

So, how do they 'market' this war...why, just like every other war in the late twentieth century of course! Market it by creating (or making up out of thin air) an excuse.
In this case, the excuse is "weapons of mass destruction", or "Saddam is a national threat to the U.S." I mean nevermind that such statements are false and hypocritical to the extreme, but most people won't take the 10 seconds it takes to logically analyze these statements (without logic, remember?), those that actually have the mental capacity that do so, will buy into the govt. propaganda because they have no sources that tell the other side of the story (or choose to ignore the information), and finally those that do figure it out, are far and few between, and get shot down from irrational flames spit out from those that do believe what the government shovels them.

And then, of course, there's just good' 'ole nationalism (aka as ignorance/arrogance/racial bias/hatred/etc.).

So, my advice to you, Zhaneel, when attempting to analyze why the U.S. is going to war...just don't.
It's an excercise in futility, and even if you do figure out the answer, you realize that 99% of the people out there don't give a rat's oink...

This all reminds me of a concept from Dune:

Most people out there are animals. On a few of us are truly human.


Disclaimer: This is MY opinion solely. Yes it is hypocritical to criticize others as being biased when I myself am biased by certain views, but the first step to objectivity is recognizing your bias...it's just that I have yet to make that second step...(and probably never will in my lifetime)...

 

[Zhaneel]

*sighs*

it's really too bad...


*fervently wishes The West Wing was real*

damn.

 

[Apollo]

I am very strongly resisting the urge to make a dirty joke based on the title of this thread. Just so you know.

 

[Zhaneel]

I appreciate your restraint I totally did not think of that...

 

[Shiro, Time Devourer]

A war v. Iraq is only justified if Iraq is actually threatening the US. Else, it's just a waste of soldiers.

I'm all for a war if Iraq is really, willfully supporting terrorism; particularly against the States. Else, cool your jets.

 

[Svenmonkey]

Seems like the Bush administration is just fueling off of the people's paranoia. I quite doubt there will be any significant terrorist attacks in the next several years, but everyone seems to think that they themselves are a big target for terrorists (and, of course, terrorists are EVERYWHERE) so all the suburbanites go out and buy duct tape and plastic sheeting.

Oh, yeah, Multani, war only stimulates the economy when you have to make jobs to supply the soldiers. We already have huge amounts of weapons and food in storage, and companies making us more, so this war would do very little good for the economy. Also, Iraq would not be friendly for long, for in that wasteland another dictator would probably spring up a few weeks after the US troops decided to split. The oil is the only benefit that we'd get out of this one.

 

[Nightstalkers]

to be a political leader is like a child with a mound of iced cream...

all bushy wants is his old mans praise that he done good.

Bush Sr: That was a good job that you did with Irak son.

Bushy Jr: Tipsy gowns and cotton tails are what I like tonight...

P.S. Yes, we are losing our collective minds.

 

[Y The Alien]

Most of the anti-war protestors oppose a war in Iraq for reasons equally as ignorant as the pro-war protestors' rationale.

 

[Zhaneel]

Like what? (no, that's not supposed to be an attack, I'm curious)

 

[Apollo]

Do mine eyes decieve me? It's Y the Alien! I remember you! WOW! *Apollo faints dead on the ground.*

 

[train]

*Train calls up county and stikes a deal...*
*Jailhouse Bertha strolls in minutes later, gets a humongous smile on her face, and begins resuscitating Apollo...*

I say get the war going, get it over with, and move on to the next country... I'd even donate ammunition...

 

[Zhaneel]

Poor Apollo... I'll save you! But how? Hmm... Look Bertha, it's jailhouse guy-whose-name-I-can't-remember!


On-topic: I still don't see why we need a war. *grumbles at Bush* Mr. War-is-our-last-possible-option-which-is-why-we're-cutting-all-diplomatic-ties-as-soon-as-we-possibly-can...

And you know what really bugs me? Restaurants that are boycotting French food. *growls*

 

[Y The Alien]

Originally posted by Zhaneel
Like what? (no, that's not supposed to be an attack, I'm curious)

As an anti-war proponent, I can honestly say that most of the people in my hometown who oppose the war do so purely out of a personal vendetta against whatever decisions George W. Bush and the United States Government make. They will parade around all day blathering "Saddam has no weapons", and, whether or not it is true notwithstanding, they've never taken a look at any briefings, satellite photos, U.N. reports, or ANY factual information on which they might base that decision. They simply know that George W. Bush and the United States Government believe that Iraq is a threat; therefore, they reflexively assume that Iraq is not a threat. Thanks to the media, we've grown to be so suspicious of anything our government puts out as to automatically discredit it as worthless simply because the U.S. endorses it.

Also, for non-ignorant but still terrible reasons, I give you one word for France, Germany, and Russia's anti-war motivations: oil. How perfectly honest of them to critisize the U.S. for being oil-hogs, when they merely want to keep their safe pipelines into Saddam's fields open and cheap.

EDIT:

Apollo:

Nope, nothing to see here. I'm a figment of your imagination.

 

[Apollo]

*Apollo revives only to see just what it was that revived him, which promptly causes him to die of horror. Moments later, a burst of flame burns Bertha's eyebrows off, as Apollo is reborn, though still not whole. He then flies over and grabs onto Zhaneel's foreleg, whimpering like a baby.

Y: No, no, I'm pretty sure I see you there. *Apollo pokes Y with a stick. Yeah, either you're there, or you're one of the darndest figments I've ever had...

 

[train]

*chuckles under his breath...*
Must be a bertha side-effect...

 

[Zhaneel]

*hisses at Bertha* Don't worry, I won't let her get you again...



I must say, part of my anti-war-ness is because of Bush. He's going about this the wrong way, for one thing. He completely tossed out diplomacy when it would have helped to at least go through the motions.
Another part is my aversion to killing lots o' people for oil and revenge. An assassination would be best, if it were possible.
As to the Russians, French, and Germans, well... It's not just them. The Japanese and the Chinese aren't exactly gung-ho about the war either, and the only reason Japan hasn't come completely out about it is because it wants the US on its side, understandably. I also think that these countries are listening to their people, who are quite anti-war.

 

[Multani]

[rant]

In the case of China and Japan, I would assume they're also afraid of something called Imperialism...You see, being the sole Superpower, the U.S. is in a position to easily consolidate its power over the world. The Europeon Union and Japan are only able to challenge it on an economic level, and China and Russia are no longer in a position to EFFECTIVELY challenge it on a military level. And right now, Bush is playing the military power left and right....my friends, we're looking at the true rise of the Third Roman Empire...and this one looks to be real one...

[/end rant]

 

[Zhaneel]

I don't know what I'd do if Bush were to get re-elected... Move to Canada, go on a rampage... I think I'd kill myself.

 

[Svenmonkey]

I think you'd probably just be rather angry and mad at the US voting population, but while continuing to live within the US.