T
train
Guest
I hadn't looked at it that way...
It would turn around and get you more cards though... you never know when someone will need that extra disciple of law...
It would turn around and get you more cards though... you never know when someone will need that extra disciple of law...
O
Offline
Guest
First off, i would like to start out by posting a funny ruleing for this *broken* card: (This is for you Dave)
You can play Isochron scepter without imprinting an instant on to it. It would then read: 2,Tap: You may do nothing.
Also, if you were to cunning wish for the card you removed from the game to imprint Isochron scepter, the scepter would forget the card. and then read: 2, Tap: you may do nothing.
dont go wishing for your instant back.
Alot of you are on the right track with this card. And alot of you have good ideas. But lets open this card to it's full potential...We know it's going to be banned in extended. And it will most likely be restricted in type 1...It is a great combo card. Bottom line.
If you were to put a Platnum angle into play, (she reads: You cannot lose the game. and your opponents cannot win the game.) with an Isochron scepter. what would you imprint? A counter to keep the angle from dyeing? a tutor to get a great utility card? Or how about the never used too much, Final fortune. It's two red, It's an instant, and you get another turn. Whats that you say?
"but you die at the end of the next turn!"
Not true, you lose the game at the end of your next turn...but the angel will be there to be your new guardian.
In extended, you only stop taking turns when you want to.
Hows that for the most broken card to grace magic.
I would like to thank the the crew and friends of Discordia games. We sat around for hours drinking coffee comming up with ways to play these cards. Now lets go and get Isochron scepter banned.
You can play Isochron scepter without imprinting an instant on to it. It would then read: 2,Tap: You may do nothing.
Also, if you were to cunning wish for the card you removed from the game to imprint Isochron scepter, the scepter would forget the card. and then read: 2, Tap: you may do nothing.
dont go wishing for your instant back.
Alot of you are on the right track with this card. And alot of you have good ideas. But lets open this card to it's full potential...We know it's going to be banned in extended. And it will most likely be restricted in type 1...It is a great combo card. Bottom line.
If you were to put a Platnum angle into play, (she reads: You cannot lose the game. and your opponents cannot win the game.) with an Isochron scepter. what would you imprint? A counter to keep the angle from dyeing? a tutor to get a great utility card? Or how about the never used too much, Final fortune. It's two red, It's an instant, and you get another turn. Whats that you say?
"but you die at the end of the next turn!"
Not true, you lose the game at the end of your next turn...but the angel will be there to be your new guardian.
In extended, you only stop taking turns when you want to.
Hows that for the most broken card to grace magic.
I would like to thank the the crew and friends of Discordia games. We sat around for hours drinking coffee comming up with ways to play these cards. Now lets go and get Isochron scepter banned.
Attachments
T
train
Guest
this still doesn't stop your opponent from:
Getting rid of the angel,
getting rid of the scepter,
countering the scepter to start with,
countering the angel to start with,
removing the angels ability,
stifleing the ability - leaving you with a 2, T: DO NOTHING card...
killing you with recursion, after killing the angel...
There's a lot that can still be done to control this...
Restricted - maybe - with so much artifact control out there - it's not too hard to keep under wraps...
now - where's that mystic snake that I imprinted?...
Blue Green Control - man I could be a sick Magic player...
Getting rid of the angel,
getting rid of the scepter,
countering the scepter to start with,
countering the angel to start with,
removing the angels ability,
stifleing the ability - leaving you with a 2, T: DO NOTHING card...
killing you with recursion, after killing the angel...
There's a lot that can still be done to control this...
Restricted - maybe - with so much artifact control out there - it's not too hard to keep under wraps...
now - where's that mystic snake that I imprinted?...
Blue Green Control - man I could be a sick Magic player...
O
Offline
Guest
Your right Train. And while were at it. Why even bother playing Land? I mean it could be:
Stone rained...
winters grasped...
rain of tears...
pillage...
creaping mold...
What you dont see is, you cant fear every spell out there when building a deck. otherwise you would never get anywhere. Sure theres shatters and counteres out there. and even more so in extended. but i dont think everybody in extended will be playing red/blue just to beat my "Final angel" deck. that, and i'm going to be playing with card support in my deck to help out against spells like shatter and the like.
