Ravnica Duals

Discussion in 'General CPA Stuff' started by Chaos Turtle, Aug 18, 2005.

  1. Chaos Turtle Demiurgic CPA Member, Admin Assistant

  2. Nightstalkers Creature — Nightstalker

    Yeah it's okay... it's really helpful when fielding the crap that they've got... stupid working together stuff..



    but isn't this old news?
  3. Gizmo Composite: 1860

    Definately on a par with painlands.
  4. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Seems okay.
  5. Ransac CPA Trash Man

    Now, does the fact that the mana ability is in parenthesis mean that if you don't pay the life it doesn't do anything?


    Ransac, cpa trash man
  6. Nightstalkers Creature — Nightstalker

    Incorrect Ransac, it's a reminder text telling you that it can produce either a green mana or a white mana because it is both a forest and a plains and not both of the mana at the same time.

    The pain part of the "dual land" is there to simulate the old invasion double lands in the respect that it comes into play tapped (this is a balancing thing) but to make it worthwhile a rare, they added the fact that you can pain yourself 2 life to have it's output instantly as well as being effected by cards that search specifically for plains and forest cards.



    Wasn't this in the article? I thought it was....
  7. Chaos Turtle Demiurgic CPA Member, Admin Assistant

    Unlike painlands, this can be fetched by cards that look for basic land types. I'd put these somewhere between painlands and true duals.

    Notice how the red/green one will pump a Kird Ape, just reprinted in 9th edition? A 2/3 on turn one is worth a couple of damage I think.
  8. Istanbul Sucker MCs call me sire.

    Gonna be interesting times on MOL pretty soon.

    "Oh, we can reprint Kird Ape and Hypnotic Specter in 9th because the cards that made them so crazy are long gone."
    "...but we're releasing Mirage - and Dark Ritual - on MTGO."
    "...and putting a new Taiga (functionally speaking) out in Ravnica."
    "I bet you thought we weren't going to make these cards stupid anymore, huh? HA!"
  9. jorael Craptacular!

    These will be hot!
  10. orgg Administrator

    Dumbfounding.

    These should be in the core set forevermore. They've made the perfect dual land replacement.
  11. krichaiushii New Member

    I haven't seen the article Nightstalkers alludes to, so is it known if opposite colors will be represented with these lands, or just allied colors?

    Regardless, these are nice lands, indeed.
  12. Gizmo Composite: 1860

    They aren't strictly superior to painlands because there are points where you will be paying life to untap these when you would be taking colorless from a painland you just played.

    They're definately exciting, but there's still a role for painlands. Have to see how many cards let you abuse the basic landtype nature of these cards - there's the new Portal version of Tithe in 9th Ed for instance, Gift Of Estates...

    W1: Search your library for 3 splash colours and put them into your hand.

    Powerful magics. I'd get 4 Gift Of Estates ASAP if I were you, because they're going to become VERY hot.
  13. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Wow.

    While painlands aren't suddenly useless or anything, I think they'll be driven out of decks in favor of these guys. With the old dual lands, Onslaught fetchlands, and now these, decks won't be needing many painlands, if any.
  14. Nightstalkers Creature — Nightstalker

    But still, there will be the typical "oldskool" players who will just suck it up and keep with the pain.

    No pain no gain, remember?
  15. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    I used to be one of those players, and I don't think there are all that many of them. Casual players will continue to use painlands when they can't get their hands on these cards, but for tournament players or casual players with deep pockets, these things are going to be preferred. They can be grabbed by fetchlands, they give the same bonuses as painlands, they do less damage over time, and they come with the option of acting like the Invasion CIP tapped lands (Elfhame Palace, etc.) rather than costing any life at all (which will be used in some instances).

    In most decks, I'd easily use these over the old Ice Age painlands. And they're certainly superior to the Invasion lands as well. The Onslaught fetchlands and, of course, the original dual lands are still better. But it's still somewhat surprising to see something this powerful...
  16. orgg Administrator

    Y'know, these things are AMAZING with the Fetchlands.
  17. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Some control decks will probably be able to fetch them at the end of an opponent's turn, and not lose any life at all.
  18. Hetemti The Wide-Awake Nightmare

    Painlands still have place.

    Either way, CiPT or -2HP, you're still going to be pummeled against bounce.
    • CiPT, no mana and it comes back to hand.
    • -2HP, you use it once and it comes back to hand.

    Sure, heavy bounce isn't all that common, and bouncing lands isn't always the best idea, but the consideration remains. This is also a consideration against LD, since it's kinda silly to take two points to use a land that only lives to tap once.

    That isn't to say I won't want a fistful of these cats, but their beauty lies in searchability (Land Grant and Tithe crack sly smiles), not the alternative pain condition. If you tap a painland three times for colored, you probably need more help than a less-taxing multiland.
  19. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    I use my fetchland and take one for using it, then two from Ankh of Mishra. I fetch a Ravnica dual and pay two for it to come into play untapped. You Stone Rain it and I take two more from Ankh of Mishra. I just took seven mana for a land that I only used once.

    Despite that, I'd use these things over painlands in virtually any deck. Of course, I'd definitely use the old dual lands over the Ravnica ones in any deck. So for tuned tournament decks in any non-rotating format, painlands probably won't be seeing much use. Most decks don't have room for duals, fectchlands, Ravnica duals, AND painlands.

    In casual play, since painlands are bound to cost less money than any of the above, they'll still see regular use.
  20. orgg Administrator

    So what to call 'em?

    I hear 'shocklands' getting some support.

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