Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Duel, Sep 11, 2001.
Ok, war, it means you come and bomb our neighbours?
War is not an option. The people who did this did not represent their country, nor the people as a whole. They represent a small group of zelots.
Those are who we need to deal with.
And although it makes my blood boil with rage seeing the palasinians dancing in the streets over this destruction. They arn't the ones that should be dealt with.
For those who are responsible I see no other punishment than death.
I believe you are probably correct. I certainly hope you are correct. However, there is a small issue with that. If it turns out that Ben Ladin et. al. are behind this, the government of Isreal is apparently posed to protect him and his people. In that case, what do we do? Do we simply walk away expecting them to take care of their internal problems?
I agree, the people who did this do not represent a country. However, if a country decides to protect those individuals rather than supporting justince and safety, anything could happen.
Please understand that I am not looking for or anticipating war. I am simply stating that to be fully realistic, it is a potential outcome.
Duel. You are 100% wrong. The people that did this ARE animals. All Palestine is one big gang of terrorists. Children, from the day they are born, are taught that the greatest glory in life is to kill themselves in the name of Allah. Stuff like that happens every day in Israel, only 5-10 people get killed, instead of 50000. Yassir Arafat speaks in English of peace with Israel, and in Arabic that all jews should be killed. And I can guarantee that if your friends were in World Trade Center today, you would not say things like that. America right now is in lose-lose situation. If they interfere in some conflict, we are labeled as killers and inhuman bastards (Serbia) and if they don't interfere (Africa) we're labeled as weak, passive people who don't give a sh!t. We need to teach those bastards that killing 50000 people is WRONG, and they've got hell to pay. Eye for an eye, blood for blood, that's how it's been since bliblical times, and that's how it shall be done now.
Actually, EricBess, isn't Bin Laden currently in Afghanistan? I thought they were the ones who were offering him sanctuary.
Israel? It's my thought that it was our continuing support for the Israeli government that prompted this attack. I'm sure they'd have no problem with our wanting Bin Laden's head on a stick, if it turns out his people were behind it.
In fact, I'd be disappointed if they didn't help us put it there.
has any one heard the phrase "an eye for an eye only results in more blindness" I believe it sums up my view of the situation.
I think you misunderstood. I'm scared when you consider them less than human. When you punish the country or the race for the crimes of fanatics. I'm scared when you call ANYONE "animals" because that's been the rallying cry for every piece of racial slavery and genocide. When you call for people to be "nailed to the wall" which to me, implies a cruel intention, a vindictiveness in our assault. Vengeance or justice, here, accomplishes very little. Deterring it, setting an example, and preventing it are more important.
I DO NOT think there should be no punishment. I would like to see a trial of whoever we think did this. Bin Laden or otherwise, I'd like to see a trial, an EU court, maybe, and the government being forced to present PROOF. I would like to see us fall under the laws we accuse them of breaking. And I would like very little more than to see them be punished. Not bombed. And not before we even know who did it.
Arhar and Griffith, I'm sorry. I can't see them as animals. I'm just as likely to see you as animals, for wanting them dead so violently. I can't look at someone, no matter their crimes, and judge them less than human.
Also, my aunt and uncle live in manhattan, pretty close to the WTC. Please, don't tell me that if my loved ones were in danger, I'd feel differently. They were.
First of all, Bin Laden has done enough to us in the past that we should kill him now anyway even if he didn't do this, to finally end the threat he poses.
Now, we have a civil war breaking out in Afghanistan, (about an hour or so ago, to be precise) somehow it seems fantastically unlikely that there is no relation.
One last rational thing before I go insane with fury again, this is the anniversary of the Camp David Accords. That doesn't necessarily mean anything, but you never know.
rest of post deleted due to assorted insane ramblings, grumblings, and threats of vengeance
Duel, there is a large differance between wanting to see someone die and actually commit the heinous act on an individual, let alone 50,000 individuals.
Ransac, cpa trash man
Duel is right.
Grief is fair.
A desire to see justice is fair.
A desire to stand firm is fair.
A desire to kill as many of 'those towelhead motherf*ckers' as I have seen a great many Americans call them today IS NOT FAIR.
Re: Bin Laden. Nobody knows where he is, currently he is suspected to be hiding out in Afghanistan, however the Afghan authorities are not making any official attempt to protect him and in fact dont know if he is in the country or not. Thats what hiding means. If Bin Laden was simply 'under the protection of the Afghan government' he'd have been killed by US special forces six years ago.
There is nobody you can punish for this crime than one man, and that man has not been seen for 3 years. The fear Duel is expressing is that if the US people and government cant get their hands on this man they will simply lash out at whatever is the next best thing.
wanting someone to die is the first step for such a thing, I think you'd make a quite good terrorist with your attidute
well, seriously, the terroristic act was very evil, and I hope the ppl who did this get caught so they can't do such things again.
