The question of questions: What is casual?

Discussion in 'General CPA Stuff' started by TheCasualOblivion, Feb 16, 2005.

  1. DÛke Memento Mori

    An advice from a humble 22 year old, Gizmo: learn how to address someone without making a complete child out of yourself. I hear it works better that way, well at least it saves your posts from deletion, which should be a progress as far as your concerned. Then...perhaps we'll learn something from you, if you have anything to teach. And by the way, saying you disagree with someone (no matter how well you say it, or in your case, no matter how bad you say it) doesn't mean anything: try making some objective points, focus on the issue, share your experiences, think about the topic at hand, try to use what you know to learn something you don't know, in other words, discuss. Ok?

    Thank you.

    DÛke, who's thinking how in the world did Gizmo manage through higher education, if at all.
  2. TheCasualOblivion 10 year Veteran Newbie

    So I need you to define me as a casual player DUke??

    DUke, I congratulate you on your "article." Its the best piece anyone has put on this thread, and it probably deserves to be put out on the front of this site. Just because you've shed more light, put more effort, made more points, and done it with better writing than any of us in THAT post does not mean that your "article" is 100% right or beyond dispute.

    Therefore, let me truly define the entire argument:

    You, DUke, say that me, Gizmo, and some others who have been disagreeing with you are not casual players, and me, Gizmo, some others who have been disagreeing with you, and what sounds like a few of the whiners on MTG:Online have basically said that you(and definitely HOUTS while we're at it) are not casual players, though we may not have said so in those exact words.

    In conclusion: WE ARE ALL IDIOTS!

    Moving on...

    Lets turn this whole argument in a different direction. If I was to boil one thing down that the two sides are arguing about, it would be the following: The definition and significance of the phrase "giving your opponent a break." Giving your opponent a break means two things mainly. First, being a little loose and forgiving with the rules when playing with somebody who either doesn't know them well enough, or doesn't play the game seriously enough to pay too much attention to them. This doesn't mean rule breaking, rule creation or cheating. This just means when your opponent screws up, you can be forgiving and either let it slide if it doesn't affect the game(like playing out of turn), or going back and correcting the mistake when necessary. Second is giving your opponent a break while playing the game when the outcome of the game is not in doubt. Giving a break here means that when facing an opponent who stinks, you either play your deck badly, or grab a weaker deck that will make more of a game of it.

    The argument is over what this giving a break means to the game. DUke, in "THE" post, stated that giving a break like this is outside of the definition of the game of magic. Magic is played by following the rules and only following the rules. Loosening or overlooking the rules is "external" magic, otherwise known as outside the game. In earlier posts, when discussing facing an opponent who stinks and either playing badly or playing a weaker deck, DUke argued that playing down to your opponent accomplishes nothing, is insulting, and that you should play everyone with your A-game and just grind them into the dirt I guess. Casual magic is defined by him as playing competitively to win, while following the rules as written. Doing otherwise is outside of the game of "casual magic."

    Myself and others have basically argued that giving your opponent a break(only when neccessary) is essential and indeed part of the definition of casual magic. I would personally describe being unable or unwilling to give a lesser opponent a break to be completely outside of the definition of casual magic. To us, casual magic means playing less competively than tournament players. The "casual magic" DUke describes really isn't all that different in tone or attititude than Tournament magic.

    I think this is the important point to argue here. The answer to "what is casual magic?" lies somewhere inside of that argument.
  3. Ferret CPA Founder, Slacker

    My conclusion from all of this: I have now, and always will, hate labels. All they do is put people in nice little groups so that you can make an assumption about their whole entire personality before they even get to say what they feel. People like to use lables because they're too lazy to find out what really goes on in their heads.

    It's amazing how this thread was started to try and find out what makes Casual Players think, but it degenerated into just throwing people into easy to sort categories.

    Time for another wake-up call folks: You're all human. That's the only thing everyone here has in common (at least since my cat stopped posting here :) ). Each one of us plays Magic in a way that suits us. Each one of us has our own version of "fun" doing it. Each one of us wants to win in our own ways. If everyone was identical and played the same decks the game would be utterly boring.

