Discussion in 'General CPA Stuff' started by Dune Echo, Dec 14, 2000.

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  1. Gizmo Composite: 1860

    1. I stand by my point. The articles of the CPA are, by and large, of a lower quality than most other Magic sites. I did not name any names, nor did I have anybody in particular in mind because who writes the articles goes in one ear and out the other unless I really like them.

    2. Several of you have said it is wrong to compare the CPA to Starcity etc...why? We are both Magic sites, and we both carry articles. Starcity has the luxury of paying people to write articles, we get them written because people want to write. No big diff. Starcity pays for quality which we can`t do, but we can at least stop the stuff that is just plain terrible from hitting the front page. First impressions count.

    3. I`m not bothered about language difficulties - if you`ve got something worth reading I`ll put up with poor punctuation and mispellings. if you`ve got nothing to say I don`t care if you even know how to use a semi-colon properly - I`m going to go somewhere else.

    4. What should an editor do? He should 1) Decide if an article is actually of any interest AS AN ARTICLE. 2) Do some basic spell correction (just run a checker over it, it takes 5 mins tops to do). 3) Provide feedback to the writer of an article if it not going to be posted, most of these would be along the lines of 'I think this is best posted as a topic on the Forums as it is really just the beginning of a debate', and 'Can you just explain a little more about this and this, please'.
    If editorial staff spent a little time coaching their prospective writers then pretty soon the standard of writing would increase tenfold as hey got the hang of what made a good article.

    Basically I don`t take the fact that this is a non-commercial site to be an excuse for carrying poor material, especially when most of the understrength material is only a minor rewrite away from being perfectly good.

    For instance I just read Ransac`s article (the X-Mas Shopping one that Baskil linked to), the main problem I have with it is that it is about 1,000 words too short. It says nothing, because there is nothing you can say in so little time - why was this article written? Dunno. What was it`s point? It had none. Was it funny then (if it ain`t relevent, make it funny)? Not really, lighthearted maybe, but not funny. So what did I get from reading it? Nothing.

    I`m sorry, flame me as much as you want, but this isn`t personal, and this isn`t about Ransac being a crap writer because from the article it`s obvious that isn`t the case (although I`m not sure about the use of 'fumigate' in the opening paragraph). This is simply about the fact the article serves no purpose. If it was appearing in 'Off Topic' or 'General Issues' as a topic then fine, but as a front page article?
    Sorry, no.

    I`m currently in a position of having 6 websites actively asking me to write for them, 3 of those sites are willing to pay between $25 and $75 per article. I should be taking advantage of this and posting a dozen articles per week to get the money (which explains most of Starcity`s crummy content quality) but as I haven`t got anything to say worth listening to, at least not worth putting into an article, I keep quiet.

    I think the people on CPA are perfectly capable of posting quality articles, it only takes a LITTLE more effort when they being written. It`s an obvious step to take.
  2. Gizmo Composite: 1860

    Okay, so in the spirit of openness I then went to read Baskil`s article. The idea of scouting out the best articles is a good one, but I almost died of laughter when I saw who was at number one.
    I wrote an article attacking the crappy analysis of Chicago immediately after I read Mason`s laughable report on what it meant for Type II. And in response to it going up on Starcity my mailbox has been flooded by PT regulars telling me that it was about time somebody stood up and mentioned that Starcity writers didn`t know their Magic ass from their Magic elbow.
    From my Inbox:
    "nice article. i was already getting really annoyed with some of those guys writing about the standard environment without having any clue whats going on.
    that sentence by mason you quoted (BR is great, spliter/charisma works etc) was one of the most ridiculous things i have ever read outside of theron martins articles ...


    Nuff said.
  3. Mundungu grumpier than ever

    Lankiller :
    I have been doomed by my poor english.

    I wanted to say that I found the Xmas article good.
    I really liked it, and also the idea of it.

    I am sorry if my writing made it sound like I sayd it was good to trash it !!! The intent was all the opposite

    I will be more careful next time I write.
  4. Mundungu grumpier than ever

  5. Baskil CPA Member

    One thing you have to realize about MeridianMagic, however, is that they use *safe* choices. If I wanted to, I could just link to the Pro reports, common sense strategy articles, and plug my own writing like Alex has done. Nothing against MeridianMagic, but they're as sterile as most of the writing they're linking to.

    [Edited by Baskil on 12-15-00 at 05:25 PM]
  6. theorgg Slob

    I feel that I should post here.

    An artical ,in my mind, Is anything that the author feels should be in the frontal part of the mind. Not the heavy to think about kind of thing people have varying opinions on, just the things that need to be said.

    With that statement, I'll admit I'm not the best wrighter. I can turn somone else's sentance into somthing that shines, but I cannot regularly wright articals that are as good as the best columest ever--Jamie Wakefield, the great. However, when I believe that somone might want to read somthing that I have to say, I will state it. How many comments have I gotten on my articals that were completly original? Two. One from Dune Echo and another from somone who couldn't even remember what site put the article up. Why do I still wright articles? I enjoy telling of my experiences that I've had and the time spent bamming sentances out on the keyboard in front of me.