You have prolly no idea how it is to live in a state which has a huge propaganda machine against the US (which is in the case of Palestina and Iraque also helped by bombs made in USA), but I lived in a country which had a decent level of anti-american propaganda (the GDR), where all the children learned to hate american capitalist pigs. It really sucks and in retrospect I can't believe how blinded I was (I was like 8 years old and easily influencable ), even though it wasn't that evil that many ppl would've danced when 10000s of amercian would have died. (just a thought, maybe it's american propaganda to show a few ppl dancing in the streets, while other ppl in the same state don't really like it)
I'm really shocked when I see how fanatical some individuals here are. But I guess there's also some propaganda in America too.
First of all, we're not absolutely sure of anything. It might not just be a group of fanatics; it could be a country. Or, those fanatics could be sanctioned by a country. If so, I would think we'd have little choice but to go to war. If indeed it is just a small group of psychos, and the nation they are holed up in gives them up willingly, then I'm all for a trial. But what would you have us do if (supposing it is Bin Laden) Afghanistan refuses to give him up? We would have to go in after him, even if it meant innocents die, to ensure nothing like this happens again.
And I have a hard time thinking of somebody who would kill 50,000 people as human. You say that it's a rallying cry for racial issues and genocide. Well, I must say that I am biased against anybody that would kill that many people, and I would be OK with killing anybody like that. It may have often been a horrible stereotype, but in this case I think it's a fitting one.
hiroshima 60,000 lives
nagasaki 40,000 lives
following radiation damage, aproxamatly 2,000,000
i am by no means justifing what they did, i am saying we are no better. Now the common arguement is that was war and this isn't. Well those millions of japanise people that died probably did nothing wrong and didn't want war. Sorry guys, we are just as bad or worse
Its to early to judge, anything.
People are just looking for a scapegoat. It'll be some other country tommorow, and another the next day, until we get some facts.
The only thing we can say at this time is that if it is a terriost group, regardless of whom, we have to respond, or else all other terrisom parties lunge on our nation.
...I have no time to say it all over again. Read Wonka's post in the Off-Topic area. I said exactly how I feel...just for a little taste: the U.S. got what it deserves. Many lives were lost, and that's not fair...but again...that's the way it's been goin' on. You only notice it now because it happened to YOU.
The Americans have been paying the Irish to kill the British for 30 years.
The shock and anger of many common americans only reflects the arrogant invincibility they had believed they possessed.
"Some pissant little people we`ve been beating up on for fifty years actually tried to fight back? Kill them all, the cowards."
Simplistic, perhaps, but not entirely without truth. Many Americans feel this way. The best thing that can come from this is a change in American foreign policy to a more globally acceptable line.
Vengeance is the answer. Vengeance must, and will, be had.
But vengeance must be tempered with justice, or we are no better than those who committed this act of unthinkable violence. They are human beings. They may be insanely violent and foolish human beings, but they are human beings.
As a rule, human beings who commit this kind of atrocity should probably die.
HOWEVER! The great crux of this problem is that not everyone in the vicinity of these people are the guilty. Some people are asking for a "big hole in the map" where this act initiated. The people asking for this type of response are just as bad as any terrorist. They ask for the death of innocents, in the process of taking out the guilty. You ask that we burn an entire nation, to destroy one man, or one mans' army? I think not.
To destroy one target, I cannot condone the destruction of an entire country. Those crying for justice and revenge, try to seek _real_ justice. If blood must be had, then let it actually be the blood of the guilty. Forge anger with logic, and it becomes justice.
I'm not out for vengeance. I want justice. If justice calls for death, and I think it may, then I can accept the blood of the guilty. I would die myself to save the life of any human being. I won't hesitate to hold the blood of the guilty.
But I won't stand for spilling the blood of an innocent. Those are the people I would die to save.
Yes, and you know that for sure, right?
Look, as I've said before, all of you people whining about US foreign policy really have no clue. It's a lose-lose situation. If we interfere "Oh look at them killing innocent civilians!!!". If we don't interfere, it's "Oh look at this nation, most powerful army in the world, sitting back and letting this injustice go on!" Justice? What justice? Killing 50000 people, you calling that justice? USA had it coming? Yeah, whatever you guys say
You don't believe that.
THat is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. The U.S. pay the Irish to kill the British., GIVE ME A BREAK!!!!!! And why is this even the current subject right now! 50,000 people just die and all you are thinking about is "Serves them right". THERE IS NO ACTION THAT IS JUSTIFIED IN THIS AS THE END RESULT!!!!! This action is simply inexcusable and I hope you all agree with me on that.
Ransac, cpa trash man
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