    I don't care how long you've been playing or how much tournament experience you have, it's all the same. You're an individual...


    "...just like everybody else..."
  4. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    And I disagree with THAT :) "Hating labels" and not making the effort to find out what they are and mean is lazy in itself. Enough people exist to cause a label to be formed in the first place - trying to define it can be an intellectual and philosophical exercise in itself.

    You shouldn't make the mistake of "knowing" labels exist and automatically assuming that if someone seems to fit a label more than most, that person must have all the other characteristics of such a label, which is also what it seems you're saying. That's fine. But just don't dismiss the existence of labels out of hand...
  5. Killer Joe Active Member

    I said something like that 50 posts ago!
  6. DÛke Memento Mori

    I never said that. I don't know where you get your conclusions from. You are one insecure, self-misunderstanding person. Needless to say, I stopped reading your post after you showed me what you think my conclusion was. When you learn to stop your self-victimizing efforts, be a little more rational, then we'll be able to talk. Really man. This is not the first time you refer to yourself as an "idiot."

    Spiderman, thank you. I was going to say just that. :)
  7. TheCasualOblivion 10 year Veteran Newbie

    apparently philosophy majors don't have a sense of humor


  8. DÛke Memento Mori

    You've called yourself an "idiot" so many times. It's amusing. It became more than a joke. It means something. Too much lack of self-image, maybe. I don't know. But to be honest, that's not the level of conversation I am willing to have.
  9. TheCasualOblivion 10 year Veteran Newbie

    It does mean something, a point you've missed many times.
  10. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    It means you can poke fun at yourself?
  11. TheCasualOblivion 10 year Veteran Newbie

    Since I have been asked by someone else besides DUke to explain myself(in a ways)...

    1. Not so much poking fun of myself, but not taking myself so seriously
    2. Sarcasm aimed at Duke(and HOUTS at times), referring to myself as they refer to me
    3. Kind of adds to #2, but when DUke talks about people who play less seriously than he does, he's condescending towards them. They aren't playing his game and are lesser players. Therefore, we are idiots. DUke doesn't say it that specifically and he'll say I'm twisting his words, but if you read him the sentiment is there.
    4. When I said "WE ARE ALL IDIOTS" I was referring to us all taking one position or another and calling each other names.
  12. DÛke Memento Mori

    Idiot Class. This is a person who can't take themselves seriously because essentially, they have nothing to take seriously, neither in their lives nor in their heads, not in their relationships, and certainly not in Magic. They are idiots who claim they know how to "poke fun" at themselves, when really, that's mostly all they can do, hence it's not fun, but idiocy. Here is the person who usually has a hard time getting a girlfriend or a boyfriend, so he may or may not have an unusual attraction to animals, which bystanders usually mistake for simple “animal love,” when really it’s a deeper desire to connect with living things, at times perhaps even sexually. Most of the time, the only other human beings this person can get along with are those who also happen to exist mostly in this class. This is the most hopeless class of human beings. Whenever a person in this class reaches the age of 30, if he cannot be put into either of the Serious Class or the Ideal Class (both soon to be discussed), he is placed under the Anamoloy Class (soon to be discussed) for exactly 360 days. After that, he is moved to the N/A Class (soon to be discussed.)

    Serious Class. This is a person who seems to take everything seriously. He may even "read into things." He likes details, he likes rationality, and wants everything to be as clear as it can be. He easily can come of as being unable to understand the more lighthearted nature of things, mainly, those who belong to the former class, the Idiots. Idiots and Serious ones don't get along very well as they tend to both be idiotic in their own ways, and the one thing they can't stand in each other is how idiot the other one is. The serious person does have the mentality and the brains to eventually perhaps loosen up and be able to smile at himself: to make it clear - he actually has substance that he can later poke fun at, whereas those in the former class have nothing to begin with.

