T
train
Guest
And the coil tokens could be "clamped"...
H
Homestar
Guest
yea.....
H
Homestar
Guest
yea, i think so too.
phyrexian walker is great......
phyrexian walker is great......
T
train
Guest
But you can't clamp them and kill them immediately...
H
Homestar
Guest
you could to shield sphere if u block wiht him a lot
T
Tabasco
Guest
Yay you' re using Bombardment!!!!
Enduring Renewal is the third combo piece
Kobold + Renewal + Bombardment = Infinite Damage.
I would just play around with one renewal if anything. The Diabolic Intents couls easily search it out.
You would then be playing three colors (RBw). Are you using Duals, Fetches, or City of Brass? What does the mana pool look like?
well, cometo think of it i think all your red spells...aside from bombardment.....cost nothing, so how about
Budget Mana pool
4x Tainted Peak
12x Swamp
4x City of Brass or Mirrodin's Core/Gemstone Mine
or the more expensive route
4x Scablands
4x Bloodstained Moor
2x Mountain
10x Swamp
Depends on you money flow I guess.
I hope that helps.
Enduring Renewal is the third combo piece
Kobold + Renewal + Bombardment = Infinite Damage.
I would just play around with one renewal if anything. The Diabolic Intents couls easily search it out.
You would then be playing three colors (RBw). Are you using Duals, Fetches, or City of Brass? What does the mana pool look like?
well, cometo think of it i think all your red spells...aside from bombardment.....cost nothing, so how about
Budget Mana pool
4x Tainted Peak
12x Swamp
4x City of Brass or Mirrodin's Core/Gemstone Mine
or the more expensive route
4x Scablands
4x Bloodstained Moor
2x Mountain
10x Swamp
Depends on you money flow I guess.
I hope that helps.
H
Homestar
Guest
yea id go with city of brass AND mirrodins core....4 brass, 2 core, but, thats me
T
train
Guest
OS - If I may ask - Why does enduring work best with the artifact creatures?...
as a pre-lude - if you're thinking it's because they're artifacts also - it checks for the "creature" type and still discards them...
as a pre-lude - if you're thinking it's because they're artifacts also - it checks for the "creature" type and still discards them...
Oversoul
The Tentacled One
No, wasn't thinking that...Originally posted by train
OS - If I may ask - Why does enduring work best with the artifact creatures?...
as a pre-lude - if you're thinking it's because they're artifacts also - it checks for the "creature" type and still discards them...
It's because before the deck gets its combo, they have higher toughnesses than the Kobolds and the Ornithopter has flying as well. There's no reason to be using inferior creatures when you don't have to, and so 12 slots in such a deck would be taken up by artifact creatures before one would even have to think about running Kobolds...
T
train
Guest
Okay - that makes some good sense... but they don't help with the clamps either way... and good early utility like humbles and swords can keep them at bay...
It would be red/white - so don't forget bolts, and fireblasts!...
It would be red/white - so don't forget bolts, and fireblasts!...
H
Homestar
Guest
i dont think i would play fieblast in a 2 color deck cuz the mana cost isnt to good and sacing two mountains COULD quite possibly hurt you later and its not worth it in early/mid game.
but of course, ya kno, Train knos best
but of course, ya kno, Train knos best
Oversoul
The Tentacled One
I know that they're bad with Clamp, but as I said earlier...
"Yeah, which is why the Clamp thing works best with the Kobolds...
But the Enduring Renewal thing works best with the artifact creatures...
I don't like the idea of trying both together really..."
I am sticking with that statement, but if the two were hybridized, Kobolds would be better, although once Ashnod's Altar comes out, it doesn't matter at all...
T
train
Guest
I guess we weren't looking at the altar, when we started looking at the clamp so much...
And homestar - it's not bad to run blast in multi-color decks, because it usually turns into the kill... not a normally played card...
And homestar - it's not bad to run blast in multi-color decks, because it usually turns into the kill... not a normally played card...
F
Force of Will Smith
Guest
This is an apprentice deck.. a.k.a. looks fine on apprentice but never works in real life.. I had a mortal combat deck that ran a goblin recruiter+Grindstone+Mortal Kombat
I made another variant of this deck but after your opening hand, it never usually went anywhere...
it ran
4x Tombstone Stairwell
4x Nether Void
4x Multani's Presence
Songs of the Damned
Drain Life
ton of 0cc
**Note: Recycle only gives you 1 for 1, whereas clamp is much better. Nether cripples your opponent, but its a $30 card, and not as effective as wind cards.**
Nether Void says when you cast a creature spell if you dont pay 3 its countered, multani's presence says when a spell you play is countered draw a card, repeat repeat, play a tombstone for 30+ zombies. Or you could cast songs of the damned adding B to your poor for each creature in your graveyard and drain for 28 life..
I think to make these kinds of crazy decks work you need 2 things..
mana engine and library manipulation.
Youve got the mana engine, you just cant control your draws, not even with clamp.
You need something like this...