    Can I say that Ransac's wrighting is total crap? No. I say that it is slightly humourus, not as much as it could be, but funny enough, and very spartic. He is direct and at least wanders around the point if not getting to it.

    Have good things been written by authors that arn't known? Yes. Search for "armageddon the cat's big day" with Magic Spider. I truly wish this guy could've started wrighting more than he did. Jamie Wakefield's style of wrighting is one that is sorly missed by many people, and this guy pulls it off wonderfully.

    Could Ransac do this? mabe. You just have to bear with him as he cuts his teeth. I couldn't type this in two minutes when I first started typing, those of you who remember the dojo's old forums will attest to that. I'd be lucky to wright two paragraphs in the time It's taken me to wright this.

    Things take time to evolve. when you see it happening, try to help it the best you can and see what happens.
  7. Apollo Bird Boy

    Boy... this thread exploded. I'll just post my general views on the subject:

    Baskil, if you really want to improve the quality of the writing, you need to privately contact the writer. All you do on your thread is say "this article sucks--it isn't entertaining or informative." Earlier in this thread, you gave some decent advice to Ransac regarding his article. Why didn't you do that on your article? Instead of saying it sucks, give advice! All you are doing is humiliating writers and encouraging them never to write again.

    You also state that anybody can write a good article if they just try. Well, the fact is, some people can't write as well as others, no matter how hard they try. I can write an essay in 20 minutes that my best friend could never compete with if he worked on it for days. Likewise, I don't write nearly as well as most other people in the Magic writing community (Zadok, Gizmo, Forsythe, Wakefield, and so on).

    Finally, as someone else said, the USA Today doesn't tell everyone how bad the articles in the New York times are. It is completely unprofessional for your website to do so.

    Gizmo: we can't critique articles. If we did, we wouldn't have any. The fact is, we can't compete with Starcity and the other sites. They pay people to come write. If we get a really good author, like Zadok, Starcity makes him an offer. We are completely dependent on the random submissions of others. A person that is not getting paid doesn't have the motivation to put a lot into the article (Ransac commented on this, above).

    I don't read 90% of the articles here. Fact is, they just aren't as good as other sites. But we don't have anything better. I do agree that we could use a notice telling people that the real aciton is in the forums.

    Final note: I thought that both of Ransac's articles would have been better off in the forums. I think most of the articles here would be better off in the forums. But like I said, if we didn't put them up, we'd have nothing.

  8. Multani Treetrunk Guy

    This thread is approaching a flame-war. Why? It's a one of those "self-sustaining" discussions. Chances are, if it get's any worse, Ed's gonna close it.

    Closing the thread does not solve the problem, and if a founder doesn't close this thread, then here's my opinion.

    This is all boils down to freedom of speech, and other rights.
    As I see it, I don't think criticizing an article is right, but nor is it wrong. It makes the person look childish, but by all means, they have the right to do it. Like others, they're voicing their opinion. And criticizing an article does not infringe the rights of others. However, I'd like to think the CPA is less strict and more relaxed. I said something similar on my thread in the 'Off Topic' Forum. Apparently, not everyone read it. :rolleyes: If you want to criticize a thread, make it sound positive. Don't insult it. Not everyone is perfect, and you probably wouldn't like people criticizing your article.

    Gizmo: I personally think are already enough tournament reports as it is. They're boring, and usually, I don't know what half the cards are or do. I think we need to have more casual articles. We don't need to know about strategies. The player should try to develop their own unique style of playing. You can find Tournie articles on any decent Magic site. You can only find casual articles here.
  9. Jaws10387 Hiding

    Its just freedom of speech. I (or anyone else) can say whatever they want. If you don't want to read an article then don't. Anything that isn't completely irrelivent should be posted on the CPA. It is only one article. If you don't like it it doesn't matter; someone else might like it.
  10. Zero New Member

    You tell em Multani!
  11. Neil Rigby New Member

    I think this thread has moved away from what it was originally aiming to show which was that someone from another site was 'disrespecting' the articles on the CPA with reference to one in particular (which you have to admit is not the best, but that is not the issue).
    Although I do not totally agree with what Gizmo has said because this IS a casual site (even though more and more lists on the casual decks/Variants forum seem to be for upcoming tournaments:) ), I do think that the articles on the front page are important in that they need to have content.
    I don't think that anyone is questioning anyone else's right to freedom of speech, but are mearly saying that when you come to write an article if when you have finished it it is shorter than you expected or doesn't have the content/focus that you were expecting post it onto the forums instead and maybe try again at writing a full article.
    Finally a comment on tournament reports. A lot of tournament reports are uninteresting, uninformative and of no relevance but anyone who has had chance to read any of Dan Paskins' (random english guy) tourny reports will know just how funny they can be.
  12. Chaos Turtle Demiurgic CPA Member, Admin Assistant

    Is it woth mentioning that I don't even bother looking at the front page here?

    My bookmark for this site leads directly to the forums. The reason is that I don't find very much up there except "Here's my favorite (card / set / format of old / etc)."

    Certainly, there are some good submisisons from time to time. I find out about them by looking at the "Latest Article Replies" at the top of the forums pages.

