Team CMU

[Apollo]

Nobody is accusing CMU members. Nobody is mad at CMU members. You have nothing to defend.

The point at question is the fact that the tournament was delayed 45 minutes for one person. That means the other X number of people who are attending have to sit around for another 45 minutes and then end up going home later. What if someone ends up in the finals, but has to leave because they have another engagement and were forced to wait 45 minutes? That certainly isn't fair to them.

I understand the importance of field testing, and I'm sure the tournament was useful to you. But the store owner should be taking the other people into account, not just the one late person (CMU or otherwise). Waiting 15 minutes is understandable if they call ahead. But 45 minutes is way too long to wait for anybody.

I have played at this store , and know the owner that you are talking about. I have no idea what you mean by "evil store owner." He seems to always be fair to me, but then again I don't play there extremely often, so I really can't say that much

This is hearsay, but YJ has often talked about this owner giving advice to YJ's opponents and doing other such things. That's why YJ refers to him as The Evil Shop Guru.

I know that is a stretch to see, but when you look at the big picture, I imagine you will understand. So don't hate us if the store owner decided to wait...he would have for anyone if they expressed importance in the matter.

YJ said that he and others have been excluded before because they couldn't get there on time. So it would seem that he wouldn't have waited for just anyone.

Maybe I'm wrong here, but it seems like you're a little mad that players like him are coming to local tournaments and winning. I can see where you are coming from, but you cannont stop someone from playing in a tournament just because they are good.

Actually, YJ said that he was happy to have the CMUer there because he is trying to become better by facing better opponents. He also said that he is a big fan of CMU. So I think you're wayyyy off base there. It has nothing to do with being good. It seems to me that it has to do with 45 minutes. Plain and simple.

 

[Zadok001]

That summed up my points remarkably well - I hold absolutely no animosity for CMU members.

 

[AForsythe]

Hi people.

I think the main thing that set off all the bells and whistles was Yellowjacket's title of "Team CMU ". It seems to insinuate that Ron (that's our "anonymous" teammate, hee hee) got away with delaying the tournament BECAUSE he was a member of CMU, as if we have membership cards that allow us to get away with murder.

The fact is, Ron and The Evil Shop Guru were teammates a while back, and that's why I'm sure Ron was comfortable asking him to delay the tournament. Was it fair? Probably not. But I can't say for sure because I've never played at that store and don't know how he "normally" handles such requests.

Anyway, feel free to be upset about the situation and its participants, but rest assured that CMU does not make a habit of such behavior, and we don't think the world stops for us.

So don't be at Team CMU as a whole.

Laters,

 

[Spiderman]

This thread has brought in three new members, at least! Maybe YJ should be our new ambassador...

 

[Griffith_se]

Yeah, to bad they probably won't post anything after this thing blows over.

 

[real thing]

Hello CPA members. I would not have picked this to be the way that I introduced myself to you, but a CMUer told me that I should check this out. I am shocked by this post because the guy who wrote it is always very nice to me, at least to my face. I guess I now see his true feelings about me. I also see his disdain for Team CMU, store owners, store customers, and good magic players in general.

I am the new member of CMU, I played casually for many years. Since the Pro Tour developed, I hoped that I could be on it, and I wished that I could be on a pro level Magic team. Over the years of playing I have had many teammates, including Evil Store Owner and Evil Silent Guy. Evil Store Owner is, well, evil,... BUT, in over five years of seeing him judge, he has always been fair in his rulings. Evil Silent Guy is far from evil, anyone who knows him will tell you this.

I must get the story strait before I go any further, I called the shop at 5:40PM and asked Evil Silent Guy if he thought they would have enough players for a tournament, they often do not get enough. I then hurried to put my sliver deck together. When I was done puting the sleeves on, it was 6:05PM, so I called again to see if they started yet. He said no, I then asked him to wait because I literally live 1.5 miles from the shop. I got there at 6:10PM. When I registered for the tournament, I was #10. Two people came and signed up after me. Maybe the guy that wrote this only noticed me because I'm so "famous". The other two players got there at 6:15PM. Maybe Evil Silent Guy was very late getting the tournament going because he was interacting with his customers. I also was not thrilled that the tournament did not start until 6:45PM. No tournament should ever be held up for 45 minutes because of one person.

I take great offence that there was even a mention of Team CMU in this negative way. Before I was officially on the team, I pushed for the team to expand to include all good and dedicated players in Pittsburgh. I myself always hope to meet new players that are serious. Local tournaments are the way that I have met everyone that I have ever played with. That is how I met the CMUers. They have always had a good relationship with the surrounding area stores, such as giving advice on decks to area kids trying to get into the Super Series. I hope that I can offer the CMUers that are competing in Worlds some info that will help them. I will take my deck and test with them, and they will be thankful as always, just as they are with any player that tries to help. Many players in Pittsburgh are proud that a team from Pittsburgh does well. I always was before I was on the team.