If you go into a tourny with 4 detonates, 4 shatters, 4 pillages and 4 shatterstormes in your main deck just becaouse your scared of some artifacts. good for you. what ever makes you feel safe. but not everybody will be doing that, because some people are smart, and they know those are sideboard cards for the most part.
Me, i will be running 4 pillages main deck. why, because it's good. and if my opponent isn't an artifact monkey i'll destory his land.
I'm sorry Train. I have never heard of something so narrow minded in all my life. you just cant run around scared of every little counterspell there is out there. you have to learn to accept it. people will play them. and it's up to you to learn how to play through them.
After all, It takes work to live...Dying is easy.
Stone rained...
winters grasped...
rain of tears...
pillage...
creaping mold...
What you dont see is, you cant fear every spell out there when building a deck. otherwise you would never get anywhere. Sure theres shatters and counteres out there. and even more so in extended. but i dont think everybody in extended will be playing red/blue just to beat my "Final angel" deck. that, and i'm going to be playing with card support in my deck to help out against spells like shatter and the like.
If you go into a tourny with 4 detonates, 4 shatters, 4 pillages and 4 shatterstormes in your main deck just becaouse your scared of some artifacts. good for you. what ever makes you feel safe. but not everybody will be doing that, because some people are smart, and they know those are sideboard cards for the most part.
Me, i will be running 4 pillages main deck. why, because it's good. and if my opponent isn't an artifact monkey i'll destory his land.
I'm sorry Train. I have never heard of something so narrow minded in all my life. you just cant run around scared of every little counterspell there is out there. you have to learn to accept it. people will play them. and it's up to you to learn how to play through them.
After all, It takes work to live...Dying is easy.
T
train
Guest
Any deck designer in his right mind in this format - in all formats - will be running artifact control main deck...
Each color has it - minus blue and black...
blue will counter/bounce, and black will splash either red/green/white/blue...
It's not narrow minded - it's knowing the format...
Green has it's pillage - creeping mold...
disenchant and naturalize are going to be in the decks running green or white... in some format... minus power 9 recursion...
so they either control the angel - or the scepter... and that's not using counters - I'm not even a blue player - but i know the format... and it's too vulnerable... you'd have to play a lot of other cards just to protect the ones your combo works off of...
All I stated were facts... why is that narrow minded???...
Each color has it - minus blue and black...
blue will counter/bounce, and black will splash either red/green/white/blue...
It's not narrow minded - it's knowing the format...
Green has it's pillage - creeping mold...
disenchant and naturalize are going to be in the decks running green or white... in some format... minus power 9 recursion...
so they either control the angel - or the scepter... and that's not using counters - I'm not even a blue player - but i know the format... and it's too vulnerable... you'd have to play a lot of other cards just to protect the ones your combo works off of...
All I stated were facts... why is that narrow minded???...
O
Offline
Guest
I'm done.
T
train
Guest
No - I didn't stop to think about you playing ounter - but you need to if you'd want this to be decent...
2 - I'm not assuming anything - I'm stating fact, you admitted that - or did you forget... Thanks for reading my other posts
3 - I play Magic for 1 reason - I like the endless possibilities that exist...
4 - The decks I play are not tier 1 decks - that's why I play them...
5 - It's a combo deck - 3 card combo minimum - 4 if you include protection at least 1 protection... alternate wins?... enough protection to stay off your heels... defense?... offense?... Like I said you have 16 slots taken, the usual 24 land - you have 20 slots to take care of everything else... Show the support for the idea... we do have a decks forum...
And don't take this so strongly... unless your rating is above 1900... if so - this wouldn't be your tier 1 deck either... you'd have to play this in tourneys for it to get banned - which it won't... not even restricted...
i didn't say that it wasn't a good combo though...
1 - you offer no support... or have you not thought that far ahead... you only say that this is the way to break it... This card won't be banned or restricted - because it's not broken... It's also not strong enough to make the tier 1 decks - my call right now... you lose 2 cards for the price of one of the opponents... and wishes are no longer in the format...