    I see a lot of words (in other threads) about "taking the next step" in the CPA's growth. Well... this is it. If our sub-community is ever to gain the respect of the larger Magic-playing population, then we must raise our standards for what we put on the front page.
  13. Duel Has Less Posts Than Spiderman

    oh, come on.

    Look, some guy at some site decided to blast your article. Fine. Did he offer any points to make it better? Yes. He said he wants to learn something from articles. You weren't really teaching anything. You didn't really try to teach him anything. So, he didn't like it because he wasn't looking for what you were providing. Don't go blasting him.
  14. Gizmo Composite: 1860

    I don`t recall saying a single word about tournament reports or tournament articles. Don`t out words in my mouth - if you are going to criticise what I say at least have the decency to make sure I said it first.
  15. Apollo Bird Boy

    Neil, would you give us a link to any of Mr. Paskins reports? I've never heard of him.
  16. Hetemti The Wide-Awake Nightmare

    My opinion:

    This is the Casual Players Alliance. Casual players talking about Magic in a casual way. The "feature" articles are simply topics too large to merely be posted here on the boards. They are monologues intended by the author to present his/her views on a certain subject. Be it tournament reports, exorbanant card prices, or how sexy the Keldon Warlord is, the articles are just what the author wants to tell the rest of the members of the Casual Players.

    If you don't like personal articles, don't read the articles.
    If you don't like it when someone misspells Nubachadnazahr or Sharazad or Keszerdix, don't read the articles.
    If you don't like the articles, don't read the articles.

    Is that so complex? No harder than deciding if a chad is dimpled or not.

    (I can make fun, I'm in Florida.)
  17. Istanbul Sucker MCs call me sire.

    Well, for what it's worth, I'm trying to be a little more selective in what I put on the main page and how I edit it. Of the two articles I got to today, I mailed one of the writers telling him that it was better posted in the forums, and the other had about two humorous-but-irrelevant paragraphs cut.
  18. DÛke Memento Mori

    ...Istanbul, you are NOT doing a good job at it. One of those articles that he "cut" was mine...NOT only was it an actual post, but, I got a PM from TheOrgg, who is one of the very respected moderators of the CPA, telling me that THAT article of mine, IF revised, should be put in the front page for everyone to see, and I kind of agree with him.

    I almost can BET on it, that if that article was in the front page, it would be nice for you people to see. It is a great article, and I think it could help show those who just "read" the front page that the CPA DOES understand...(or at least some of us do).
  19. Zadok001 CPA Founder, Greater Good

    Geez, take a day off from moderating to play in the most amazingly casual tourney of my life... Wow.

    Ok, first things first: I don't like flames. No one likes flames. I've gotten three separate PMs from three separate people asking me to close this thread _down_ before it gets any worse.

    I'm not going to.



    Because I think the flames are beginning to weaken, and there's no point in closing an article unless it is still hot. So, please don't flame any MORE on this thread, or I will close it without too much hesitation. :) Please be nice.

    Moving on, the point at hand. I've spent most of my life leaping from one piece of writing to the next, from school assignment to journals to psuedonym writing on major editorial websites, to Magic opinion writing, to short stories, to poetry, every kind of writing imaginable. First person, third person, hell, even second person! I write a LOT. I like writing, and I love writing about Magic, so I'll continue to do it.

    I write because I like writing, and I like reading.

    Unfortunately, there are some things that aren't worth reading. That's life, some writing just stinks. :) That writing is usually easily avoided. Ransac's work is not, repeat NOT that type of writing.

    Ransac's articles are not brilliant.

    Ransac's articles are not overly thought-provoking.

    Ransac's articles are not long.

    But they _could_ be. That only takes time and thought. Anyone can write, it's just a matter of spending time with what they write. If you don't think an article is overly interesting, don't submit it. (I have ~20 articles on my hard drive, all finished, that have never seen the light of day 'cause I don't think they're worth putting up.) Spend a bit more time with it, and it'll get to be much, much better. That's not meant to be direct critisism, but rather a suggestion of a possible improvement.

    Moving on!

    I don't believe Baskil did anything wrong by writing what he did. The internet is an open forum. Baskil wrote what he believes, and I truly respect that. I do think some constructive criticism would have been nice, but not entirely nessesary. I don't read every article on any site - If it doesn't get my attention, I tend to go elsewhere pretty quickly.

    So be it. Everyone has a right to an open forum, use it as you will. Please, though, pick and choose what to post as an article and what to post as a thread. Articles shouldn't be less than a page long, if at all avoidable.

    And please, for the love of God, stop the flames!
  20. Hetemti The Wide-Awake Nightmare

    Isty cut your article. SO WHAT?! Cope with it.
    I've worked as chief editor for a school newspaper. Guess what, sometimes you gotta ax stuff. Why? It's the editor's frikkin' JOB. It's nothing personal. It could be anything...random guy on the street, veteran columnist, granny's cookie recipe, it doesn't matter. If it gets the ax, it gets the ax.
    If you don't like that fact, post the article in the forums, or start your own site and post it there, but don't tell Isty how to do his dang job.
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