Team CMU

Discussion in 'General CPA Stuff' started by Killer Joe, Jun 22, 2001.

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  1. Killer Joe Active Member

    Last night, a new member of Team CMU came to the shop last night to try out his new version of Counter-Sliver (It was an extended tourney). I didn't play against him and he was very tight-lipped about his deck. He ended up by winning the $36 dollar pot but that's not the whole story:
    Our shop lost it's Premier Store status (long story) so none of our tourney's are sanctioned umtil they get it renewed. So, I guess we're a kind of a "testing ground" for those who want to try out new decks and not have to worry about DCI ratings. But that's still not the whole story.
    Our tourny's start at 6 p.m. and myself and others have been left out due to being a few min. late (fair enough, there are hours to keep at the store, it's a business thing). But yesterday, at about 5:45, this unmentioned Team CMU'er called in and had the store owner wait until he arrived to start the tournament. 6:45 p.m., unsaid Team CMU'er arrives and then we're allowed to play, OY!
    Carte Blance? You're damn right it was! I am a huge fan of Team CMU and all things Pittsburgh, but this "star status" thing has got me fit to be tied!
    None of us are a threat to him and it's been known that at the old store, when it was sanctioned, that this guy always got paired up against the "sure bets" (however, not me, I've beaten this guy a couple of times, quite to his dismay :)).
    Am I out of line or what, here?
  2. Thallid Ice Cream Man 21sT CeNTuRy sChIZoId MaN

    Might this have anything to do with why the store lost its premier store status?

    That's just stupid. Did you point out the obvious discrepancy to the store owner? (or is he/she the EVIL SHOP GURU that you (or maybe someone else, my memory's sketchy) talked about in the past?)
  3. Killer Joe Active Member

    What a memory!
    Yes, this was that Evil Shop Guru I used to talk about who now owns the store with his side kick: Silent Evil Guy.
    I didn't mention it because I have been known to be a paininthebutt at the shop due to standing up for the unknowing and innocent. But, in my sarcastic outbursts thruought the night, I think they all got the point :).
    Store status: No, when they bought the old shop the old owner didn't renew his Premier status and these new guys are lazy and slow at getting it renewed.
  4. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    I don't think you're out of line; it sounds very unfair and smacks of favoritism.

    Unfortunately, aside from buying them out and replacing them with your own staff to run things the way they should be run, what can you do? It sounds like you complain but they don't do anything. It's too bad this store is the only one you can go to. :(
  5. Gizmo Composite: 1860

    I`m not sure of the motives of coming down to the tournament in a non-sanctioned area and playing against players who cant realistically compete with you. You want to playtest against the strongest decks and the strongest players because you can be fairly sure that Jon Finkel won`t be playing with a bad deck and playing it poorly.

    THe closest analogy for me would be whenever I went to the local unsanctioned shop tourneys near me, where by contrast I would be 1) the first person there so I can ply and trade before we start, 2) the last person to leave because I wan to play and trade afterwards, 3) only take friendly matches agaisnt the better players and decks, espeially the ones whch beat me because I need to know how to turn your matchup around.

    I`d say that in this case you are misunderstanding something that went on because this CMUers behavious is an anathema to anything I would expect a player to do. Unless he really wanted $36.
  6. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Well, it was non-sanctioned so you don't lose points, right? So maybe he just wanted a tourney setting to test his deck with no risk with different people.

    Although the skill question is there; maybe the shop has a reputation for good players anyways?
  7. EricBess Active Member

    Regardless of why he wanted to play there, what is the store's policy about starting the tournament. If average Joe, for example, had called and said he was on his way, would they have waited 45 minutes for him?

    Plus, how much does this player contribute to the store? At the store where I play and judge, they would probably be willing (although reluctant) to start a tournament an hour late for me if I told them I really wanted to play and would be late. For most people, they would probably only wait a half-hour at most, but I do quite a bit of business at the store, so there is a loyalty issue. If this guy never buys anything there, but just wanted the $36 bucks, they shouldn't have waited that long unless they would do that for anyone.

