Discussion in 'General CPA Stuff' started by Dune Echo, Dec 14, 2000.

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  1. Gerode Becoming a Lurker Again

    Also, didn't Baskil write some articles for us?
    Did he just say his articles were bad in that last sentence?
  2. Baskil CPA Member

    I'd like to thank you all for proving my point.

    Ponder this, before you go ban me or whatever you plan on doing:

    Roger Ebert gets paid to write reviews of film. Lets say he sees a movie he doesn't like. Do you think he's going to not write a review for it? Think about it.

    Being critical of other people's work is important, for a few reasons.
    1. It warns people who think like the reviewer that they might want to spend their time elsewhere.
    2. It lets the writer (who usually only get fluff " I like your article" speeches) that there might be some things wrong with his writing.

    Am I perfect? By no means. Sometimes critics are just as terrible as the work they are critical of.
    (Even Ebert wrote a crap movie: Beyond the Valley of the Dolls)

    The purpose of the site is to write with a little pepper, and a lot of salt. If we wrote bland articles, I doubt you'd be talking about how boring our site it.

    Read the site if you want, or don't. I doubt Dan and I will lose any sleep over it.

    -Random editor

    -Random famous columnist

    -another random columnist

    -yet another random colunist

    -random CPA admin

    [Edited by Baskil on 12-14-00 at 10:21 PM]
  3. Almindhra Magic's Bitch

    What did I ever do to you, boy??!!!...
  4. Baskil CPA Member

    Another quick thing
    I have not written articles for this site.
    And there *are* articles worth reading (Houts, Rare Earths, DUke's stuff)on the front page. Even if they are rare.
  5. DÛke Memento Mori

    ...Baskil, I know exactly what you're saying, and I think that you're, in a way, right. Though, it is harsh, a bit, to say such things about one of our very important CPA members (or so I think).
    I have nothing against you, Baskil, but it's not fair to judge someone like that, even if you have to...like you stated. It's not fair to say which sites *you* like best, I am NOBODY, but I don't think you're somebody either. So, since I come from the same species as you do, I think I have the right to say that, KEEP stating the top articles, but, if you want to say someone or something is bad, please have other, supportive point of views with you. I hope you didn't expect us to be *happy* about that article...because we were bound to find it, now or later...

    Side note, to Almindhra: you have not done anything to me. I was hoping you take that as a joke...I'm just not using smilies to express happiness, because my stupid head FINALLY understands why you dislike them so much: they freakin' redundant.
  6. Baskil CPA Member

    If someone is unknowingly doing something wrong, and you do not speak up, you are just as liable, in my opinion. If you knew me IRL, you would know that I pull no punches and that I am a jackass. That is the reason I was asked to do the list in the first place. My editor gives me carte blanche in my list, and apparently has no problem with what I'm doing. Otherwise, I wouldn't be writing the peice, or getting offers to write similar peices elsewhere.

    If I sat back and didn't comment on people's writing, would it get any better? Probably, but they wouldn't be aware of it happening.

    If I had just a Top 10 list, with complementary reacharounds for the writers, no one would reply to it, it would just get lost in the fray.


    "The road of good intentions is paved with Hell."
    -Spencer Ante
  7. Ura Feline Lord of the Pit

    Just one thing I'd like to say in response.

    Theres one MAJOR difference between Roger Ebert rating movies and you rating articles.
    People have to PAY to see movies and want to know if a movie isn't worth paying the $7 to get in and see or paying the $5 to rent when it comes out.
    No one has to pay to read articles and they certainly aren't forced to either.

    The second thing I'd add is that articles, like the one written by Ransac, is based on personal opinion, not statistics or reports or some new super tech. He just gave an honest opinion in his article, there is nothing wrong with that. By saying that his article is of some of the worst on the net, its like saying his opinion is of the worst on the net, and at least to me, thats just wrong.

    If you really want to say something is bad, do it for a good reason, like the person who obviously has no clue what they're talking about or its jibberish that has no point to it. Not stuff based on personal opinion where there is no right or wrong.

    ok, so I said three things insted, darn. ;)
  8. Baskil CPA Member

    "If you really want to say something is bad, do it for a good reason, like the person who obviously has no clue what they're talking about or its jibberish that has no point to it"

    That last part is exactly why he was on the list. Not because of who he is or what he is.

    The Rath article was, essentially, 200 words of nonsense. Informative? Not really. Entertaining? If 150 of those words are card names, chances are it isn't entertaining. Masturbatory? Yep.

