The question of questions: What is casual?

Discussion in 'General CPA Stuff' started by TheCasualOblivion, Feb 16, 2005.

  1. DÛke Memento Mori

    Exterior Magic doesn't mean he's not playing Magic. It means he's not playing the game of Magic. He's using the cards for other purposes than the game, though. That mostly emphasized by the fact that winning is only secondary to him, if it is anything at all.
    There is a very signifcant difference. Many of them actually, some more subtle than others. The most obvious one, being the easiest to understand as well, is that a person under the class of Tournament-Casual Magic has more ambition to win, most times even more so than the Tournament Magic player, for reasons clearly outlined. Where the Tournament player wants to win so badly, this one wants to win so badly for creative, at times egotistical and show-off reasons too. Where the Casual Magic player is less serious about this type of ambition, as he still views the game as just a game, he plays for fun, for the win, but it's not something he necessarily works at. But the Tournament-Casual player, you can say, starts where the average Casual Magic player leaves off: this one is more focused, a little more serious, and wants to win, too, at all costs. Not many, really, can match that in the Casual Magic class. The Casual Magic player is not the one who really can make headlines, so to speak. It's usually the Tournament-Casual player that makes all the waves: he's the one who spots that trick that no one saw and uses it in ways no one sees or knows; he's the unheard off daredevil of the game, the daring, bold, in your face, the "I win on my terms and you also lose on my terms" kinda player.

    And like I said, all in all, the differences between each class are very hard to spot, especially if you're not really thinking about it. I thought about it for an hour or so, so I really see whatever few lines that separate each class.
    It's funny that you say that because although I agree with you, I can certainly say that I have met few people who I would describe as Exterior-Casual players. They are almost exactly what I described under that section.

    It is indeed easier to view these as stages:

    1. Exterior Magic. The beginning of all Magic players.
    2. Either Casual Magic or Tournament Magic (in few exception cases, someone might even make the leap to Tournament Casual Magic right away.)
    3. Tournament Casual Magic. Not everyone goes through this step. This is the hardest class to master. It requires determination and fixated characteristics to handle with caution and care.
    4. Casual Exterior Magic This, like it was said, is more of an ideal than a reality, though I have seen it before. This is also a class that is not easy to attain. It requires a great level of understanding the game and experience within it; respect for it, the win, the rules, the values, the cards. It's easier to understand as the "afterhours" of a player who has experienced the competitive side of the game, whether in tournaments or otherwise.

    On the second hand, now that I rethink about it, I'm not a Tournament Casual Magic player like I said just earlier. I am a Casual Magic player: I'm not quite up there with the tournament players and certainly don't have the killer instinct of the Tournament Casual player. I'm more tamed, more busy with life than able to dedicate time and energy to be a Tournament Casual player.

    Congratulations, I have given myself the biggest headache since my last biggest headache. I apologize beforehand to anyone whose head becomes numb with pain after reading all this. If I hear the word "casual," "Magic," "exterior, and "tournament" within the next few hours I'll vomit my brains out...
  2. TheCasualOblivion 10 year Veteran Newbie

    What is kind of interesting is that there was a period of time that was largely before tournament magic, at least outside of major metropolitan centers.

    I started playing in 1994-1995, during 4th edition. I lived in the Allentown, Pa area, a minor metropolitan center. At the time the internet was moderately uncommon. Magic tournaments were scattered and infrequent, usually at least a 1-2 hour drive at least, and maybe one a month I heard of. Locally there might be 4 a year. This was also 2 years before we had a local store with tables you could play at. At the time though, magic seemed to be more popular and widely played than it is now. I certainly knew and met more players back then than I do now. It just wasn't all that organized.

    Back then we all played casual magic because none of us knew any better. Tournament magic was basically non-existent. The internet hadn't exploded yet, and even if you had it, there was no where near the resources there are now, and even less people knew to look for them. On top of that, tournaments were both infrequent and enough of a hassle to get to so as to not even exist to most of us. We played loose with the rules, since the rules weren't as well defined back then, and DCI Judges and the sort were something we only heard about.

    The best players I knew back then would be what DUke defined as casual-external. The good players were those, and the bad players were simply external. There just wasn't any other sort of player back then, at least not that I ever met.

    I didn't really start seeing what would today be called tournament play until when Weatherlight came out.
  3. Mikeymike Captain Hiatus

    That was pretty freaking cool.
  4. jorael Craptacular!

    I agree! Nice descriptions you wrote there DUKe! I guess I can agree with most what you wrote.

    I'm definately a Tournament-Casual Magic accordig to you descriptions. :cool:
  5. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Ugh Mikeymike. You didn't have to quote the whole thing :)

    But I agree - it should be an article.
  6. Killer Joe Active Member

    We're being "pigeon-holed" and the worst part about it is, I agree. The definitions are quite interesting and are accurate to some extent.

