Mirrodin Mechanic: Equipment

Discussion in 'General CPA Stuff' started by Spiderman, Sep 2, 2003.

  1. Thallid Ice Cream Man 21sT CeNTuRy sChIZoId MaN

    Equipment isn't new, Tribal wasn't new, Multicolor wasn't new. Should this matter? I think not.

    Equipment is interesting because of the potential to have continuous abilities on Equipment artifacts.
  2. DÛke Memento Mori

    ...

    Yes, TICM, those weren't new - but let's not be a stupid and call "equipment" new, when it is not. Besides, Multi-colored cards and Tribal were never really called "new card type since Legends."

    Rooser - you make a good point.

    For example: they could have a card that says "Destroy target equipped creature." Or they could have "Unequip all equipped creatures," or "detach all equipment cards in play and attach them to target creature. At the end of the turn, destroy that creature." See - many possibilities!

    Let me note, however, that the same depth could have been used with mere creature enchantments!

    I agree about your theory, but this theory could have easily applied to so many other cards and card types.

    Spiderman - sure, we need to see the full set before we judge. But a team that from the beginning calls "equipment" something "new" is not about to out of nowhere pull out some creative uses for these "new card types." Equipment might start "good," (so can creature enchantments and artifacts), but then they will spiral downwards - nobody cares much about creature support - only the best is allowed. Everything else is trash. Even for casual play.

    Oh well, it's not like I play any more...
  3. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Tell that to my group, especially one guy in particular who loves creature enchantments :)

    Perhaps it's not "new" in theory, but technically speaking, having an artifact type of Equipment is "new". Maybe this should be a question to Ask Wizards... :)
  4. train The Wildcard!!!...

    It all boils down to - WoTC does not want a set to be broken...

    so coming up with ideas - that need to be "new" and interesting has it's limits...:rolleyes:
  5. Reverend Love New Member

    Equipment would have been AWESOME if it weren't nerfed down to sorcery speed. Again WoTC gives us something cool to tinker with it but due to their recent timid nature delegate it to a niche roll.
  6. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Can you "break" it at instant speed?
  7. train The Wildcard!!!...

    You can break it at Sorcery speed...

    All it takes is recurring mana(green) and blue...

    The blue creature that copies power and toughness can get bigger and bigger and bigger...;)
  8. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Yeah, but the complaint is that it's not at instant speed. If you can break it at sorcery speed, is it definitely broken at instant speed?
  9. Thallid Ice Cream Man 21sT CeNTuRy sChIZoId MaN

    I don't think it should necessarily be the job of Mirrodin (ESPECIALLY the mere 5 cards we've seen so far, 2 of which deal with Equipment) to show us everything the mechanic can do. It may not be flashy at first; it may not even be flashy later, but as it is a keyword I expect Equipment will add a new dimension to Magic, which will be developed over a long time. Can you fault Wizards for not living up to externally exposed hype about a product -- one you won't even buy yourself? If you seem to hate the game this much, then shut up. We know (especially if you tell us more than once on the thread) you refuse to like anything they do. I'm getting very tired of this bull, and I regret that it's one of the few vestiges we still largely have of any political solidarity.

    I've only bought a few boosters since Apocalypse, but I think I may actually buy quite a few Mirrodin cards, regardless of your predictions at this point.
  10. train The Wildcard!!!...

    If it's broken at Sorcery speed... I don't know of anything that would slow it down if it went to instant speed... it would just be playable anytime...

    well... almost anytime...
  11. Rooser Thread Necromancer

    If you're trying to "break" it, the speed doesn't matter so long as it can be used more than once per turn. However, I think what Reverend Love was saying was that for general use, (non-combo uses that is), being able to switch creatures at instant speed would have been much more useful. If you could set the Loxodon Warhammer to whichever of your attacking creatures wasn't blocked, or use a toughness-boosting equipment to save a creature from direct damage, the equipment mechanic would be much more useful.

    As for the criticism of the mechanic for its blandness, I agree. It's not too interesting. I was merely stating that a mechanic's strength lies in the cards surrounding it and that making it a mechanic really isn't the function equivalent of Runesword.

