OnBC: Zombies

Discussion in 'Casual Decks/Variants/Etc' started by Rakamir, May 21, 2003.

  1. Rakamir New Member

    I hear the Pros are testing this as "Zombies." If they are, they are giving themselves false confidence to beat it, as this deck is far from optimal.

    4 Carrion Feeder <== OK, if you want to, but the card can't block a Sledder, a Goon, or anything else. I use 2, main.
    0 Festering Goblin <== no, run 4
    4 Skinthinner <=== good
    3 Soulless One <=== great card, I run 2, with 2 more in board
    3 Undead Warchief <=== no, play 4. Takes a shock or rift? Fine. Something else won't then, and the deck is insane if this sticks. Unholy Strength for all your men PLUS 1 less to cast all your critters (save Wretch and the 1 drops) = the nuts.
    4 Withered Wretch <=== Yup. Sometimes a Grizzly Bear, sometimes beyond incredible.
    4 Wretched Anurid <=== Nope. Tried it. Hated it. The deck has enough speed it doesn't need it. Too many critters out there, too. Better in Type 2.
    4 Zombie Cutthroat <== No way. Bad in block. This ain't Draft.
    3 Call to the Grave <=== uh, uh. No way.
    3 Smother <== I board mine. I can beat Gobbos first game without them.
    22 Swamp <== OK
    2 Unholy Grotto <=== I play 3, but i'm paranoid
    0 Barren Moor <== Huh, why not? The Black Urza's Bauble. Play 4.
    0 Twisted Experiment <=== a mistake not to play these. I play 3.
    0 Gempalm Polluter <=== A mistake not to play these, also. I run 4. Damage, hardcast with undead 'chiefs even, Cycled, too many good uses not to play this.
    0 Undead Gladiator <== incredible card ... I run 2.

    At least he has Cover of Darkness in the Board. I run 2 main, cuz Beasts hates it, and it is Beasts, not Gobbos, that is THE deck to beat, currently.

    his board:
    1 Call to the Grave
    4 Cover of Darkness
    4 Infest
    1 Smother
    1 Soulless One
    4 Stabilizer <== No. Hate it. Makes us play 11 card sideboards. I can beat Slide without it. Would kick my a**, tho. No wait, it doesn't. I can use my cyclers for other stuff.
    0 Patriarch's Bidding <=== What I play ve Slide and Control White. A mistake not to have these.

    He doen't run Graveborn Muse in an AGRRO metagame, which is good. Muse is much better in Controllish Type Two.

    Just my two cents,
    Rakamir
  2. train The Wildcard!!!...

    What does beasts do against dawn elemental...
  3. Rakamir New Member

    Why are you asking this at a Zombies thread?

    But to answer your question ... run around it?

    Sorry, I'm being like a college Philosophy prof, answering a question with a question. Why not? :rolleyes:
  4. train The Wildcard!!!...

    because you said...

    ...

    I only checked on beasts since you mentioned it first...

    I already know gobbos has no answer for R/W - slide or not...
  5. Rakamir New Member

    Have you played Beasts? What is it bad against? Is Dawn Elemental enough to shut it down? Does a fat critter per turn scare you? It scares me, frankly.

    Yes, I think White Control, with a splash, will be a tier one deck, as will Beasts, and Zombies. Goblins and Slide will still be good, but 2nd tier, as they lose now to two of the three decks above, NOT because of silver knight or stabilizer. I wonder what the 3rd 2nd tier deck will be. GW Veggies? Elves? Dragons with Degrees of Annihilation? MonoBlack Control featuring Call to the Grave? Or same splashing white?

    The splash for Tier One White Control will probably be black or red, with the other being in the 2nd tier. GW Veggies is hurt badly by the speeded up meta thanks to the Chiefs. Dragon Claws are also hurt for the same reason. Elves are anyone's guess. Soldiers, Clerics, Slivers were looking for help, and got some, but not as much as the others did.

