Official Mirrodin Hate Topic

Discussion in 'General CPA Stuff' started by TheCasualOblivion, Jan 15, 2005.

  1. TheCasualOblivion 10 year Veteran Newbie

    I figured a casual meetingplace like this deserves a topic where we can all crap on Mirrodin/Darksteel/Fifth Dawn. Because, after all, has there ever been a series of sets this hated by the casual player?

    Feel free to vent.
  2. Reverend Love New Member

    I loved the entire Mirrodin block. There's so many cool cards to play with like Proteus Staff, Door to Nothingness, Gate to the Aether, Crucible of Worlds, the slith cycle, pulse cycle, and so many more. I have to say this is probably no kidding my favorite block of all time. I'm not saying this to be a smart mouth and slight TCO. I'm saying it because as a Johnny, Mirrodin gave me plenty of toys.

    This block would have been MUCH better had the broken synergy of Ravager and Disciple not been present. It’s an unfortunate side affect that so many interesting cards from the Mirrodin block didn’t/couldn’t see play because of a development snafu in Ravager affinity.
  3. Gizmo Composite: 1860

    Mirrodin looks like a good block with a bad mechanic (Affinity).

    And a stupidly broken card (Skullclamp).
  4. jorael Craptacular!

    You state that Mirrodin block is hated by casual players. I know 2-3 who would agree, but I know at least an equal amount of players who enjoyed it very much.

    It was a great block for all kind of weird deck combo creation. I really like sunburst, the 'cog'-mechanic, some nice entwine cards.
    Heck even affinity is cool, but just too broken with ravager. That card is absent in our group, though.

    The block isn't as simple as Onslaught (e.g. goblins have synergy with, duh other goblins) and give a bit more open ended deck design options. That's why I like spirits in Kamigawa at the moment. I find the samurai a bit boring...
  5. Ferret CPA Founder, Slacker

    Well, I saw some things that I did like - such as the encouragement to build prismatic decks that I hadn't seen since Invasion - and some mechanics that I absolutely hated - like Afinity (does Blue need any more advantages?) and Darksteel.

    It reminded me a lot of Urza's Saga (the set, not the block). It had a lot of potential, but it was loaded w/ far too much that was easy to exploit.

    I really like what I'm seeing w/ the Kamigawa cycle. Lots of emphasis on creatures and some pretty nice mechanics that aren't really easy to abuse - but fun when you do!

    -Ferret

    "I miss the days when sets were just thrown together - like Ice Age"
  6. Ephraim New Member

    I have a love hate relationship with Mirrodin block. On one hand, I'm tired of seeing colourless decks. Part of Magic is the colour pie and having all these decks that don't use coloured cards (or use very few of them) is pretty dull. Now, I have to admit that I have one of them myself, but at least it isn't a carbon copy of most of them. It's a golem theme deck, which is a far cry from anything resembling Affinity.

    As for Skullclamp, I like the thing. Is it abusive? Sure, in some situations. But the reason it made it through the design/development mill in the first place is because they wanted a card that would give aggro a shot against traditionally more powerful archetypes. They got that. Unfortunately, they failed to see how much more those more powerful archetypes would also benefit. For myself, I use it as a "fair" card-drawing engine in creature-based aggro and aggro-control decks.
  7. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    I was particularly fed up with the block themes that were being done, and it got to be more blatant than ever before with Mirrodin.

    Skullclamp is one insane card, but it's not the only broken card in the block.

    Mirrodin block may have done something more important, though. In Vintage, for the last several sets (every set since Urza's Destiny) few cards were released in each set that had the potential to be used in actual tournament decks. Even fewer actually managed to shake up the game. Onslaught managed to do something by releasing five exceptional lands (the fetchlands) and Scourge had some storm cards. But when Mirrodin came out, there was a barrage of playable cards hurled at the format. This continued to an extent with Darksteel and Fifth Dawn. I cannot remember and probably didn't learn all of the cards that made an impact on Vintage and other formats, but there were Chrome Mox, Trinisphere, Crucible of Worlds, Skullclamp, Disciple of the Vault, Arcbound Ravager, Sundering Titan, Mindslaver, Darksteel Colossus, Night's Whisper, Eternal Witness, Trinket Mage, Auriok Salvagers, Thirst for Knowledge, Chalice of the Void, Broodstar, Solemn Simulacrum, Pentavus, Goblin Charbelcher, and Krark-Clan Ironworks just to name a some.

    Mirrodin may not have been the the most enjoyable of blocks, and it's not my favorite at all. But it is the most powerful block since Urza's, and has made a dramatic impact on the game. I can't really say I hate it. Would I have changed some things myself at the time, given the opportunity? Sure, but I would say so of any set in Magic's history.
  8. TheCasualOblivion 10 year Veteran Newbie

    You guys do have some points. There are a few cards from the block I swear by, like Leonin Skyhunter, Empyrial Plate(attacking with Plated Savanna Lions on turn 3 for 9 damage is fun, my White Weenie deck seems to just love holding cards). Chittering Rats, Razor Golem and Spire Golem for example.