Why else would I play there, you ask? I love to play, and I guess this guy also does not know that the two other shops that I also go to have not had a tournament in over a year. His ignorance amuses me. I also got a chance to play with two old fiends who were also in the tournament, and the $36 isn't too shabby either.(he,he)

Let me enlighten this guy about shop keeping, I worked at one of the shops for five years. He thinks that his buying of a couple of boxes is vital to the store. There is a low profit margin on boxes for what this store sells them at. They are better of with a kid who comes in once a week to spend his allowance on packs, since there is a much higher profit on them. The important thing to a store is customer volume. The smart thing to do is try their best to accommodate all of their customers.

I think that is all for now. Thank you to the people who know me, and know that I would not want to do anything hurt the good reputation of the team. I hope that others will understand me more now that you have both sides, not just the misinformation from Evil Ignorant Magic Player.

 

[EricBess]

Okay, for a minute, I'm going to assume that the three CMUers are legit and heard about this thread from someone in the first place and wanted to comment. I definitely wouldn't be the first time that a CPAer has used a fake identity.

Anyway, I don't think there is anyone here who sees "Ron" as doing anything wrong. He asked and the shop owner said yes. Having said that, does team CMU owe an apology? Well, not "owe", but the sentiments are appreciated. His asking inconvenienced a lot of people inadvertantly.

Should a shop owner delay a tournament? I think up to 15 minutes is reasonable. Anything over that? I don't have a problem as long as he makes sure that everyone affected by it is also okay with it. If even one person dissents, go ahead with original plans. It is safer to just not do it so that you don't have to worry about peer pressure that someone is going to resent later.

About delaying the finals - same policy - If everyone affected is on board. In that case, the only people involved are the two players and the person who needs to lock up (assuming it is now pushing closing time).

 

[real thing]

I just reread my post, sorry for the spelling and other errors. Next time I will check it before sending.

 

[Spiderman]

Well, it's certainly nice to hear the opposing view.

I also see his disdain for Team CMU, store owners, store customers, and good magic players in general.

This is the only statement I have a problem with, because I don't see that in his original post at all. What I do see is YJ expressing annoyance that the tourney seemingly started 45 minutes late because of you when at almost all other time, he and others were locked out when they were just a "couple of minutes late". One incident. I don't see any "disdain" for Team CMU in there; rather, I saw a complimentary line. Same with store owners, store customers, or "good magic players" in general (and where the heck did that come in?).

So the issue is: Allegedly, a tourney was held late for a Team CMUer when they're not held for others. Now you say you got there "on time" and it wasn't your fault it started 45 minutes late. So there's a discrepancy that needs more info.

 

[rkoelsch]

I feel there has probably been a misunderstanding here. It started with Yellowjacket blowing off a little steam because he was upset. If you read his posts he tends to dramatize things which makes his posts excellent reading. But someone who comes in and is not familiar with his style of writing could take offense. That is what I think happened here. I know that Yellowjacket has done excellent things in mentoring young players and was trying to break the casual player stereotype and also be a competative player. He has done good things for Magic. Team CMU has done good things for Magic. And hopefully Team CMU will see that the CPA accepts Pro players for the way they are and hopes that the Pro players will find the FUN that the CPA is all about.

 

[Zadok001]

Woah, Real Thing! Before we start getting mad at each other, let's try to clear this thing up.

AFAICT, there are two directly contradictory statements being made here. Real Thing says he showed at 6:10, a more than acceptable time frame. Yellowjacket says otherwise. Who's right?

Who cares? Doesn't matter - The result is the same either way.

Real Thing, no one is trying to attack CMU here. The fact is, the tourney started 45 minutes late, which is a pain for all involved. Regardless of contradictory statements, I think the culprit of the late start remains - The TO. Right?

 

[Apollo]

Zadok is exactly right. Real Thing, please calm down. YJ never insulted you or Team CMU. The title of the post may not have been the best, but if you read it he clearly doesn't hold you responsible. He even complements Team CMU, and talks about how proud of you he is.

Now, another question has arisen. You say you got their 10 minutes late; YJ says 45. Who knows who is correct? Perhaps the real number is somewhere in between. Or perhaps you got their 10 minutes late, but deck registration and making the pairings caused the tournament to be delayed much longer. Or perhaps YJ just didn't see you come in, and assumed that the 45 minute wait was because the owner was waiting for you. I couldn't say.

The issue at question here, though, had nothing against you personally. It was just about the owner delaying the tournament for a "star". The question would be the same were it you or any other player on a major team.

 

[Lotus Mox]

YJ can certainly make really evil thread titles, does anyone remember the

Good Bye

thread?

