I do not know (or care about) your background. Trust you? Why? Has this worked for you in the past? Do you seriously say, in arguments, "You are ignorant" or "You are wrong" and expect the other person to suddenly go, "Wow. Why didn't I see it your way before?" Well, you had said, "you lose this time bud." I said, "But I guess none of that matters, since I 'lose bud' by decree of the almighty HOUTS" to which you responded, "No, it's your stubborn attitude, commonly displayed..." That looks like you changed your mind. Liberal? Where'd that come from? What's liberal about my attitude? You seem to have the habit of asking a question and them answering it in the same post as though your answer must surely be the answer that the reader would give were he to respond to the question. I think I might be starting to see why Sefro finds you amusing (although really I can relate more to Istanbul at the moment). You should call it incoherent a few more times. The repetition will make your claims true. You might be catching on. Yes, I did say you were whining. Does this bother you, whiner? And then I cowered in fear at the presence of HOUTS! I promptly hid in a corner and regretted having been such a bad Timmy... Oh? When was this? I have it worded wrong? I'm the one that said it. I can't very well misquote myself... Context does not dictate coherency. Huh? I was not trying to be witty. I think I would know that better than you, unless you can read minds... It wasn't an insult and it wasn't being used to back up any of my points. I was being completely serious. I don't find my responses witty--but yours are so stolid that they do make mine look good by contrast. My point (which, not surprisingly, seems to have gone over your head) was that "you lose bud" is not a tactic that supports any of your contentions. Sarcasm IS used in debates because it can be powerful if applied properly. "You lose bud" serves no purpose whatsoever, unless you expect the other party to be brainwashed by your retort. What lesson? The lesson that I can't simply use quotations if HOUTS doesn't get them? I guess you're going to be frustrated then, because I'll quote whatever plays I like, whenever I like. Hey, who knows? I might even insert quotes that really don't make sense, even with context--just for you. My sympathies go out to your misinformed students (if they exist).