2 - I'm not assuming anything - I'm stating fact, you admitted that - or did you forget... Thanks for reading my other posts
3 - I play Magic for 1 reason - I like the endless possibilities that exist...
4 - The decks I play are not tier 1 decks - that's why I play them...
5 - It's a combo deck - 3 card combo minimum - 4 if you include protection at least 1 protection... alternate wins?... enough protection to stay off your heels... defense?... offense?... Like I said you have 16 slots taken, the usual 24 land - you have 20 slots to take care of everything else... Show the support for the idea... we do have a decks forum...
And don't take this so strongly... unless your rating is above 1900... if so - this wouldn't be your tier 1 deck either... you'd have to play this in tourneys for it to get banned - which it won't... not even restricted...
i didn't say that it wasn't a good combo though...
I have to agree with train - your conversation morphed from whether the Scepter will be banned/restricted to whether you should be playing anything at all.
Cards are banned/restricted generally because they're dominating the format or cause the game to be a decided by who goes first. I don't see that with the Scepter since it is decently cost and there are so many ways to get rid of it and not have the opposing deck be solely anti-artifact. Obviously time will tell, but I just don't see it.
There are of course wondrous possibilities of combos with the Scepter, but I don't think it's dominating...
Cards are banned/restricted generally because they're dominating the format or cause the game to be a decided by who goes first. I don't see that with the Scepter since it is decently cost and there are so many ways to get rid of it and not have the opposing deck be solely anti-artifact. Obviously time will tell, but I just don't see it.
There are of course wondrous possibilities of combos with the Scepter, but I don't think it's dominating...
O
Offline
Guest
You know. I started this off with a couple rules, and then the deck combo i would be running. Then it was train who said that it was easily destoryed. It's that right there that pissed me off. I hate it when people sit there and say, "well i could just counter it."
You know. I dont care. Thats it. I really dont give a flying F**K if you can counter it. You know why, Because you can counter, your brother can counter, your mom can counter, Jon finkel can counter. thats great.
Everybody can build their counter decks and i wont care. Why? because i expect people to play with there good cards. i dont expect people to play to lose.
I dont know why people like train sit here and say things like that. it is extreamly narrow minded.
You dont see me posting to everybods deck saying, "Well i could just counter that..." why? because i like to think, "that might just be a good idea. and with the right support, it could be a great deck."
And yes, it was my opinion when i stated that i believe Isochron scepter will get banned. it is a really powerful card. it can make some really nasty decks.
Now, i dont know if i really want to post this, but try throwing a boomerang onto the scepter first turn. which is very possible in type two even. Second turn, land lock. think about it.
You know. I dont care. Thats it. I really dont give a flying F**K if you can counter it. You know why, Because you can counter, your brother can counter, your mom can counter, Jon finkel can counter. thats great.
Everybody can build their counter decks and i wont care. Why? because i expect people to play with there good cards. i dont expect people to play to lose.
I dont know why people like train sit here and say things like that. it is extreamly narrow minded.
You dont see me posting to everybods deck saying, "Well i could just counter that..." why? because i like to think, "that might just be a good idea. and with the right support, it could be a great deck."
And yes, it was my opinion when i stated that i believe Isochron scepter will get banned. it is a really powerful card. it can make some really nasty decks.
Now, i dont know if i really want to post this, but try throwing a boomerang onto the scepter first turn. which is very possible in type two even. Second turn, land lock. think about it.
I think you're misunderstanding what train was trying to say. He was saying that because there's so many ways to deal with the Scepter or whatever it combos with, that it won't need to get banned, for the aforementioned reasons I stated. That's all. He wasn't saying because there's so many ways to deal with the Scepter that you shouldn't play it...
T
train
Guest
The boomerang is probably better than the fortune idea...
But I was looking at it as you originally said it - "Now lets go and get Isochron scepter banned."
... there's too many answers for that to happen...
I don't play blue - and I also don't play to win... though it's nice when I do... I play to have fun, period.
When this gets too serious, and it is just a game, people have issues... that's why i play and collect - a hobby, fun...