Even I got a heart attack when I first saw this title

back to topic:

I don't know whether the CMU caused the delay or not, but 45 min are a bit much.
YJ was pretty pissed in his 1st post, and (falsely???) assumed the CMU-Member caused it, so I will forgive him his excessive ranting against the CMU

BTW, I always wanted to know what does CMU stand for?

 

[real thing]

This reply is to Spiderman on how he did not see the disdain in YJ's comments toward Team CMU, store owners, customers, and good players. It is also to any other that it was unclear to.

I did not just read his initial post, I looked at his post and comments as a whole. I think most people sensed the same tone that I did.

Disdain for CMU? In his original post he addressed me as the new CMU team member. He did not have to bring up that because it was irrelevant to his story. Maybe this was to dramatize his post for the readers, but to attach the team name to his rant, shows anger toward this team. He also said that the "Carte Blance" treatment makes him take a fit. This shows jealousy of perceived special treatment.
Many bad players think that good players get this special treatment in a variety of ways rather than give any credit to the individual player, or in this case, team.

Disdain for store owners? This was shown by him acting as though Evil Shop Guru and Silent Evil Guy, who own the shop, did something wrong by trying to accomodate their customers and keep their business going. There were as many people there not in the tournament as there were in it. Maybe that is why he didn't see me there at 6:10PM. They would have held the tournament up for 15 minute for anyone, and they have in the past. Their is always that one guy who will never be pleased no matter what the shop owner does.

Disdain for store customers? He acted as though he were so important because he buys a box every few months. As I said, this is not anything special for a store, but he does perceive himself as the store savior, better than any other customer. Don't make him flex that consumer muscle. He also assumed that I don't buy anything from that store because he never saw me. You know what happens when you ASS-U-ME. This showed that if he doesn't see you spend more than him, he would think you are not a good customer.

Disdain for good players? Myself, Team CMU, and Evil Shop Guru are all mentioned negatively by YJ. What do we have in common? You guessed it, we are all good players. This is very common for non-competative players to have a deep hate towards good players who have become that way through hard work. It is not easy to stay sharp without alot of practice. Don't playa hate.

Also, I am sure that he exaggerates about saving all the young magic players from the evil ones. In my five years working at a card store I taught about 100 kids and adults how to play Magic and performed many good deeds too. I have also stepped in when someone is getting ripped off, but I just didn't go to a forum and brag about it, I did it because it was the right thing to do. Do not make a generalization that all good players are bad people, and do not think that honest trading makes someone a good person.

I am still can't believe that he is so angry inside, he seems like a nice guy on the outside.

sorry no time to spell check

 

[Gizmo]

I`m afraid I have to say that right now the CMU guys are carrying the argument - from my hopefully neutral stance.
I know YJ won`t like that, but at the moment they are bringing rational discussion, but YJ`s post was based on unsupported personal statements.

 

[theorgg]

I'd like to clear up a couple of things, or at least try to:

First of all, the time discrepancy between your account, RealThing, and YJ's account is very significant. To be objective- Fifteen or even twenty minutes delay(your account) is acceptable. Fourty-Five minutes is in NO WAY an acceptable time, assuming that there were people that had a set time to leave and thus would be stripped from the tournament's later rounds via the time incrementation of the start time. This, until you showed up and rectifide the problem, was the real issue at the heart of the thread.

Secondly, complaining of the actions tward "more famous" people should not reflect on the whole of the team-- I think no less of Sol Malka even though his teammate David Leader attempted to cheat me on the timing of the removal of a creature enchantment when a creatureis sacrificed. I actually have gotten over the frustration and feeling of being disgraced by his action and have learned to respect him as a player if not as an opponant. If you would have asked me my opinion on him a month after the event? I'd call him a cheatin' SOB. Two months? somthing similar. In five months, this event will have cooled to a level of levity. This thread was birthed by an immediate anger. Every one of us has at some point become angry, and a post of this nature can help assuage the anger of the happening that upsets us. It's a human responce.

Thirdly, the reasons the label Evil Shop Guru have been adiquatly presented in several past threads-- Giving out the contens of YJ's hand during tournament matches, telling his opponant the best plays to make against him, et cetera. It seems that such behaviour has been stopped as YJ alluded to. Medication you dispence can make you recognise other's viewpoints.

Fourthly, well, I welcome all of ya'll to the CPA, and thank Mr. Rizzo for telling ya'll(well, assumably) about the post. I hope ya'll stick around like Mr. Omerod and Mr. Sutcliff.

Another thing, out of curiosity. How is a local shop the metagame for an invitation-only event that encourages people to buck trends when metagaming? It reminds me of a time when a local Type ][][ tournament (in missississippi) had fifteen Turbostasis decks and a five color seventy card deck. I think fifteen people were expecting somthing a little darker...