    Hi. My name is Mark (ALL: "Hi Mark")
    I'm a Tournament-Casual player.
    DÛke is my savior,......NOT! :eek:

    However, I would like to thank him for doing a great job on his post of definitions. :D
  7. Mikeymike Captain Hiatus

    Oh it must be done. Watch your tone, or I'll do it again! :eek:
  8. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Don't make me come over there!

  9. TheCasualOblivion 10 year Veteran Newbie

    Very well written and informative. I only have two real problems with it, which I've stated before. What he describes as a true casual player is a very small minority of players, and I don't think what he calls "external" players should be excluded from casual magic, or excluded from being referred to as playing the game. External players are playing the game, and it can't be called anything but magic.
  10. DÛke Memento Mori

    CasualOblivion. I didn't exclude anyone from anywhere. The term I use, which is "exterior" (not "external," but they have similar meaning, so it's fine), is just that, a term. We need to learn the subtle differences between the classes; see, I'm still referring to the Exterior class as a defined, existent class of Magic; I’m not excluding them. They are indeed playing the game, I'll even concede that to you now because you’ll never give up. But in this class winning is not at all focus, if it is regarded at all. We have to appreciate this difference between those who are in this class as opposed to those who are in the Casual Exterior class, who have altogether different reasons for not focusing on winning.

    Ok. Let me put it in another way: people of the Exterior class are playing the game, but they are not allowing the game to play itself as a game: with clear objectives and rules. "They play the game, the game doesn't play them." Does that make any sense to you whatsoever? If it does at all, good, don’t try to read into it because it will lose the meaning and I'll sound stupid.

    And of course the real casual player (Casual-Exterior) is a rare species. I don't understand what made you think that there are many of them. Well, on the second hand, I do understand - the term "casual player" is used so much that one naturally thinks that there are many who know what they're talking about in regards to it or are, at least, "casual players" themselves. But it's just an illusion. Think of, say, democracy as a concept. You know how people make a lot of ongoing noise about "democracy" - it's a holy word to a great majority, worldwide. But as a concept, it is nothing more than a word on paper: democracy has never existed in any human society and will never exist; it's an illusion, made into reality, if anything, by the overuse and misuse of the term. The term "casual player" has undergone the same misuse, in the process giving many illusions about the point where many people will happily tell you that "casual doesn't really have a definition, it just is." That only indicates that the term had lost its actual meaning and is now "up for grabs," so to speak.
  11. Killer Joe Active Member

    So, on paper, my name exists, but in reality it doesn't?

    Cool, my new non-existent name is "PhlArbLub"
  12. Mooseman Isengar Tussle

    I agree. Thanks Duke.

    But, as this is a discussion board, I have distilled the definitions down a bit to jive with my thoughts.
    If I hacked your definitions to pieces, that was not my intent and I'll apologize in advance.

    Tournament Magic.
    Tournament Magic doesn't care how it establishes the win. The array of "net decks" that exist, copied by many players, shows just that. Decks that win within a single turn, and usually very early in the game are favored here.
    Deck building is not by all means the essence of the game. He wants to establish his win at all costs. If there are means to do so within a turn, why bother do it in 2 turns? If he has to play a color that he doesn't like because it has all the cards he wants, he has a willingness to do that. If he has to copy a deck and maybe modify it, he is willing to do that.

    Exterior Magic.
    This class is the loosest and least concerned with winning. New rules maybe created to satisfy the group or the circumstance, while other rules can be ignored. Other things - making a statement with a deck, being humorous, enjoying the company, amongst other things, are the point of focus. More so than in any other class, in here the game can serve as the backdrop and context to a social event, or as a fundamental reason to create a friendly gathering of people; the game here is not the ends, but a means to a more sociable experience.
    Any deck built with very little or no regard to winning is placed in this class, however seriously it may take itself. Any deck that desires to make a statement with absurd combinations, or themes, in which winning is merely consequential, accidental, or if desired at all, is placed here.

    Tournament-Casual Magic.
    This class of players blurs lines between Tournament class and Casual class. He enjoys winning slightly more than the average person in the Casual class, and at times even more than those in the Tournament Magic class. He enjoys a killer deck, one which would use every means it has to crush the opposition.
    The "rogue" player can easily be placed here. He has a natural appetite for winning, more so than anyone else at times, because he feels that he spent much brain power, time, effort, and artistry, and so winning to him is good. Losing may be a little dramatic to him, but having that casual essence in him, combined with that of a tournment essence, he knows better than to dwell in his loss.
    This can be the most ingenious and revolutionary of players, with such raw awe-inspiring determination that rivals and exceeds that of the usual person of the Tournament Magic class. He can be the hardest working player, one who enjoys nearly every aspect of the game, and thus who enjoys its versatility.
    Finally, this player may or may not be interested in tournaments. The term "tournament" in the class-title only implies a type of aggressiveness and seriousness, and urge to win.