    Ideal Class. This is the person who takes himself seriously enough so that he has something to make fun of. He's not simply a raving idiot who lacks and thus is an idiot who naturally makes fun of his lack of development in disguise as "poking fun." No. This one knows who he is, what he is, what he wants, and every now and again is able to poke fun at himself. This person is the ideal, and he, too, is widely misunderstood by the former 2 classes: those that belong to the Idiot class can't stand his elegance, his manners, and how he seems to be able to say anything he wants, when he wants, how he wants, and still have the light heart to smile. Those who belong in the Serious class can't understand how he can take some things lightly. Needless to say, person in this class doesn't care because there is a part of him that knows that they are idiots, but that idiots are necessary for life - they are modern day slaves of their own shallow mentality.

    Anomaly Class. A person in this class is yet to be determined. No real experience with this person is available to determine where this person belongs. Many things may happen to make a person who is otherwise known and established to be placed under this class: a fit of insanity, perhaps; or the slow degeneration into pure idiocy. No person exists in this class for their entire lifetime: if this person is 30 years old, or older, he automatically becomes a member of the following class:

    N/A Class. A person in this class is perhaps a retard, by nature or by circumstance, and is widely useless to society. Unless the person proves under strict conditions and severe examinations that he or she can be efficient, effective, and inventive, this person is "put to sleep" when he reaches the age of 35, as seen to be fit, with or without notification.

    Ranking System. Since these 5 classes are widely different and divided by very bold lines, it is ideal to have a Ranking System. Each person is assigned a 10-Digit Rank Identification Number (RIN). This number begins with one of 5 codes: either 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5. Code 1 indicates that the person is from the Idiot class. Code 2 indicates that the person is from the Serious class. Code 3, from the Ideal Class; Code 4, from the Anomaly Class; and Code 5, from the N/A Class. The meaning of the other numbers is highly classified at this time. For example, a person who belongs in N/A Class will have a number that might look like this: 5-0-36670098. Notice the bold 5: it indicates that the person is from the N/A Class, for easy identification. Everyone obtains this RIN in the form of ID and is required to wear it all times, otherwise fines and penalties are in order, including but not limited to being "put to sleep." The person is also encourage to communicate, befriend, and make relations only with people of similar Class, with the exception of those who belong to the Ideal or Serious Class - they are free to choose as they please - because they can be discreet and selective and so supervision is not necessary.

    Annuel Test. Every person is subjected to a 24-hour long test at the end of every year to see if he still belongs to his class or if reassignment is necessary. This said, officials, professionals, the police, military, FBI, and CIA have the power to question and arrest anyone who is under suspicion and subject him or her to the this test. Failure to comply results in the subject to be "put to sleep.”

    I hope this clears things up.
  13. TheCasualOblivion 10 year Veteran Newbie

    Somebody is putting WAY too much effort into this.
  14. DÛke Memento Mori

    About 7 minutes. I can type 130 words per minute, think at lightning speed, have the imagination, arrogance, pride, and prejudice to put many to shame. What can I say.
  15. TheCasualOblivion 10 year Veteran Newbie

    Another point made on DUke's favorite topic...

  16. Mooseman Isengar Tussle

    :rolleyes: :)
  17. DÛke Memento Mori

    Wake up and smell the coffee. The world revolves around me when there is no one else doing the talking.

    My world. In so many ways, my world.

    Don't know how God does it.
  18. Mooseman Isengar Tussle

    Blah, blah, blah......... :yawn:
  19. DÛke Memento Mori

    See above.

    Hence why the world revolves around me.

    Anyway, this is getting way to unproductive and worthless for my taste.

    I tried to give a good theory to clarify things and help us argue on more common grounds, it didn't work. Whatever.
  20. TheCasualOblivion 10 year Veteran Newbie

    Lets see...

    1. You put out your theory
    2. I pointed out that while your post was mostly quite good, your definition of casual was defined as a very small group and left a lot of casual people out, and was condescending to people who play less seriously than you.
    3. Mooseman reorganized your theory slightly to be more inclusive, and widen the spectrum of what is defined as "casual" to include a lot more people, which is I believe as it should be.
    4. You started whining

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