But anyway, so it goes.

Sic Semper,

-The Orgg

 

[Istanbul]

Why are we even still talking about this?
It's over. The issue has been addressed.
Magic is a game. Get on with your lives.

 

[Apollo]

Disdain for CMU? In his original post he addressed me as the new CMU team member. He did not have to bring up that because it was irrelevant to his story. Maybe this was to dramatize his post for the readers, but to attach the team name to his rant, shows anger toward this team. He also said that the "Carte Blance" treatment makes him take a fit. This shows jealousy of perceived special treatment.
Many bad players think that good players get this special treatment in a variety of ways rather than give any credit to the individual player, or in this case, team.

Actually, the team was important. The issue was the store owner giving special treatment (delaying the event) for a "star". If he didn't say you were a CMU member, the reader would have had no idea what he was talking about. Obviously, the team was essential to the story.

Disdain for store owners? This was shown by him acting as though Evil Shop Guru and Silent Evil Guy, who own the shop, did something wrong by trying to accomodate their customers and keep their business going. There were as many people there not in the tournament as there were in it.

By accomodating you, they were inconviencing the people that had shown up on time for the event. Those players that get there at the actual starting time should be accommodated first. So, yes, they did do something wrong because they were not accommodating their customers.

As for disdain because of their names, it has repeatedly been documented that TESG has cheated and given info to YJ's opponents.

They would have held the tournament up for 15 minute for anyone, and they have in the past.

YJ has said that, in the past, he has been turned away for being a few minutes late. Perhaps you aren't aware of these occurences; regardless, you shouldn't ASSUME that YJ has no basis for these remarks. Because we all know what happens when you ASS-U-ME...

Disdain for store customers? He acted as though he were so important because he buys a box every few months. As I said, this is not anything special for a store, but he does perceive himself as the store savior, better than any other customer... This showed that if he doesn't see you spend more than him, he would think you are not a good customer.

Hello? YJ never brought that up how much he spends until EricBess specifically asked him about it. And he never mentioned "flexing his consumer muscle" until, again, EricBess mentioned it. At this point, you are obviously just looking for anything you can attack about him.

Disdain for good players? Myself, Team CMU, and Evil Shop Guru are all mentioned negatively by YJ. What do we have in common? You guessed it, we are all good players.

Aargh! You're doing it again! He never mentioned you negatively. The only person he mentioned negatively was Evil Shop Guru, and that, again, he has had many good reasons for.

I think most people sensed the same tone that I did.

Nope. If you look at the replies, you and CMU are the only people that think he insulted you. Everybody else realized the truth, which is that he complemented you, said he liked you, said he was proud of you, and actually said that he didn't mean anything negative to you.

I am still can't believe that he is so angry inside, he seems like a nice guy on the outside.

You are now the one making personal attacks. Neither YJ nor anybody else here has a negative opinion of CMU. When you come in and start attacking people when you are clearly uninformed and have no reason to be mad at them (which is obvious to everyone else), you give us a negative opinion of CMU.

You are reading way too much into this.

Btw, Gizmo:

I`m afraid I have to say that right now the CMU guys are carrying the argument - from my hopefully neutral stance.

But there should be no argument. YJ never insulted them, and they have nothing to be mad about. CMU, and Real Thing in particular, have just sorta come in and made an issue where there is none.

...but YJ`s post was based on unsupported personal statements.

Look at that comment about "he is so angry inside...". You don't think that is an "unsupported personal opinion"?

 

[Zadok001]

The simple fact is at this point:

No one has insulted CMU. No one has meant to insult CMU. CMU is good. We LIKE CMU. CMU is cool with us. Evil Shop Guru has been insulted, and if he would like to step out of the shadows and defend himself, I'm sure he and Yellowjacket could have a spirited discussion. In the meanwhile, CMU can stop defending themselves, as they aren't under attack here.

Real Thing: Please, re-read the messages you're responding to with an eye for neutrality. We really aren't trying to beat you about the head and shoulders. No need to defend against an attack that doesn't exist.

Peace, guys.

 

[Gizmo]

I think they are defending 'Evil Shop Guru'tm as much as they defending CMU. I also think 45 minutes is not necessarily FAR too long wait, especially if the TO feels he can make that time up with faster turnarounds on the rounds. I`ve been at many tournaments, much larger than just 18 players, that have kicked off 45 minutes or more late (although usually only because WotC are running them).


And I think YJ was very clearly intimating that he felt that the CMUer was colluding with the TO in order to guarantee winning the tournament.

"None of us are a threat to him and it's been known that at the old store, when it was sanctioned, that this guy always got paired up against the "sure bets" (however, not me, I've beaten this guy a couple of times, quite to his dismay )."

In which case both the CMUer and the TO have a position to defend.