Discussion in 'Games Run By CPA Members' started by Limited, Aug 2, 2006.
Sure, I will start trying to piece something together for 12 this afternoon....
Here's a question...
Birds have been played.
Clerics have been played.
Can someone build a Bird Cleric Deck where the tribe is of type "Bird Cleric"?
If they are ok, what about Zombie Clerics?
I'm just looking at some different tribes and wondered if anyone ever wanted to try these with our tribe restrictions.
No. I don't think that works. I think a tribe is supposed to be only one creature type. Bird clerics are still clerics and still birds, so it shouldn't be allowed.
Updated with Game 12 results (just need tribes from everyone):
Spiderman: 1 Placement Point
Oversoul: 2 Kill Points, 5 Placement Points
DarthFerret: 2 Placement Points
Al0ysiusHWWW: 3 Placement Points
BigBlue: 3 Placement Points
Mooseman: 4 Placement Points
So a possible 10 points since Al0ysiusHWWW and BigBlue dropped at the "same" time...
Hey, I was thinking...
It's been a long time since the first tribal games were played and this last game along took "a year" to finish. Due to the lengthy nature of the game, maybe we can add a rule stating a tribe is eligible to be played again after two years from when the tribal game finishes? That way, cards from the expansions that came out during that time can be used to boost a tribe again. What say you guys?
Acually, I think the advent of changelings have really expanded the tribes
Well, yeah, they boost the tribes that were undermanned before. But we probably started this, what, 2-3 years ago and the 6 or so expansions since then have also introduced new tribal cards that could be fun to see or play...
Game 13 results:
turgy22: 1 Placement Point
Spidey: 1 Kill Point, 2 Placement Points
Mooseman: 3 Placement Points
Oversoul: 2 Kill Points, 4 Placement Points
So I want to revisit the possibility of changing the rules, possibly using the Legacy banned list, even though I was the only person to express interest in it last time...
After the game before this last one, I tried building a new deck with "Kor" as my tribe. I goldfished it and it sucked. I reasoned that I had just won three tribal games in a row and that I would have a big target on my head for the next one because no one would want to let me go for four in a row. I would get slaughtered if I played some slow deck. I thought I would only stand a chance if I built some brutal deck with broken cards. Workshop seemed like the card to do that and constructs seemed like a good tribe for it. I dumped almost all of my hand onto the board in my first turn and was ready to dominate if no one could stop me. Then the game got delayed for several months. By the time we got going again, I was left thinking, "Who's this jerk playing a Workshop deck? What is wrong with him?"
But really, anyone could have used Workshop at any point before now. And it's not like Workshop is the only card like this. I'm not adamantly opposed to playing this way. It isn't, however, the way I'd most prefer to play. And I get the impression that others would rather play more normal decks than see who can get his broken cards first. Using the Legacy banned list is the easiest way I can think of to limit craziness. It's certainly not the only way. But I do think we should do something, so I guess I'm bringing it up again...
LOL. More like a year 
I disagree, mainly because you're the only one playing these crazy combo decks and frankly, I think would benefit the most. It's my fault the game got delayed a year but seeing the results, I'm kinda discouraged that the game basically lasted less than 5 turns(?)/rather quickly because of your combo-ness, which no one else seems to play and seems to have rather straightforward decks (unless no one else had time to develop, as you mentioned about turgy22's deck in the thread.
So my inclination is to keep the games as is. However, seeing as no one seems to play combo decks nor decks to stop combo and that you have dominated the last 4 games *and* it was my fault that the last game was delayed for a year because of my laziness in deck building (or more, lack of inspiration), I'm becoming rather disenchanted with the whole format and am thinking of stepping out for a while, so depending on the other's opinions about allowing Legacy, it could happen. I will mention that if it does though, that will probably mean I will stop playing for good - I have a hard enough time worrying about current allowable cards.
I'm not saying anything about combo decks though. Or maybe it depends on how you define combo decks. I didn't think of my Angels deck as a combo deck. It was pretty aggro-controlish. And I played combo-reliant decks before, like my chimeras deck that lost. The difference I see is that it was using Lifeline, where the deck I just played had Workshop, Skullclamp, Ravager, Mana Vault, Tinker, Mana Crypt, Academy, etc. If I understand you correctly, you're saying that I would benefit the most from banning broken cards that only I am playing. Is that right?