    Keep in mind that ultimately, the players have control (as a group primarily, but ever player helps). If you are truly upset about the tournament starting so late, see how many people there you can convince that it's not worth it. I bet you will find that most people don't care, but it's worth a shot. You might find other people just as put off. If you have another nearby store that you can frequent, that helps. If they know they are losing business, they might start paying attention more.
  8. Ura Feline Lord of the Pit

    When I had my shop and ran the tournaments I had and told every person who signed up that we would start at 10am on the nose and to be there by that time. I'd normally wait till 10:15 though for straglers just in case they were a little behind and it gave people more time to trade before dispersal.
    But 45 minutes is way to much even by the most lax of standards. Was he blowing sunshine where it didn't belong or something? I would have waited 20 minutes tops.
  9. Zadok001 CPA Founder, Greater Good

    Well, I'd be fairly P.O.ed, myself. :-\ I think you're in the right to be pissed, and certainly complain to the TO. Star status and team have NOTHING to do with your right to play the frickin' game.

    But I like Team CMU as a whole, I'm afraid. And I wouldn't blame the player, since he merely made the request - The store owner was the one who allowed it. He should have set the line.
  10. Killer Joe Active Member

    Star status: I once heard this guy say that he never needs to buy products since he wins a lot. And since I don't see him at the shop on a regular basis, I'm assuming he's not contributing to the store's business very much, I, however, buy 2 boxes every big expansion and 1 each of the other 2 small expansions and mostly all of the preconstucted decks, at this store.

    The store reputation: I would say we are made up of mostly casual players, and all of us, at one time or another, have had our day in the sun, but I wouldn't think comming to our place to test "new decks" <on a pro-tour level>, would be a good place to go. Team CMU meets every Tuesday, so that would be the place to test a new deck. Let me add that, this guy lives in a neighboring community that HAS a Premier Shop that has DCI sanctioned tourney's on Mondays.

    Bottomline: I am striving to hone my skills, so I'm not complaing about someone with pro-tour status comming around (heck, like I 've said, I've actually beaten this guy before), but I will recant my negative comments (if I really made any) about this person, personally. But, the next time I might be late getting to a tourny at our shop, I'm going to call and see what happens (fair enough, eh?).
  11. EricBess Active Member

    I agree with Zadok. It is the store policy in question, not the player himself. I'm sure that if they player told the store he would be there in 5 minutes and it took him 45, he would understand if the tourney had already started. If he said he was going to be 45 minutes, it would have been the correct thing for the TO to ask the rest of the players before making the promise, but the end result is that it was the store owner making the decision.

    Wow, YJ, you do a decent amount of business there. I'm guessing you have an influence on some of the other players that play there too. Trouble maker or not, you would have to be a pretty obnoxious guy for the store owner not to appreciate your business. I'm guessing you have more leverage than you might think. Of course, this assumes that there is another nearby option :(
  12. Gizmo Composite: 1860

    I think it`s a positive thing that a store owner is willing to leave the registration open to help people come in who now they will be late.
    1) 45 minutes is a long time. 15 minutes and I`d be disappointed if they DIDN`T hold reg open, 45 minutes seems a long time, but then if the store owner doesn`t feel there will be a problem overruning by 45 minutes, or that he can cut that back by faster turnarounds between rounds then I guess it`s ok.
    2) I`d expect him to do similar if somebody else phoned in ehead and said 'hold the reg for me'. the owner has to draw a line or he`d find himself holding it back every week, but as a semi-regular occurence it`s not putting anybody out particularly and is in fact showing goodwill.

    I`ve no idea if this is an accurate version to apply to this situation - but it IS another way of looking at it. Over here in the UK it`s common practice for TOs to provide their mobile phone numbers so people who are stuck in traffic etc can call in and let them know to hold registration for ten minutes.
  13. Killer Joe Active Member

    Well, I suppose I should talk to both of the owners and ask for an established "rule of thumb" for starting times and how late tourney's could or should be started. That would the fair thing to do instead of rambling rants or outbursts.
    As far as being a patron, I totally support local business' (always have, always will) AND, I tend to give people second, third even fourth chances (a teacher thing, I guess :)). I never want to use my consumer power to influence policy's at the store but in this case, maybe I should.
    I will say this for The Evil Shop Guru, he has stopped coaching all of my opponents (after one day I told his opponent during a friendly match that the TESG had counters in his hand - TESG lost that game :)).