    Most of my unhappiness with Mirrodin is just what the set has done to the game recently. Mirrodin kind of turned magic into Artifact(affinity) decks vs. Anti Artifact(anti-Affinity) decks. Its not that bad in my play group, since we all hate the set with a passion, and aside from one bad affinity deck(if the deck worked, we'd chase the deck away, the deck's owner is a newbie and not really good yet, so we let her slide), 2 So-So Sunburst decks which don't really offend anyone, and a few of us with some odd cards, we basically shun those sets. Most of us build decks out of a core of cards from Kamigawa and Onslaught, with a lot of old and weird cards thrown in.
  9. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Do you mean it turned Type II into that? Because it didn't turn the whole game into that by any stretch of the imagination...
  10. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    I thought the Mirrodin block was great and just wished that I had more time to devote and play Magic so I could have explored it more. As it was, one guy in our group tried an Affinity deck but pretty much immediately drew the "wrath" of two other players when he played a Ravager so it wasn't that big of a deal. Plus, artifact lands go "boom" when you set off a Pernicious Deed (part of the control deck I was playing) :)
  11. Mikeymike Captain Hiatus

    I agree with Gizmo, if you can avoid Affinity/Skullclamp there is a lot of fun to be had with Mirrodin.
  12. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Heh, my Powder Keg saw a lot of use when Mirrodin was at the height of its popularity in local playgroups...
  13. Nightstalkers Creature — Nightstalker

    Eh... I kinda liked Mirrodin to an extent.


    At least they gave me an excuse to play artifact decks.
  14. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Why would you need an excuse?
  15. Nightstalkers Creature — Nightstalker

    Usually people hate me when I start building upon my "crazy" ideas. I just had an old artifact deck centered around killing everyone in my playgroup specifically. Mirrodin just brought out the artificial sweeteners for me to throw into the cogs.


    —The Nightstalkers

    "Crazy: When you're nuts and you like it."
  16. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    A friend of mine had an entirely different problem. He had built a potent artifact deck, and opponents almost never expected anything like it. They might be running a few Disenchants or some such card, but never enough to really hurt him. After Mirrodin really set in, it seemed like even the most casual of casual players wanted to maindeck artifact hate...
  17. Nightstalkers Creature — Nightstalker

    I play casually and most of my friends don't even know what to expect me to deck out at'em.


    It's hillarious... artifact hate Vs. deckout when they're playing artifact hate.


    Well, I think it's funny.
  18. Limited Yes, but we won't care

    I can wholeheartily admit I hate Mirrodin.
    All of a sudden all my decks had to support mass-artifact hate and moreover, the occasional artifact i used in my decks suddenly had a life-expectency dropped to half a turn..

    Even now, someone might grab a Salvager Deck or a Mycosinth Golem deck and the game turns to *&%#. Either I am packing mass artifact hate (shatterstorm, pulverize, corrosion, rebuild, titania's song?) and the game is over due to this one card.. I don't really enjoy this..
    Of course, not all my decks pack the meltdown, and they wither and die quickly..

    Seeing a myr enforcer pretty much makes me want to scoop.

    PS
    I do like Sunburst though. Go figure
  19. Dragon Bloodthirsty New Member

    I hate affinity, and made a decent deck out of it to show other players why they should hate it too. I only really play with it when either
    A) People start mocking me (then I play affinity and kill them first) or
    B) I haven't won a game all night on a long night and I don't want to go home without winning one

    I absolutely hate affinity. It's rediculous and stupid. Affinity for artifacts is the worst; affinity for basic land isn't so bad, but I still don't like it all that much.


    The only real problem/frustration I have is that the really simple to put together decks (like slivers and affinity) are so much more powerful than the others. Thallids didn't stomp everything like this, and they weren't really un-fun to play with.

    Sunburst WAS cool, but underpowered. I tried to make it work; it can stand up to the little things, but not to anything that really wins. At least not with any deck I've managed to build.
  20. Reverend Love New Member

    I don't think that's necessarily a Mirrodin centric flaw.

    It appears to me that R&D is in cruise control concerning set design. First they come up with a concept or mechanic. Then create filler to patch up that concept in the three big formats WoTC wants to push push:

    Draft
    Block
    Standard

    Then it's off to development to balance cost, power and all the other odds and ends.

    My point of view is that this sucks for a couple reasons:

    1. When they design a mechanic or theme for a set they design very restrictive, linear cards. Affinity for example screams USE LOTS OF ARTIFACTS STUPID! And the cards are only truly useful if applied as such.

    2. Out of every new set only 15-20% of the cards are truly modular in nature. The rest are heavily reliant on their mechanic and theme brethren, cripplingly so. Look at CoK for example. Nearly all of these cards are designed and balanced from the top down to fill their respective mechanic/concept theme.

    3. Points 1 and 2 combine to stifle player's deck creativity. Instead of examining the resources provided, developing your own concept of how the cards should work and building a deck. WoTC is doing it for you. It may appear that your building your own spirit or elf deck but your really not. Players will take the path of least resistance in card choice. Choosing only the best and most versatile. Unfortunately R&D and Development have already trekked ahead of you machete in hand, chopping away at the chaff, making those choices for you. All your really doing is picking up their breadcrumbs.

    4. When Development sleeps at the wheel we see monsters like U/G Madness and Affinity pop up. Mechanics and themes with entirely too much synergy. And when combined void the metagame of the possibility of original non-planned decks appearing. And in Affinity’s case, quashing other mechanics and themes.

    5. Stagnation. We can see this in Extended and to a degree in Type 1. Even with the large card pools available, the mechanics created within each block still hold entirely too much synergy to be ignored. Doesn't it bother anyone that Madness is being argued as a deck to beat in extended? EXTENDED? With Affinity’s ascension widely regarded as a matter of time. The core concept of these block decks remain the same. Usually only tweaked with superior lands and oddball spells to round out the decks prior weaknesses.

    I really had hopes up for R&D to put aside the mechanic/theme formula for set construction, and return to more modular sets like Mirage and Tempest. It's WoTC's job to make the cards and do their best to balance. It's our job as players to make the decks. And unfortunately WoTC is doing our job for us.

    I can understand why they do this. It makes set design and development easier. But come on, enough is enough.

    For once I'd like to able to build decks out of an entire set. Not just 1/3, because I'm too busy ignoring the other 2/3, which WoTC has already, decided how I’d use and why.

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