Really though, I do think I would benefit. No one wants to play a format where I use more powerful cards than everyone else. Me included. But the fact that no one else used these cards, at least not to this extent, suggests to me (and maybe I'm mistaken) that it wasn't the type of game others had in mind. Sort of like the game where I played Crabs. I was picturing a relatively slow game in which I would have time to build up some creatures and play control-switching games with Chromeshell Crab and such. Instead, BigBlue ran me over before I stood a chance. I'm not blaming him for that. He later seemed to regret using the deck he did and I guess I'm doing the same now and this time was more egregious anyway, but whatever. My point is that people can come to a game with different expectations and I think that happened here. If we were to keep doing these and I were to keep building decks like my constructs deck, either others would use more broken cards in order to keep up, or no one would. If the former, I suspect that this would turn into a "who can draw more brokenness in his opening hand" contest. If the latter, well, that's even worse.
On the other hand, we could all just as easily not use certain cards. Workshop, for example. That's sort of what I'm advocating anyway. But in order to know which cards it is we aren't using, we need to have some sort of discussion.
How straightforward is "straightforward"? I mean, yes, no one really had a chance to do anything last time. But that was just one game. What about the one before that? I played a deck based around using Tradewind Rider and Seedborn Muse to bounce everyone else's permanents. Mooseman played a deck that ramped up to massive power with various allies. Turgy used treefolk to find treefolk to find treefolk (and make them indestructable). Depending on what counts as straightforward, yours might have been the only straightforward deck there (beatdown with orcs, as far as I could tell).
Hypothetically, if I'd played a Workshop deck in the very first tribal game, don't you think everyone would either decide to change the banned list or start coming prepared for that sort of thing? Instead I sprang it on everyone after over a dozen games, but so what? Shouldn't that not matter?
Man, I'm not sure what to say to that. For one thing, I do want to point out that I didn't actually dominate four games in a row. The wurms deck and the spirits deck both won in the end, but the games were pretty close.
Anyway, I certainly don't want to drive you off and if you're not amenable to modifying the banned list, then I think we shouldn't. Still, it seems like you recognize the problem with broken cards. And you'd rather keep it the same anyway? Well, how about this? I'll try one last time to persuade you...
These are the only cards not already restricted anyway that would now be banned, assuming that I didn't miss any...
Bazaar of Baghdad
Oath of Druids
Survival of the Fittest
That's it. Is that so much? I don't even think it's an optimal list. Some of those cards aren't problematic anyway. Anyone worried about Mind Twist or Black Vise? And that is, essentially it. Nothing else to keep track of. There are a few cards restricted in Vintage that are not banned in Legacy, like Burning Wish. But those aren't problematic either. For overall deck-building, I contend that this is really a minor change. Sure, no Sol Ring anymore. But most of what people have already been doing, they could still do. I, however, used Workshop and Skullclamp in my last deck, Survival of the Fittest in the one before that, and Land Tax in the one before that. So maybe I would have to change me deckbuilding a bit, but from what I've seen, you should be able to get away with what you've been doing the whole time. Or maybe, I'm wrong. You tell me.
Here's what we're currently using: http://www.wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Resources.aspx?x=judge/resources/sfrvintage
Here's something we could change to: http://www.wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Resources.aspx?x=judge/resources/sfrlegacy
Would that affect your decks much? Because it would make one person killing everyone else by the fifth turn a lot harder.
Anyway, if you're not up for it, I'll drop it now and never speak of it again.
If the new banned cards are listed on the first page with the cards already listed, I have no problem with it since we are getting a bit thin on tribes, decks are getting tough to build.
I have played some quick decks and some slow ones, the great thing about multi-player games is you never know what someone will play. One of us could of had an artifact hate deck or furnace dragon using deck.