    HEY GIZMO: Any idea what this CMU'er was playing in his Counter-Sliver deck, I definitly saw Eladamri's Call.
  14. Zadok001 CPA Founder, Greater Good

    I saw some CSliver decklists featuring the Call over on MtGnews, but they weren't up to par... Maybe he's running some toolbox critters like Uktabi as well as normal Slivers?
  15. patnik New Member

    I have played at this store , and know the owner that you are talking about. I have no idea what you mean by "evil store owner." He seems to always be fair to me, but then again I don't play there extremely often, so I really can't say that much.

    I can however say that your comments about that CMUer seem a bit out of line to me. First off I have no idea how one could fix pairings. They are swiss, which most of you know means that you play against those with the same record as you. This means that the best two players will always meet at one time or another. I can assure you that they are random, hosever, as I have watched the owner roll a die every time I have been around to watch him do pairings. Also I know the player that you are talking about, and have played against him every time that we have both been at the store. I would not consider myself an easy match, but maybe you would.

    Regarding the coming late thing, I have been late before, and called. The owner held the tournament for me and my friends. Now I am a member of team CMU myself, but this was well before I was a member, or anyone knew who I was, and most players considered me a "scrub". I'm sure if you call that you're gonna be late for any event that's not an 8 man draft, he'll do the same for you.

    Maybe I'm wrong here, but it seems like you're a little mad that players like him are coming to local tournaments and winning. I can see where you are coming from, but you cannont stop someone from playing in a tournament just because they are good.

    Mike Patnik

    Team CMU
  16. patnik New Member

    After reviewing my post, I realized that it seems like I am criticizing YellowJacket. This was not my intent at all. I merely wanted to show my opinion on the events. I apologise if that's how it sounds. He has every right to post his opinions, I just wanted to say that they are his OPINIONS, which means that they are not nessecarially right.
  17. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    How often have you been coming to the store for events? And how often has YJ?
  18. Zadok001 CPA Founder, Greater Good

    While the idea of having an outsider come in and win could affect this situation, the idea remains that 45 minutes is a LONG time. That's nearly a round. That means people are gonna be 45 late getting home. That's a Bad Thing. Ten minutes, I can understand. Pushing it at 20, considering this is FNM, and not meant to be exceedingly competative. 45? Excessive.

    Regardless of team affiliation (heck, regardless of the player), the TO probably should have set a cut-off time and started the tourney. Waiting 45 minutes for one player incoviences the other 20-some-odd. The needs of the many...
  19. NateHeiss New Member

    Hello all,

    I personally know the Team CMUer and the Store owner in question. It is my feeling that he would have waited for anyone that called him up and expressed a dire need to play in that tournament. While it may not have seemed like a big deal, that $36 tournament is vital to the fabric of our testing.

    CMU believes in feild testing. It adds that crucial element of realism to our testing that lets CMU come up with better answers to the Metagame. You guys ARE the metagame, no matter how casual you feel. We like to keep our doors open to the Magic community and constantly invante anyone to join us in our testing sessions. We use an Honor system that usually lets the Pittsburgh locals in on our tech, but they keep it out of the hands of the opposition (if it is really juicy, anyway).

    That countersliver deck is just another part of our testing scheme, regardless of if it is a play deck or a test deck. That tournament could very well be vital to CMU's performance at Worlds.

    I know that is a stretch to see, but when you look at the big picture, I imagine you will understand. So don't hate us if the store owner decided to wait...he would have for anyone if they expressed importance in the matter.

    I understand you are upset. CMU sent around an email on our list and we concluded that we are really sorry for what happened, even though it was just one of our members.

    Perhaps I will show up at the store one day...I have been meaning to get into one of those tourneys.

    -Nate Heiss
    Team CMU
  20. Zadok001 CPA Founder, Greater Good

    While I can understand the importance of RL testing, the fact remains that delaying a tourney 45 minutes does Bad Things(tm) to a large number of people. Yes, it could hurt the testing, which is bad. But I would be willing to bet the number of people who WEREN'T affected by CMU testing at that tourney is greater than the number of people on CMU that needed the tourney delayed. The needs of the many...

    Question to the CMUers that seem to have suddenly appeared from the mists (not that I'm complaining): What about Apprentice?
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