    That sort of writing belongs on these boards, it shouldn't be the first thing people see when the log on.

    I wonder how many potential members went away after reading some of those articles.
  9. Istanbul Sucker MCs call me sire.


    [excessively (?) vitriolic stuff deleted]

    One would think that someone who comes to the CPA, CASUAL Players' Alliance, would realize that not every article has to dig deep and hard into the underlying issues of the latest tournament scene.
  10. Ura Feline Lord of the Pit

    Perhaps it should have been on the boards, perhaps not. We've had poetry on the front page as well, I found it to be neither informative or entertaining. (not cause it was bad, I just don't enjoy poetry)

    Last time I checked opinions aren't required to be informative and they aren't meant to entertain anyone. They're just said because thats what a person thinks.
    Is Ransac's skill in writing whats lacking, because thats how it sounds by what your judging the article on. If that is the case, then yes, he isn't by any means a fantastic new york times level of writer and there is room for improvement in his skills.
    But he gave an honest opinion regardless of his writing quality. We've had other articles of similar fasion with people talking about why they like/love something.

    If this is the case of your low rating, perhaps next time you'll be more clear about why you think its bad. Rather then say the content was bad because of what it was about, say its bad because its presented poorly and in garbled stature.
  11. Landkiller CPA Menace

    I think, what you were doing is tantamount to talking behind someone's back.

    Did you let Ransac know what you thought before hand? You didn't reply to the article, and I'll bet you didn't PM or email Ransac either. And you probably didn't do that for anyone on your list.

    If you just let them know your opinion, wouldn't that serve the purpose of improving writing skills? For what possible reason would you inform the public about them, except to get attention for yourself?

    Good writing and bad writing is completely subjective. COMPLETELY. Complete sentences do not make a good writer. Nor does grammer, punctuation, clarity of thought, etc. No factor makes a good writer, except one : People like the writer.

    Magic Writing is strange. There are strategy articles, rumor articles, humor articles, story articles, metagame articles, and a hundred more categories.

    In not all of these categories do English Majors have a monopoly. Indeed, some articles are written by 13 year olds on this site. They are written to share the writer's viewpoint, opinion, knowledge, etc. These articles or any articles have a variety of quality. But, a person who writes an article enriches the community, much more than a person who does not write an article.

    So, if an article is poorly written from a technical standpoint, is that really good substance for another article? No. You don't want to insult someone, when you can help them. After all, they are contributors too, and every one can do something important if they learn how. Nobody needs a negative influence. While you continue to write these weekly updates including a negative aspect, I for one will boycott CCGPrime, although in my case that's irrelevant. Since I will be involuntarily boycotting the internet for a few months at least.

    I hate hardasses. I'll show them what's up.

    <Bad Analogy Warning> <Hey, this isn't the first bad analogy on this conversation, though>
    You don't see rival newspapers publishing Worst Ten Major American Newspaper lists, do you? Unprofessional, maybe?
  12. Gizmo Composite: 1860

    Sorry but I have to agree with his basic point. I`m not naming names, or pointing to articles in particular, but I do think that there should be some editorial discretion about what becomes an article for the CPA. I think, basically, we should be running one per day - and then make it a good one. Many of the posts that are 'articles' would be much better as Forum topics, or of no interest at all.
    We need 'content', as in what Ferret describes:
  13. Major Crime New Member

    Did you (Baskil) reply to the article when it went up at all, or did you wait until you needed something to fill up your own word quota?

    If you really thought the article needed reworking you should tell the writer straight off to their face, not shout it out to the whole Net. These is why there is a reply button on the articles, it's to stop shouting wars like this one.

    The way you worded it (from the quotes I've seen) you seem to have put this site down because of the one article.

    Take a deep breath, count to ten then reply. I'm not around to Monday, so there be no fast come backs.
  14. Mundungu grumpier than ever

    Giz : I agree on what you say, but that does not apply to the CPA.

    Sure, sites like starcicty or the Dojo get dozens of submissions a day. Sure they have to keep a standard. They are big sites, and they are commercial sites.

    I remember a time when the CPA had maybe one article a WEEK. at best.

    At this stage, whatever gets submitted, short of absurd flaming or rants, probably makes it on the front page.

    We have to encourage all to write. THEN, when the volume is there, can we become selective.

    Most of our best writers, including you, write for other sites. Zadok wrote here first then was taken by starcity etc ...

