Discussion in 'General CPA Stuff' started by Oversoul, Oct 29, 2004.
I'm just keeping you on your toes.
At this point, I think that the top 25 for each category would suit my purposes. I've already trimmed black a bit thanks to DÛke, but I've still got quite a bit more cutting to do. Artifacts could use some more suggestions still.
If you have any suggestions that you think deserve to be in the top 25 of any category but are not already somewhere in the first post on this thread, could you please inform me?
Okay, who wants to help cut green down some?
Where is mountain goat on this list??? I don't need your anti goat pro-dragon agendas!
Okay, okay, you've caught me. But you must understand how truly appealing the dragon platform is...
I like the top 25 idea. For my green and artifact suggestions I will trim down the heavy qtys specifically to the high-quality guys.
Onwards to green (and artifact)...
Green: (I'd consider doing a top 40 or 50 for green, b/c it easily has the best creatures in Magic in regards to overall abilities)
Silvos, Rogue Elemental
Tornado Elemental (I don't think he's top 25, but I do like him more than Thorn Elemental)
Artifact: (Just for the record, I'm a HUGE Mindless Automaton fan. It fits very easily into many different types of builds)
Clockwork Dragon (underrated)
Draco (his high CC lends itself to many alternative decktypes)
Myr Retriever (which IMO is better than Junk Diver)
Steel Golem (Grid Monitor potentially as well)
Do you want people's individual top-25 lists?
is CHK included?
suq ata lancer
kumano master yamabushi
sakura tribe elder
Yes, COK is included...
Okay Oversoul, of your compiled list, can you make a "Top 10" from each color?
I would think that the criteria could be this:
1.) A stand alone creature that would be good in any generic color appropiate deck (not a situational creature like Trinket Mage, because on it's own, it's weak).
2.) Mana Cost efficient.
3.) Multi-tasked creatures ie Masticore not only shoots creatures but regenerates, too.
4.) Is it a "BAM!" card, you know, one that immediately changes the game dynamics as soon as it hits the table.
5.) "Cha-Ching!", is it a $$$MONEY$$$ card.
Here's a ~Short List~
Avatar of Woe or Whoa!
Serendib Efreet (The BLUE one)
Rofellos, Llanowar Emmissary
I was considering top ten. I think a larger number would be more adequate for my purposes though...
I was thinking of 50, but it seemed much too large and it gets into creatures that simply aren't as good.
25 is the plan for now though, so why make a top ten?
The first list on this thread is good. Is there a specific format for this? Are you constantly updating the first post of this thread?
I agree with cards like Scapelexis. Scapelexis does one thing and it does it very well. He was a absolute BEAST in JU/JU/JU draft at the Prerelease against the guy that took all the Giant Warthogs and Suntail Hawks (5 of each, 40 card deck, basic Forests and Plains, one hit kill). He's a finisher and I feel that he should kill in about 6 swings.
You got some of the obscure utility creatures on there too, like Keldon Champion, Radiant's Dragoons, and Ticking Gnomes.
I think the deck-idea creatures can be left off this list. You don't put Endless Wurm into a green deck or even a fattie deck; you build a deck around Endless Wurm. Even so, Auratog is way better so he should cover the enchantment happy creatures. Wall of Mulch is good, but Wall of Blossoms is better at doing the same thing. I hope you understand.
Just off the top of my head:
There are bad guys on your list like
Defiant Elf (???)
Gamekeeper - I used him once, but there are far better things to do in green like get more mana, draw more cards, or search for fat. Natural Order is the best of these, and this creature doesn't deserve mention.
Noble Panther - G/W has WAY better options for 3 drops it's not funny, but I like me some Fleetfoot Panther...
Draco - This guy is just bad. I've played with him lots of times and he's far worse than just a simple Ordered Migration. Getting all the basic land in play is not easy, but just think of all the creatures you can play with WUBRG (Bringer, Spiritmonger, Ordered Migration, Sliver Queen...). Draco is a combo piece
Myr Retriever > Junk Diver
Thran Golem - too conditional
Endless Wurm - conditional
Metathran Elite - Phantom Warrior is better, but this ability isn't really relevant except for specialized Sigil of Sleep decks.
Defender of Chaos/Order - I just don't like these guys. Instant creatures should impact the table like Simian Grunts, Caller of the Claw, or Masako the Humorless.
