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Homestar
Guest
hey all, i have been on other magic sites and heard ppl talkin about tempo and card advantage and other concepts/theorys. can someone explain those to me or tell me where to read about them?
Killer Joe
New member
http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/print.php?Article=7249
Here's one way to look at it; whenever you make a play or play a spell that causes you to set your opponent back a turn. That's way too simple of a statement but it kind of quickly goes over the point.
Read the article, it's good.
Here's one way to look at it; whenever you make a play or play a spell that causes you to set your opponent back a turn. That's way too simple of a statement but it kind of quickly goes over the point.
Read the article, it's good.
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Homestar
Guest
wow that article was sorta confusing. i read it a couple times and i get the main idea of it but i dont know how to identify a card that would give u good tempo or if there is even a card that does or if it just happens. now just to be sure i kno what im talkin about here, would an example of good tempo for you be if like ur opponent played a krosan cloudscraper and you use something very low-cost such as terror? is that tempo? anyway. then does anybody know what card advantage is?
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Reverend Love
Guest
Card Advantage = You have more cards, or the cards you do have will impact the game more
Tempo = Your fast or you're slowing your opponent down
Don't worry about any of this stuff right now. You should be focusing on honing your knowledge of the rules.
Tempo = Your fast or you're slowing your opponent down
Don't worry about any of this stuff right now. You should be focusing on honing your knowledge of the rules.
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Homestar
Guest
o.k ur right. but orgg told me i should learn them so i figure i should at least know what they are.
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Notepad
Guest
Yes, get into the rules more. Jumping into the theory articles would likely find you readinf the Rasko vs. Tait "Virtual Card Advantage" article, and your head would probably pop. Really. Mine did twice. Had to duct tape it back together. 
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Homestar
Guest
ouch , but n e way, what do u mean get into the rules a little more? what kind of rules?
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Notepad
Guest
The rules of the game. Read the "Saturday School" column at magicthegathering.com and "Ask the Judge" at starcitygames.com and you'll get a quick idea of just how complicated all the rules interactions can be.
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orgg
Guest
Homestar: Meet me on Magic Online at some point, and I'll give you the basics of Card Advantage and the very tip of the iceburg of Tempo.
Yea, they're not exactly critical to learn early, but they help make better strategic decisions during the game.
Everybody: I'm not talking the deep stuff here... basic understanding of using one card to remove multiple ones and the reason that chump blocking is not good early game is what I attempt to impart.
As for the 'tempo' stuff I teach on MOL, it's as simple as walking them through adding lands to the probability chart in the Stats page, and asking them to look at how often you get to a certain amount of lands by that turn, or four lands by turn four... I thought I had given the knowledge to you already Homestar. If I didn't, I apologise. DEFINATLY meet me on MOL.
Yea, they're not exactly critical to learn early, but they help make better strategic decisions during the game.
Everybody: I'm not talking the deep stuff here... basic understanding of using one card to remove multiple ones and the reason that chump blocking is not good early game is what I attempt to impart.
As for the 'tempo' stuff I teach on MOL, it's as simple as walking them through adding lands to the probability chart in the Stats page, and asking them to look at how often you get to a certain amount of lands by that turn, or four lands by turn four... I thought I had given the knowledge to you already Homestar. If I didn't, I apologise. DEFINATLY meet me on MOL.
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Homestar
Guest
nah man i dont remember any of that. o well, ill get on MOL more often now then.
Killer Joe
New member
You could start by learning "State-Based Effects" there's a post somewhere around here about it.
Spidey?
Spidey?
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mythosx
Guest
ok screw all that elitest mumbo jumbo stuff, I dont want anything vague i want some straight hard facts. I want numbers, i want values.
How much is a turn worth?
How much is a card worth?
How much is each individual colored mana worth?
How much is all this in terms of colorless mana?
How much is a 1/1 with out any abilities worth?
How much is a turn worth?
How much is a card worth?
How much is each individual colored mana worth?
How much is all this in terms of colorless mana?
How much is a 1/1 with out any abilities worth?
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DeathMaster666
Guest
Basics of CA:
A - CA for your cards.