    Casual Magic.
    A casual Magic player can take the game just as seriously as anyone else.
    In this class resides the player who plays the game with the clear objective to win , as opposed to his fellow solely of the Exterior Magic class. As a game, it still has its objectives and rules, though it is not as necessary to enforce the tournament penalties and disrupt the game. He will not demand a game loss if his opponent draws an extra card accidentally, mistakes are pointed out and “fixed”. He is fully aware of the rules and so he doesn’t often make them himself.
    He can think through a strategy when needed, and have focus, but this is the player who will most likely say "it's just a game”. Winning is great, but it’s one of many things. Of all classes, he can be the least bitter one when he loses: “so you won”, Congratulations. They’ve won many times. The world didn’t change then, it’s not going to change now.

    This is the player that is commonly known as a “casual player.”
  13. DÛke Memento Mori

    You completely erased the difference between Casual Magic and Casual-Exterior Magic, which is where the classical "casual player" resides. The difference is needed: because I know many who can belong under Casual Magic but not Casual-Exterior, which you have just basically fused with Casual.
  14. Mooseman Isengar Tussle

    I don't see the need for Casual-Exterior, since all players will tend to move between classes or span more than one at any time.
    Just my humble opinion.
  15. TheCasualOblivion 10 year Veteran Newbie

    Thats definitely a more inclusive definition of what is a casual player. It includes what DUke called the Exterior-Casual player at the core, adds what a decent portion of what he called a Casual Player minus a few of the more serious ones who get added to Tournament-Casual instead, and finally adds a lot of what DUke calls exterior players to it by relaxing the definition of Exterior-Casual to not require the steep amount of playing ability that he defined it as having. Exterior magic gets a makeover to be defined as joke decks, weird chaos decks, and people who put zero(instead of simply less than serious players) effort into the game.

    I also agree with Mooseman's addition of the ability to be loose with the rules to the definition of casual magic. An example:

    I'm playing against either a fairly new player, or a bad player who has never bothered to learn the rules that well:

    1. I end my turn
    2. My opponent starts his turn by playing a land.
    3. Second, he untaps all his permanents.
    4. My opponent taps 4 of his 6 land to play Consume Spirit on my Kitsune Blademaster.
    5. He then draws his card for the turn, forgetting to deal with his Carnophage during his upkeep.

    These are some major screwups, but what does it accomplish to be a jerk about it? You tell him to lose a life from the Carnophage, explain the turn sequence(most likely not for the last time), and you go on with the game. I really don't know if I could call somebody a casual player if they couldn't let something like this slide, especially when this newbie or bad player has virtually no chance of beating you no matter how bad he mangles the rules.

    What you describe as a casual player barely exists. There might be a surprising number of people who fit that description on this board, but I'd be surprised if I've met more than 2 people in real life who that definition fits in 10 years of playing magic. What Mooseman described as Casual includes a large number of people that span what you defined as Casual, Casual-Exterior, and Exterior.

    People who cannot be included under your definition of Casual-Exterior, or Mooseman's definition of Casual can be easily defined as being Tournament-Casual players.
  16. DÛke Memento Mori

    Well, like all basic theories at any time, people will dirty-it up to fit their own views. That's fine with me. At this point I've said what I had to say; I've given serious thought and consideration and found that my classifications are fit enough, whether they put a smile on your face or not. People refuse to live up to many subtle facts of life, "casual player" is the least of my concern at this point.

    Go ahead and play with it and distort it as you please, I honestly could care less because I've given all I have to give in terms of thought and still no one will really think them through but only come out and dissect them, modify them, to put us back at the very beginning.

    The lack of attention paid to the sublte differences is obvious, and frankly, it makes me tired and also rather disappointed, but I'll get over it.
  17. TheCasualOblivion 10 year Veteran Newbie

    I have few problems with your definitions, and almost none with your descriptions of things. The only issue I have with your "article" is mathematics. What you describe as "casual" is very exclusive, and numbers wise excludes almost every magic player.
  18. Mooseman Isengar Tussle

    Well, thanks for your patience with us.
    I believe that I took something that was good, but a bit vague and fuzzy and focused it.
    But then again that's only my opinoin, so I wouldn't be amazed if others didn't agree.
    I too am rather disappointed.......
  19. DÛke Memento Mori

    So you guys are not casual players, and I'm not the only one who thinks that. Even I am not a casual player, by my own standards. Get over it and stop trying to force eveything just so you can feel good or prove a point. So there aren't as many casual players as you first suspected. So what? There aren't nearly enough good human beings, either. That doesn't mean we're going to redefine morality, standards, virtues, and everything just so that it can include more people. Bush is an idiot. I suppose I'm supposed to change the definition of genius to include him?
  20. Gizmo Composite: 1860

    Everytime I post what I think of Duke's arguments it gets deleted.

    So you'll have to fill in the blanks yourself.

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