    As for WOTC's creativity level, I've actually been pretty pleased with them. I know that the power level has dropped, and I don't like all their policies, and their PR can be a bunch hypocritical douche-bags, but the flavor and design of many of the new cards is really good if you give them a chance. Again, I'm not too crazy about morph, but they did a good job with cycling. And the Odyssey block mechanics were awesome in that they actually offered you a new way to play the game. Their was no functional equivalent of the blue-green madness archetype or the cunning wake archetype before ody-block, (Not to mention a bajillion casual decks that use the graveyard).

    Equipment isn't anything great, but Imprint and Entwine have some fascinating possibilities. (Entwine is MUCH better than Kicker by design actually). Invasion block was the Block of Bad Taste, but since then the sets have been thematically very interesting, and I actually have good feelings about Mirrodin.

    That said, YES, equipment is pretty stale.
  12. Reverend Love New Member

    Rooser picked up what I was trying to say. The potential for some pretty nifty stuff is diminished by it's use restriction. Imagine Twanos Wanding a Cephalid Constable only to equip Loxodon Hammer just before damage goes on the stack.

    Equipment I agree isn't exactly breaking new ground. However it's definitely better then the tired old creature enchantment buffs the game's been churning out for the last 10 years. Equipment in it's current form will see use in my casual decks of MAYHEM. Instant speed equipment however I dare say might have even seen limited tourney use.

    A quick question...Equipping the Hammer onto a Exalted Angel would gain you 14 points of life correct? A double spirit link effect?

    Rooser

    From what I've read and the difference in power levels since King CoUntaR Beuhler took reigns, I think WoTC will continue to be quite gun-shy when concerning power levels. Obviously the mentality of change of old "If it looks broke release it anways, if it proves broke we'll ban it then" to "If it looks broke don't release it or nerf it hard"...resulting in the Wizards tribe as we see them today (sucking hard) and lots of cards with the words attached "only if...."
  13. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    I agree with what you're saying and it's obviously hard to judge by just looking at one card, but I have a but more faith in WOTC than the rest of you (it appears :) ) in that there are probably some Equipment cards that would be broken at instant speed and that's why it's at sorcery speed. Yes, it would be awesome, but I think they're still playable at sorcery speed where if a couple are "broken" at instant speed, it doesn't do any good to get those banned/restricted and thus not be able to use them.

    to answer the Rules question: yes.

    I think the Odyssey block with its graveyard mechanics was VERY strong; so strong that it altered the way my playgroup plays and I have to pretty much be packing anti-graveyard stuff just to throw off my group. But I still like it :)
  14. Rooser Thread Necromancer

    Side note: My friend is pissed off that ody-block changed the way people play. Well, it didn't really. Old school black beat-down still works. Sligh still works. It's just that new styles work too. I changed the way people CAN play, but not the way they HAVE TO play, but some old schoolers are too grumpy to see this.
  15. Notepad Seffy Sefro

    Equipment only looks stale. Trust me, in one year's time, you'll be tired of getting your rear mopped up by opponent's equipment.

    Who cares if you can't do combat tricks with it? You couldn't do combat tricks with Rancor, and it is quite possibly the best enchant creature ever. Equipment does what made rancor so great: Remain around for fun boosting. It does it differently, but it will be cool because of it.
  16. Nightstalkers Creature — Nightstalker

    For sure Equipment is stale and boring, but the ability is targeting, so we get more fun out of it that way.


    Cephilids are such annoying creatures when pacified, and donated to your opponent.
  17. Reverend Love New Member

    No arguing that.
  18. EricBess Active Member

    Of course, with Rancor, you didn't have to pay one cost to cast it and another to put it on something. Not saying that this will keep them from being good, but it will be a consideration.
  19. Notepad Seffy Sefro

    Equipment definitely has a steeper startup cost than enchant creatures, but the cheapness of its reuse, plus the fact that you get to reuse it, will surely make enchant creatures a thing of the past...

    ...unless they get more powerful, ala Aura, or Armadillo Cloak. That, or do what Rancor does. If not for that, lets all toss our enchant creatures in the dumpster now.

    *rant reminder*
  20. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

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