But I do hope you enjoy playing your deck... have you designed it yet?... will you be posting it in the decks forum?... just wondering...
But I was looking at it as you originally said it - "Now lets go and get Isochron scepter banned."
... there's too many answers for that to happen...
I don't play blue - and I also don't play to win... though it's nice when I do... I play to have fun, period.
When this gets too serious, and it is just a game, people have issues... that's why i play and collect - a hobby, fun...
But I do hope you enjoy playing your deck... have you designed it yet?... will you be posting it in the decks forum?... just wondering...
O
Offline
Guest
Thats fine. it wont get banned then because you can counter it.
wait a sec...whats this? Tolarian Acadamy...are you banned? hold on...heres another poor card. Survival of the fittest? why are you banned if theres so many ways of taking care of you? and look over here in this corner, why it's Memory Jar. your not that powerful because somebody could just cast disenchant. but if thats true, why are you banned?
DO YOU SEE WHAT I'M SAYING YET? sure it can be countered, it can be shattered. but the same can go for all those other cards out there that have been banned or restricted.
just because it can be shattered or countered doesn't mean it wont get banned. those other cards got banned because they were the key for some powerful, and nearly unstoppable combos. They were "dominating the format." I can see the scepter doing this as well. i can see that scepeter being played in mono blue controll and never letting your opponent cast a spell.
if this isn't powerful. what is?
there were just as many ways to destory those other cards.
wait a sec...whats this? Tolarian Acadamy...are you banned? hold on...heres another poor card. Survival of the fittest? why are you banned if theres so many ways of taking care of you? and look over here in this corner, why it's Memory Jar. your not that powerful because somebody could just cast disenchant. but if thats true, why are you banned?
DO YOU SEE WHAT I'M SAYING YET? sure it can be countered, it can be shattered. but the same can go for all those other cards out there that have been banned or restricted.
just because it can be shattered or countered doesn't mean it wont get banned. those other cards got banned because they were the key for some powerful, and nearly unstoppable combos. They were "dominating the format." I can see the scepter doing this as well. i can see that scepeter being played in mono blue controll and never letting your opponent cast a spell.
if this isn't powerful. what is?
there were just as many ways to destory those other cards.
T
train
Guest
Actually there weren't...
There are more spells to get rid of artifacts, than enchantments...
And tolarian academy couldn't be countered - still can't be...
Memory jar was banned because it was in a format that could not handle it...
If you notice - banning/restricting is format/physically specific...
And those were individual cards that broke the game, survival is just as vulnerable as scepter is - and there was talk of unrestricting it, but testing has to determine the effects of such actions...
for the scepter - you have to have the mana to put it out, activate it, and the card to remove from hand that's a minimum of 4 cards, leaving you with 1 mana source, 3 cards in hand(probably 1 to 2 more mana), leaving 1-2 spells, then you sit there for a full turn, hoping to not watch the opponent have a quick answer......
the scepter's cost, for it's ability, and vulnerability, keeps it off the banned/restricted list...
I'll leave it at that...
I will however go on the record with that statement... another prophecy from train.
There are more spells to get rid of artifacts, than enchantments...
And tolarian academy couldn't be countered - still can't be...
Memory jar was banned because it was in a format that could not handle it...
If you notice - banning/restricting is format/physically specific...
And those were individual cards that broke the game, survival is just as vulnerable as scepter is - and there was talk of unrestricting it, but testing has to determine the effects of such actions...
for the scepter - you have to have the mana to put it out, activate it, and the card to remove from hand that's a minimum of 4 cards, leaving you with 1 mana source, 3 cards in hand(probably 1 to 2 more mana), leaving 1-2 spells, then you sit there for a full turn, hoping to not watch the opponent have a quick answer......
the scepter's cost, for it's ability, and vulnerability, keeps it off the banned/restricted list...
I'll leave it at that...
I will however go on the record with that statement... another prophecy from train.
Like I said...
The Scepter is perfectly costed (so far); I don't see it dominating. It's strong though.
Tolarian Academy is more like Affinity... now those may have to be watched for brokeness.
The Jar is all part of the Urz's block, one of the more stronger and broken ones made
Survival is probably too cheap, that's why it's on the list.