// Creatures:
4 Skullclamp
4 Dark Ritual
4 Tangleroot
2 Brain Freeze
// Red:
4 Tolarian Winds
4 Windfall
// 0cc:
4 Ornithopter
4 Crimson Kobolds
4 Shield Sphere
4 Phyrexian Walker
4 Crookshank Kobolds
// Lands:
2 Drain Life
2 Songs of the Damned
2 Yawgmoth's Will
4 Lotus Petal
8 Island
10 Swamp
The winds are amazing here. its a 70 Cards, you want either 2 tangleroots or a yawgmoth's will after theres at least 5 creatures in your grave, or a brainfreeze you can re-use. I found you want to go 1 of 2 routes
play and pop as many creatures (double tangle if you can w/ help from a ritual) frequent winds, songs of damned for fuel.
Play a will and go for the throat, usually playing all 4 petals and cutting it close.
One cool thing about this deck is you can make it as risky as you like.
You can re-use previously clamped creatures to draw but only after if they were put there before your Will.After Yawg will is played you can clamp as many as you need for the kill.
Brain Freeze is also infinitely better.. test games typically have 27 spells played minimum before brain freeze.
You even get to waste mana right before freeze
I made another variant of this deck but after your opening hand, it never usually went anywhere...
it ran
4x Tombstone Stairwell
4x Nether Void
4x Multani's Presence
Songs of the Damned
Drain Life
ton of 0cc
**Note: Recycle only gives you 1 for 1, whereas clamp is much better. Nether cripples your opponent, but its a $30 card, and not as effective as wind cards.**
Nether Void says when you cast a creature spell if you dont pay 3 its countered, multani's presence says when a spell you play is countered draw a card, repeat repeat, play a tombstone for 30+ zombies. Or you could cast songs of the damned adding B to your poor for each creature in your graveyard and drain for 28 life..
I think to make these kinds of crazy decks work you need 2 things..
mana engine and library manipulation.
Youve got the mana engine, you just cant control your draws, not even with clamp.
You need something like this...
// Creatures:
4 Skullclamp
4 Dark Ritual
4 Tangleroot
2 Brain Freeze
// Red:
4 Tolarian Winds
4 Windfall
// 0cc:
4 Ornithopter
4 Crimson Kobolds
4 Shield Sphere
4 Phyrexian Walker
4 Crookshank Kobolds
// Lands:
2 Drain Life
2 Songs of the Damned
2 Yawgmoth's Will
4 Lotus Petal
8 Island
10 Swamp
The winds are amazing here. its a 70 Cards, you want either 2 tangleroots or a yawgmoth's will after theres at least 5 creatures in your grave, or a brainfreeze you can re-use. I found you want to go 1 of 2 routes
play and pop as many creatures (double tangle if you can w/ help from a ritual) frequent winds, songs of damned for fuel.
Play a will and go for the throat, usually playing all 4 petals and cutting it close.
One cool thing about this deck is you can make it as risky as you like.
You can re-use previously clamped creatures to draw but only after if they were put there before your Will.After Yawg will is played you can clamp as many as you need for the kill.
Brain Freeze is also infinitely better.. test games typically have 27 spells played minimum before brain freeze.
You even get to waste mana right before freeze
F
Force of Will Smith
Guest
because on apprentice you have perfect shuffles. Which doesnt imitate real life..
You could have a 500 card deck on apprentice and the lands would be distributed just as evenly as a 60 or 30 card deck.
If your deck is diabolical on apprentice it will probably be pretty good in real life.
If your deck has an infinite every opening hand, then expect it to happen every 1/4 hands in real life.
I think it also has something to do with the shuffle routines programmed in.
i've noticed this change in about 6 or 7 of my apprentice decks to reality, so i mustn't be the only one.
This last deck is pretty insane on apprentice, but it needs slightly more consistency to actually be built.
You could have a 500 card deck on apprentice and the lands would be distributed just as evenly as a 60 or 30 card deck.
If your deck is diabolical on apprentice it will probably be pretty good in real life.
If your deck has an infinite every opening hand, then expect it to happen every 1/4 hands in real life.
I think it also has something to do with the shuffle routines programmed in.
i've noticed this change in about 6 or 7 of my apprentice decks to reality, so i mustn't be the only one.
This last deck is pretty insane on apprentice, but it needs slightly more consistency to actually be built.
Oversoul
The Tentacled One
Well, you can't have a 500 card deck on Apprentice, at least not with the versions I've used. It is basically guaranteed to crash it. You can have something like a 150 card deck and be okay I think but 500 is right out...
And as far as I've noticed, Appr. does a good job of randomizing everything when it shuffles, which is what you're SUPPOSED to do when you use real cards. Granted, a deck with tons of Timetwister effects is going to take a long time to kill (because I did this with Appr. and with proxies and the proxied deck took a half hour to kill) without something that shuffles so instantaneously, but that's not the point...
And as far as I've noticed, Appr. does a good job of randomizing everything when it shuffles, which is what you're SUPPOSED to do when you use real cards. Granted, a deck with tons of Timetwister effects is going to take a long time to kill (because I did this with Appr. and with proxies and the proxied deck took a half hour to kill) without something that shuffles so instantaneously, but that's not the point...