    The CPA is a place where people can voice their opinion. And it is great that with our small size, we get so many people involved.

    ccgprime also trashed the article about Xmas gifts.
    I found it very good actually. And yes it should be on the first page of the CPA, because it has to do with the magic community in general.

    I prefer to see articles more the like of Ransac's than tournaments reports.
    If I want the latest tech, I know where to go.

    The CPA is "the other" site.

    Once again I hope I was clear in my poorly written 3d language that is english.
  15. Mundungu grumpier than ever

    A word to the original discussion.

    Yes it is the Baskil's right to do what he does, but in a sense, he broke the raison d'etre of the CPA, roaming the boards, then stabbing in the back.

    He could have warned or at least inform Ransac that he would make a review, bad or not.

    We should not have had to discover it this way.
  16. Gizmo Composite: 1860

    I just think that the current CPA front page is often a very bad advert for us. It probably turns away more than it attracts. We should have fewer, but better, articles. It isn`t that hard to write a good article, but many on the CPA are too short and don`t really go into any depth.
    I think we should also do something to point out that the Forums are where it all happens, as opposed to most other Magic sites where the Forums are simply tacked on the end.
  17. Gizmo Composite: 1860

    This isn`t a 'bad english' question as far as I`m concerned (that should be the job of the editors to clean up) it`s a 'lack of anything to say' question.
  18. Ransac CPA Trash Man


    All right!!!! I admit it. I'm not a good writer! I almost flunked ALL my english classes! I got a 440 on the SAT verbal! That and before I head of to my actual college, I'm going to take courses on how to write essays!!!!

    But, people(not all of you, just the ones critisizing me), the point of an article is not always to "inform" the reader. In a newpaper, absolutely to inform. On an internet informatory site (i.e. the articles on yahoo), most likely. But, remember, they get PAID. I didn't walk in here and say I'm going to write articles. I didn't say you WILL like them and I WILL get gratuitous responses. Shucks, I like to think of this site as a way to let people know how I feel about certain topics!

    But, to outright say that I "lack anything to say" is just downright insulting! I think, after reviewing my responses to this, that I have PLENTY to say. This site, regardless out what you might think, ISN'T USA Today. It's the CPA, designed for people who play magic and other fun games let others know what they think. I hope that this site doesn't turn into a site that is "hardcore tournament" standard. If this site just has nothing to do but whine about how they lost games, or say they were cheated, or thrive over how Pro Tour Players win, I will, and I know other that would, too, just stop coming to this site all together.

    One more thing. To publicly critisize my "work" on ccgprime is just childish. I spend a long time thinking about what to say and if people like me will like it, because, let's face it, I'm not going to write anything that I wouldn't read myself.

    Ransac, writing his longest post ever

    P.S. Dune Echo, or Baskil, you remind me of that whining, discriminative mayor from "The Grinch"
  19. Ransac CPA Trash Man

    I appreciate a whole lot what you guys supporting me are saying.

    Ransac, cpa trash man
  20. Landkiller CPA Menace

    Mundungu : Actually, I found the X-Mas article interesting and informative, as I haven't seen any written material on that subject yet. Although it was mostly common sense, and I'd already told the parents to find Invasion Packs. But, it was different. That counts for a lot. I'd rather not read the same old arguments on ID's or any other issue, anyway.

    Hmmm...I agree. The CPA needs to put the forums a little more prominently, or they probably only spread by word of mouth. But, maybe that's a good thing. There seems to be a good crowd here, why mess with a good thing? The mtgnews crowd bites.

    Gizmo : Maybe the articles do turn one off. But, there really aren't top notch writers here. This isn't primarily a strategy site, anyway. For classy writing, people go to StarCity. Mindripper and the Dojo have a slightly lower quality group of writers, and focus on the game more. This, to me, is a place where everyone can speak out. It's a group where everyone shares an equal position, regardless of age, DCI rating, or annual salary. Any interesting articles should make the front page.

    For interesting conversation about current events, random stuff, and just messing about, go here. Also, the Best place to do decklists. On the Starcity boards, I NEVER got a response.

    Somehow, a mix of random articles is perfect. In my opinion, of course. Low quality stuff, in content requires a rejection. Low quality content is defined as - in my opinion - it says something you don't care about. It doesn't accomplish whatever objectives of communication the writer had. Whatever they may be.

    Low quality writing style - as opposed to low quality grammer and spelling, is a problem. As long as the writing is good enough, we can accept it. As long as it still accomplishes the objective.

    Low quality grammer or spelling is another issue. This would be best resolved by either editing, or a rejection, along with a request to rewrite the article.
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