The Scepter is perfectly costed (so far); I don't see it dominating. It's strong though.
Tolarian Academy is more like Affinity... now those may have to be watched for brokeness.
The Jar is all part of the Urz's block, one of the more stronger and broken ones made
Survival is probably too cheap, that's why it's on the list.
B
BigBlue
Guest
A counter is only good if it's in your hand at the time...
IF his combo goes off and you don't already have the answer, you are done... no more untap, upkeep, . . .
So, don't jump down his throat about counter this or that...
I have played my counterspell decks enough times to know that you can and do run out of counters/bounce/whatever.
Attack with the Angel, take an extra turn, wash rinse repeat.
It's a cool 3 card combo.
Sure, it can be disrupted, but Offlines point is that ANYTHING can be disrupted. The deck of my namesake isn't undefeated because it can't always counter or bounce everything...
To address Train's side of things, he is correct. Good players would have disruptions in their decks for that combo - not specifically built against the combo, but because there are enough artifacts and enchantments out there which need to be dealt with.
Just trying to diffuse this age old question of ying vs yang...
Oh and as for the discussion of whether the Scepter will be banned or not... I don't think it'll be banned in any format, but I do suspect it will be restricted in type 1. If for no other reason than it unrestricts 2 of the power 9 cards and all the tutors.
IF his combo goes off and you don't already have the answer, you are done... no more untap, upkeep, . . .
So, don't jump down his throat about counter this or that...
I have played my counterspell decks enough times to know that you can and do run out of counters/bounce/whatever.
Attack with the Angel, take an extra turn, wash rinse repeat.
It's a cool 3 card combo.
Sure, it can be disrupted, but Offlines point is that ANYTHING can be disrupted. The deck of my namesake isn't undefeated because it can't always counter or bounce everything...
To address Train's side of things, he is correct. Good players would have disruptions in their decks for that combo - not specifically built against the combo, but because there are enough artifacts and enchantments out there which need to be dealt with.
Just trying to diffuse this age old question of ying vs yang...
Oh and as for the discussion of whether the Scepter will be banned or not... I don't think it'll be banned in any format, but I do suspect it will be restricted in type 1. If for no other reason than it unrestricts 2 of the power 9 cards and all the tutors.
T
Troll
Guest
Is the copy of the spell still the same color as the original spell or is it colorless?
Either way, here's a list of my favs to Imprint:
Swords to Plowshares
Tithe
Boomerang
Lightning Bolt
Molten Influence
Diabolic Edict
Eladammri's Call
Disenchant
Orim's Chant
Accumulated Knowledge
Whispers of the Muse
Terror
Dark Ritual
Pay No Heed
Blood Lust
Giant Growth
Kindle (or
Either way, here's a list of my favs to Imprint:
Swords to Plowshares
Tithe
Boomerang
Lightning Bolt
Molten Influence
Diabolic Edict
Eladammri's Call
Disenchant
Orim's Chant
Accumulated Knowledge
Whispers of the Muse
Terror
Dark Ritual
Pay No Heed
Blood Lust
Giant Growth
Kindle (or
S
space ranger
Guest
here's a couple of ole school cards that might be fun.
Mask of the mimic
brain storm
high tide( mana mana mana)
storm seeker,or sudden impact( empty your hand or take lots of damage)
corpse dance
songs of the dam
searing wind. (guess what you have one turn to live) I like this one the best 20 points in 2 turns of course you have to have the mana.
Just some thoughts and fun idea's.
Mask of the mimic
brain storm
high tide( mana mana mana)
storm seeker,or sudden impact( empty your hand or take lots of damage)
corpse dance
songs of the dam
searing wind. (guess what you have one turn to live) I like this one the best 20 points in 2 turns of course you have to have the mana.
Just some thoughts and fun idea's.
T
train
Guest
the Scepter has a Converted mana cost limit of 2 on the card that you remove...(also must be instant...)
So the wind, corpse dance is out...
but shallow grave is in...
So the wind, corpse dance is out...
but shallow grave is in...
S
space ranger
Guest
you are correct. Sorry Had brain freeze at that time.