-1 for a card that leaves your hand.
+1 for a card that enters your hand
-1 for a card that leaves play.
+1 for a card that enters play.
Meaning that, normally, playing a permanent costs you no CA. Losing a permanent costs you -1 CA. Playing an instant or sorcery is -1 CA in this part. Normally, however, your instants and sorceries provide you with some sort of CA from part B.
B - Your opponents' effects on you.
+1 for a card that leaves your opponents hand.
-1 for a card that enters your opponents hand.
+1 for a card that leaves play for your opponent.
-1 for a card that enters play for your opponent.
Meaning that destroying your opponent's permanents or their hand gains you CA, while letting them draw *cough*Arcane Denial*cough* loses you CA.
C - Special cases
Tokens - What Oscar Tan and Georgie Tait disagreed about. Rasko says that tokens should be counted as cards in terms of counting CA, while Tait says that you shouldn't. I say that you should, except in special cases like Decree of Justice (Decree for 4? I get +4 CA? Not really).
Note that this has NO effect whatsoever on Tempo, which is a less concrete concept. Maybe I'll try to explain that in more detail later.
A - CA for your cards.
-1 for a card that leaves your hand.
+1 for a card that enters your hand
-1 for a card that leaves play.
+1 for a card that enters play.
Meaning that, normally, playing a permanent costs you no CA. Losing a permanent costs you -1 CA. Playing an instant or sorcery is -1 CA in this part. Normally, however, your instants and sorceries provide you with some sort of CA from part B.
B - Your opponents' effects on you.
+1 for a card that leaves your opponents hand.
-1 for a card that enters your opponents hand.
+1 for a card that leaves play for your opponent.
-1 for a card that enters play for your opponent.
Meaning that destroying your opponent's permanents or their hand gains you CA, while letting them draw *cough*Arcane Denial*cough* loses you CA.
C - Special cases
Tokens - What Oscar Tan and Georgie Tait disagreed about. Rasko says that tokens should be counted as cards in terms of counting CA, while Tait says that you shouldn't. I say that you should, except in special cases like Decree of Justice (Decree for 4? I get +4 CA? Not really).
Note that this has NO effect whatsoever on Tempo, which is a less concrete concept. Maybe I'll try to explain that in more detail later.
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mythosx
Guest
this formula is nice and all, really but isnt it oversimplified? I mean a 1/1 soldier token is the same CA value as a 13/13 demon. kinda whack. in for that matter 2 soldiers is worth more CA than a 13/13 demon.
I think the State-Based Effects post is in the Rules section, not that far back, maybe a couple of months.
Homestar: The problem with discussing those terms is that there are so many conditional modifiers, like what format are you playing. A 1/1 with no abilities is not worth much in Constructed, but could be worth a bit more in Limited or Draft. And the answers to your questions are mostly subjective, because each person has a differing view on what somethign is worth (with the exception of the commonly accepted powerful cards, like Fact or Fiction). You really have to understand what the terms mean so you can come to your own conclusion about what something is "worth" rather than being told what it is worth.
Homestar: The problem with discussing those terms is that there are so many conditional modifiers, like what format are you playing. A 1/1 with no abilities is not worth much in Constructed, but could be worth a bit more in Limited or Draft. And the answers to your questions are mostly subjective, because each person has a differing view on what somethign is worth (with the exception of the commonly accepted powerful cards, like Fact or Fiction). You really have to understand what the terms mean so you can come to your own conclusion about what something is "worth" rather than being told what it is worth.
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Homestar
Guest
alright death i think i understand. thats pretty cool. is that all of it tho? and spidey i et what your sayin to. like someone else said (i dont remember who) ive been reading the saturday schools and every other article that i can at starcity and wizards and everything. they have been helping me
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mythosx
Guest
just keep playing. No one ever got good at anything without losing a few matches.
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Homestar
Guest
well when i say im gonna use my cleric deck, i don get to play at all.
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mythosx
Guest
how many people you playing against? when ever anyone plays an overpowered deck in my circle. It usually turns into 3 on 1 pronto. What are your friends running anyways? I like clerics too i have one but i know its a slow deck.