    IMO, as always.
  6. Reverend Love New Member

    Rakamir

    I'm pretty tardy in this discussion nor have I covered all the posts. However has anyone suggested running Zombie Trailblazer in Cover of Darkness's place? His ability of making your zombie's unblockable is killer not to mention his limited land hosing ability. A swampwalking Soulless One is pure death...especially against a fellow black player. Lord only knows how many of my victories are due to this trailblazing zombie. He's slightly tougher to cast but he IS a creature...which can help you in those dire times.
  7. train The Wildcard!!!...

    How I do well against beasts is the akroma's blessings, Dawn elementals, and silver knights...

    The green beasts are the only ones causing me a little trouble...

    But I put Dawn elemental in front of them...

    Also - beasts don't fly - so the angels and elementals give a huge advantage...

    The one Jareth comes in handy - especially once a beast hits the table.
  8. Rakamir New Member

    Thanks for the Zombie Trailblazer idea. My deck changes a lot the more popular Zombies becomes. Well, not a lot, but a little, like 4 Soulless Ones main.

    Check this article out by Clinchy over at Star City re Aggro Zombies. It's one of the better lists I've seen, tho like SO many people, he seems to like Call to the Grave:

    http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/expandnews.php?Article=5164

    CtoG CAN be good, but only in a MUCH more controllish build, like a Mono Black Control (with Zombies!) build.
    There's just too many other things I'd like to do with 5 mana, like win the game by slapping down a Cover of Darkness, attacking with Soulless One, and if that doesn't bring him down to minus fifteen or something, cycle a Polluter for the win.

    I'm still somewhat concerned re my 60th card, but that's not a very bad place to be, if you think about it. It's either the 4th Twisted or the 4th Polluter, which is where it stands now. I always like to publish my current decklist again when a new page starts, so he's my aggro Zombies again with a sideboard change, humbly called:
  9. Rakamir New Member

    RAKA-ZOMBIES

    2 Carrion Feeder
    4 Festering Goblin
    3 Twisted Abomination
    2 Undead Gladiator
    4 Gempalm Polluter
    4 Withered Wretch
    2 Cover of Darkness
    4 Putrid Raptor
    4 Skinthinner
    4 Undead Warchief
    2 Soulless One
    4 Barren Moor
    3 Unholy Grotto
    18 Swamp
    sb
    4 Patriarch's Bidding
    2 Soulless One
    2 Cover of Darkness
    4 Smother
    3 Ark of Blight

    The only change is to turn the 4th Blight in the board to the 4th Soulless One. I continue to board Smother, and have no regrets. I wish I had room for Infest, but don't need it actually. The one sided Wrath of Noxious Ghoul/Rotlung is cool, but no room, again.

    I love the way this thing often smacks with 22 points on a bad day.
    :eek:

    Go Aggro, Young Man! With Recursion!
    Rakamir
  10. Rakamir New Member

    I sat down to work out specific deck subs, and lo and behold, the deck slightly changed.

    Main deck, replace the two Undead Gladiators with Soulless Ones number 3 & 4. The new Board looks like this:

    RAKA-BOARD

    4 Patriarch's Bidding
    2 Cover of Darkness
    4 Smother
    4 Cruel Revival
    1 Stabilizer <=== well, I only needed 14 cards and was looking for filler.....
  11. train The Wildcard!!!...

    Now if you're not running At least a bidding main - or smothers... that makes game 1 easier for my R/W deck...
  12. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    You guys should play-test in the Game Run forum... :)
  13. train The Wildcard!!!...

    It's up to Rakamir...

    I'm game...
  14. Rakamir New Member

    Game 1 easier? I'm playing speed with a tad of combo and control. But mostly speed. Smother is a card I have never been especially enamored of. Kind of a "sheep" card. Think of all the things it does NOT hit, like just about every card in my deck save the skinthinners, 1 drops, and wretches, all of which I can get back if I need to. Bidding will never never never never or ever even be mained in my builds, unless people stop playing Beasts. Or Zombies. Or other tribes. Which they won't.

    Actually, I'm thinking of using Head Games rather than Stabilizer as my "oops" card in the board. "What will you do if you hold back Vengeances and I drop a Head Ga....oops! Silly me, "accidentally" dropping a sideboard card face up during boarding. My bad."
    Too sneaky?