The cards currently listed at the top of this thread as being banned were never actually banned for this. Limited simply copied and pasted from the rules for tribal in Magic Online, which has a completely different cardpool (apparently there is now a Legacy version of tribal in Magic Online, but back then I think there was only one version). It also references the Magic Online cardpool. I should really just write a new version of that first post and ask Spidey to paste it in, as the current version has several errors...
Anyway, here's the banned list for Magic Online's Tribal Wars Legacy: http://www.wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Resources.aspx?x=magic/rules/tribal
It's tailored to tribal games in particular, so maybe it would be seen as better. Magic Online does still have a smaller cardpool though, I'm pretty sure. Anyway, it's another option, I guess.
And now that you bring it up, yeah, there's also the fact that we're running down on tribes. I know there's been mentions of letting tribes rotate back in after a while or something of that nature. What to you guys think of that? I don't care that much. Getting down to weaker tribes and needing to be clever about deckbuilding could be fun too. I guess I voice my support for whichever option would get more people involved for that. Or maybe it's down to four of us no matter what? I don't know.
Oversoul: I may have misunderstood what you were trying to say. I think I thought you were saying to "unban" cards from the Legacy Banned List instead of using it. So what you're saying is that we're adding cards to the list of cards we can't use?
It could be just me about all of this; like I said (or alluded), I don't have a lot of time for deckbuilding so what I do tend to build is pretty straightforward - creatures and what I think would be "fun" spells to augment them or shore up a weakness. I'm not sure what your tribe was last game if it wasn't Arcbound, but I certainly wouldn't have thought to use Skullclamp to keep killing my own guys so I could draw cards and keep casting them. Or using Workshop for the artifact mana. I probably would have only used those cards had I found a deck on the Net that I could copy
So maybe it was just the relatively quickness of last game that has me kinda "meh" about the whole thing. It shouldn't spoil the fun for the rest of you
It's true Magic Online does have a smaller cardpool, although they are adding sets regularly. I'm not sure if the Tribal Wars part is updated to reflect that when sets *are* added though.
I guess we can use whatever we come to an agreement/majority as to what to use.
As for reusing tribes, I can't remember what we said before, but perhaps we could "unretire" them after 5 games (I just picked 5 as a nice, round number). So for Tribal 15, all the tribes used in games 1-9 are okay to use again.
Ah, I get now why you said what you said. Yes, I'm talking about banning cards. The cards that are restricted in Vintage are generally banned in Legacy, plus a few more like Earthcraft, Skullclamp, Oath, etc. I forget which cards that are restricted in Vintage are not banned in Legacy, but I think those cards wouldn't be problematic for tribal because they're things like Burning Wish and Gifts Ungiven.
Yeah, like I said, I was about to go with Kor. Well, one of my ideas for them was to use Stuffy Doll and Pariah's Shield. I could redirect damage from my creatures to Stuffy Doll and from myself to Stuffy Doll. But it was slow and lacked offense. I looked at Stuffy Doll's creature type and wondered what other creatures were constructs. I kept Stuffy Doll and Pariah's Shield, but the rest of the deck turned into a Ravager/Clamp deck. Too bad because the Kor deck probably would have been more fun.
I would guess that it is, from looking at their banned list anyway.
I like this. I have no idea how long this will actually last, but this would, in principle, enable it to be a perpetual thing. Otherwise we would eventually run out of tribes (although first we'd probably run out of tribes that don't completely suck).
So are you saying totally switch over to the Legacy Banned List? Or merely add it to the Vintage Banned list and keep the Vintage restricted cards that aren't on it still restricted?
Well, on one hand, that could be "interesting" - sucky tribes vs each other. On the other, we have been going at this for some time and there's been new sets coming at so those old tribes should have a shot at being reused with those cards
So, should we try another game? I'm still gonna try some bizarre tribe and any banned list you guys come up with.
I guess, but this probably needs to be hammered out so everyone knows what the "ground rules" are.
Yeah, I was thinking of just switching over entirely. The cards that are restricted in Vintage but not banned in Legacy are, let's see, it looks like...
Fact or Fiction
Lion's Eye Diamond
Thirst for Knowledge
...none of which I'm particularly worried about, especially with the other stuff banned. But it seems an easy enough option to implement (simply use both the Legacy banned list and the Vintage restricted list).
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