Arc-Slogger (!) - 4th best creature in Standard after Eternal Witness, Arcbound Ravager, and Disciple of the Vault
Shivan Hellkite - multiplayer wrecking ball, controls the table
Two-Headed Dragon - just plain better than Shivan Dragon
Thrull Surgeon - utility creature with no real parallel; strong to recur against control; slightly clashes with Nezumi Shortfang in function
First off, I haven't been giving this little project enough attention now, so it's a good thing you responded to it. Yes, the list is being updated, although not "constantly." Anyway...
Defiant Elf: I've never heard of this creature and I assume that I got the name confused with Taunting Elf (I already removed it from the list, since I've never even heard of it).
Gamekeeper: Green has a lot of cutting to be done. When I get around to it, I suppose that this guy won't make the top 25, but I don't know why you singled him out. He is actually quite good.
Noble Panther: Gold is pretty close to being a list of 25, which is what I want to eventually get all of these lists down to. I will not be cutting ANYTHING from gold until the final cuts. If you think that there are some other gold creatures that are particularly better and deserve to be on the list above Panther (but aren't there) please mention them.
Draco: Artifacts are my lowest category. Also, as you mentioned he is a combo piece. Creatures that are used for purposes other than attacking and blocking will make the list on merit of their other abilities. Draco has the highest mana cost of any card in the
entire game and many cards rely on the size of the number in the upper right corner.
Myr Retriever > Junk Diver: Um, that's been said already on this thread. Do you mean that Junk Diver should be cut?
Thran Golem: A simple creature enchantment (any creature enchantment) makes him into a 5/5 flying, first-striking, trampler. He's not a bad deal. Sure, he's not Masticore either, but not everything on the list is. With how small my artifact category is, he really does stand to make the top 25. What would you like to see replace him?
Endless Wurm: I've seen this creature work very well with Rancor on several occasions, but it occurs to me that Auratog is a lot better at that job anyway. I will probably cut Wurm soon.
Metathran Elite: He probably won't make it past my next cut of blue.
Defender dudes: I've never had a liking for these guys. They were suggested by someone else and I added them. They aren't horrible, but I'll probably cut them soon too.
Arc Slogger: You've got to be kidding me. I hope I never have to see another Arc Slogger again. I have some sort of irrational hatred of this creature. Also, it's not very good.
Disciple of the Vault: Not missing. Seriously, he was there already.
Shivan Hellkite: He is being added presently.
Two-Headed Dragon: Eh. I will add it, but I don't know how long it will stay up there. It isn't really better than Shivan Dragon either.
Rorix: Well, it does have haste. Okay, added.
Sakura something: Sorry, but I don't know what that is. My Appr. only goes up to 5th Dawn and maybe I'll update it someday, but that guy is from COK and I don't have the slightest idea what it does.
Thrull Surgeon: I've always liked it, but it never really pays off well enough. I will add it, but again, I don't know that it will do much but just get cut when I finally go through this and separate the wheat from the chaff...
Thanks. I'll be sure to get to cutting these lists down soon. Oh, and what is that Sakura thing anyway?
Sakura, Tribe Elder
Ooh, that is pretty good. I'll add it.
Hmmm... shall I make the real list now? Anybody who dismisses Arc Slogger as 'not very good' and would include Initiates Of The Ebon Hand is obviously a bit wrong in the head.
Back in a bit with a real list of good creatures... this might take a while.
Ali From Cairo
Siege Gang Commander
Squee, Goblin Nabob
Starke Of Rath
Suq Ata Lancer
Avatar Of Woe
Braids, Cabal Minion
Evil Eye Of Orms-By-Gore
Knight Of Stromgald
Minion Of Leshrac
Order Of The Ebon Hand
Priest Of Yawgmoth
Will O The Wisp
Not true at all. I have an Air Elemental - would you rather have the base 4/4 or the base 5/5? Same is true for if I'm holding two shocks, or a Prophetic Bolt, or... or... or... Shivvie's basic fatness is more important than subtelties of the abilities. When you get either in play you'e rocking hard, and Shivvie is the one most likely to stay in play, which is what's important.
Shivan Dragon > Two-Headed Dragon
And what is so great about Arc Slogger?
Hey Oversoul, you can get the CHK Apprentice patch here
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