    Have a hand of land,
    Rakamir

    PS. I couldn't care less about losing the first game (tho naturally I'd like to win those too). Tis the match results that count (he reminded himself). Although, if I'm playing the "mirror" and they have: Smother, Bidding, Call tt Grave, Cruel Revival, and Head Games main, I'm happy about my first game chances. :)

    PPS. Game Room forum? I'll look into it. I hope it doesn't involve computer Magic like Apprentice or Magic Online, cuz I'm old fashioned and hate those ... Apprentice because the randomization is unrealistically TOO good, and the other because it's too bad. They need better programs, and anyway, I like facing a real-world partner, which is one of the charms that got me into this game in the first place.

    On the whole, I'd rather have reality...... In a fantasy game. :confused:
  15. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    It's just playing each other on trust, using the site as a medium.
  16. Rakamir New Member

    OK then, well THAT is cool, and thanks. :)
  17. Rakamir New Member

    Rakamir’s Mini-Tourney One (MT1)
    Final Standings after Swiss

    Place/Deck/Matches/Games

    1. Beasts 3-0 6-2
    2. Knight Train 2-1 5-3
    3. Zombies 2-1 5-4
    4. Goblins 2-1 5-4
    5. Dragons 1-2 4-4
    6. GW Veggies 1-2 4-5
    7. Astral Slide 0-2 1-4 drop
    8. Elves 0-2 1-4 drop

    Notes:
    - Slide had better opponents than Elves, and Zombies had better ones than Goblins so that’s why they’re ranked as they are.
    - Elves and Slide are dropped from the tournament unless Peppermint can come up with a better version of Slide and Zvi with a better version of Elves, and except for Timberwatch Elves coming in for Elvish Guidances, I’m not sure they can. Elves are going to die horribly to Starstorm, a not unpopular card. A better version of Slide/MWC+ is the RW Knight Train deck, designed by our very own “train” of Po-Dunk, Texas.
    - The semi’s in top 4 will be repeat matches, and hopefully for Zombies’ sake it will board better vs. Knight Train than it did in Swiss.
    - The Beasts/Gobbo match-up is almost a bye for Beasts.
    - If history repeats itself in the finals, Knight Train will have to board much better vs. Beasts than it did in Swiss. If so, we should see a good match.

    Round 3 results

    Beasts over Knight Train 2-1

    Covered elsewhere. Knights boarded poorly. My fault.

    Goblins over Dragons 2-1

    Covered under "OnBC: Dragons"

    Zombies over GW Veggies 2-1

    Game One: Veggies win. I have new respect for Wall of Mulch, which will in turn respect Cover of Darkness games two and three.

    Games Two and Three: Cover of Darkness. Soulless One. Putrid Raptor. Undead Warchief. Cruel Revival. Cruel Revival. Cruel Revival. Cruel Revival.

    But I repeat myself.

    Each one of the Cruel Revivals deserves mention, they‘re so good. The cards you bring back are Gempalm Polluter and Soulless Ones. The Silvos Anti-Defamation League has declared war on Cruel Revival (did I mention that card?), but nobody cares.

    So, I’ve proven Zombies can beat Vegetation decks. I KNOW it can beat Beasts, 60-40 anyway, with Soulless Ones and Covers being “kind of” key. Goblins? You bet, and better now that I’m losing boarded Biddings in favor of Infests (was going to be Call to the Graves, but I had a good night’s rest and all is clearer in the light of day). Ehhhh, maybe 2 Biddings and 3 Infests. I don’t expect to meet much Slide, but if I do, I’ll be grateful. Maybe 2 Infests and 3 Biddings. Sure glad I’m decisive, but I only want to lose 6 cards vs. Gobbos, so two Infests should be fine.
    Against whitish control decks, I’ll bring in Cruel Revivals, in case I forgot to mention that card.

    Hey, if Beasts can board 8 cards for Goblins, then why can’t we??? Why should THEY have all the fun, huh?

    PS. Besides Kamahl RG Veggies, I’m bringing in a Burn Deck featuring Chartooth Cougar and Blistering Firecat for MT2, unless somebody stops me. I’d like to bring in a BW Control, but I can’t find one I like yet.
  18. Rakamir New Member

    My very own Zombies, aka Raka-Zombies, aka 33-Zombies-main- and-2-Cover-of-Darkness Zombies, won my first mini-tournament, and quite frankly, no one is more surprised than me.

    Incredibly, I have FINALLY built a damn good deck.

    Take this puppy for play in Detroit, and you won't be disappointed. Briefly, I beat RW Control Knight Train, 2-0, and in the finals, Beasts, 2-0 also. In all four games, Cover of Darkness made the difference, and sadly for the 2-color decks, they were either mana-screwed or color-screwed game 2.

    It happens.

    Here is the updated list I would take to Detroit ... I've basically changed the 4 Biddings and 1 Head Games to 3 Biddings and 2 Infests. Boarding isn't tough, it's usually 2 Covers and 4 Cruel Revivals, or 2 Covers and 4 Smother, or 4 Smother and 2 Infest vs Gobbos. Good luck, everyone. Rock on ! :)

    RAKA-ZOMBIES
    July (Quintilis) 7, 2003
    Finely tuned since June 1

    2 Cover of Darkness <= *****++
    2 Carrion Feeder <= weakest of the strong
    4 Festering Goblin <= ** or ***
    3 Twisted Abomination <= ****
    4 Gempalm Polluter <= *****+
    4 Withered Wretch <= ** or ****
    4 Putrid Raptor <= *****
    4 Skinthinner <= ** or *****
    4 Undead Warchief <= *****+
    4 Soulless One <= *****+
    4 Barren Moor <= ****
    3 Unholy Grotto <= ****
    18 Swamp
    sb
    3 Patriarch's Bidding <== random or slide decks
    4 Cruel Revival <== so good *******+*+*+***+
    2 Cover of Darkness
    4 Smother
    2 Infest

    Maybe it's hard to tell, but I kinda LOVE Cruel Revival. Lots of 5 star cards there. Good luck to all.
  19. train The Wildcard!!!...

    Don't make me go over there Rakamir!...;) :p

    I'd still run a deck with white in it...

    Never got the G/W veggies tuned...:rolleyes:
  20. Rakamir New Member

    I'm surprised no one has asked me how Zombies beats Goblins. Believe me, first game ... you don't (unless you're the luckiest guy in the room)!! :mad:

    I'm still testing that match-up, and first game is very UNfavorable. Each time you come within a half turn of victory, only to have your hopes dashed, almost to the point you feel you should concede game one. Siege-Gang Commander's "synergy" with Goon is damn awesome.

    But honestly, I've had it with both cards. Vs other decks, if you're stuck at 4 mana, Commander is useless, and if the Goblin opponent can handle critters, Goon can be worthless. So why shouldn't Blistering Firecat come back? Slide? Who plays that now !? Makes Sparksmith more playable in the midgame, believe me. Anyway, back to Zombies.

    To have a chance at all in games 2 and 3, I've changed my sideboard, turning the 3 open slots (currently 3 Biddings) into a lone Bidding, and Infests #3 and #4.

    That makes the subs for Gobbos:
    -2 Cover of Darkness -4 Withered Wretch -1 Skinthinner
    +4 Smother +4 Infest +1 Patriarch's Bidding.

    And yes, I'm looking for another better answer for red than Bidding. Any "tech" out there?

    Let's face it, mono-Red has always had mono-Black's number, except when Necropotence the Horribly Broken was legal. Engineered simply wasn't enough. It heklped a LOT to draw that sideboard card before Sligh killed you. The best way to get past Goblins may be to get 3 byes at Detroit, and pray you avoid Red.

    My Zombies beats Beasts, however, and thank God for that. Goblins will be the most popular deck, and the hatred for Gobbos will be as extreme as the hatred for Slide was at Venice. The very best players will be playing W/x or Beasts, however. and I know my Zombies beats those if properly played. Well, I haven't tried BW yet. We'll see. The adventure .... continues ....

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