Good creatures again (this time with actual list)

[Oversoul]

Okay, I managed to organize my list from the other thread, so I'm posting it. It's not 277 cards right now. Interestingly enough, I was able to come up with a lot of green creatures. Red is a bit behind the other colors. The one that surprised me the most: the artifacts. I must have really neglected that category. Gold is small, but that is to be expected.

Now that people can physically see my list, they can better tell what I've left out. If you think that something not on the list deserves to be there, please post it here.

You could also give me suggestions for what to cut, although I'm not quite to that point yet. Thanks in advance.

White: 47
Academy Rector
Akroma, Angel of Wrath
Auratog
Auriok Salvagers
Avenging Angel
Benalish Knight
Blinding Angel
Defender en-Vec
Defender of Law
Eternal Dragon
Exalted Angel
False Prophet
Knight of Dawn
Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero
Mageta the Lion
Master Decoy
Monk Realist
Mother of Runes
Order of Leitbur
Order of the White Shield
Paladin en-Vec
Peacekeeper
Preacher
Pristine Angel
Radiant's Dragoons
Ramosian Sergeant
Reya Dawnbringer
Savannah Lions
Serra Angel
Serra Avatar
Shaman en-Kor
Silver Knight
Soltari Champion
Soltari Monk
Soltari Priest
Soltari Visionary
Soul Warden
Suntail Hawk
Talon Sliver
Tireless Tribe
Voice of All
Wall of Glare
Warrior en-Kor
Weathered Wayfarer
Welkin Hawk
Whipcorder
White Knight

Blue: 40
Arcanis the Omnipotent
Broodstar
Clone
Cloud of Faeries
Ertai, Wizard Adept
Flying Men
Glacial Wall
Gilded Drake
Man-o'-War
Merfolk Looter
Metathran Elite
Morphling
Old Man of the Sea
Ophidian
Palinchron
Peregrine Drake
Rainbow Efreet
Raven Familiar
Raven Guild Master
Rayne, Academy Chancellor
River Merfolk
Rootwater Thief
Scalpelexis
Scrivener
Seasinger
Serendib Efreet
Spiketail Hatchling
Temporal Adept
Thieving Magpie
Time Elemental
Tradewind Rider
Trinket Mage
Vedalken Archmage
Vesuvan Doppelganger
Volrath's Shapeshifter
Wall of Souls
Waterfront Bouncer
Winged Sliver
Wonder

Black: 46
Abyssal Gatekeeper
Avatar of Woe
Black Knight
Bone Shredder
Braids, Cabal Minion
Carnophage
Crypt Rats
Dauthi Marauder
Dauthi Slayer
Dauthi Warlord
Disciple of the Vault
Erg Raiders
Flesh Reaver
Fog of Gnats
Guardian Beast
Hidden Horror
Highway Robber
Hypnotic Specter
Juzam Djinn
Kjeldoran Dead
Knight of Stromgald
Lurking Evil
Nantuko Husk
Nantuko Shade
Nekrataal
Nether Spirit
Order of the Ebon Hand
Phyrexian Ghoul
Phyrexian Negator
Phyrexian Plaguelord
Phyrexian Scuta
Plague Spitter
Priest of Gix
Ravenous Rats
Rotlung Reanimator
Skittering Horror
Skittering Skirge
Sleeper Agent
Spined Fluke
Spirit of the Night
Thrashing Wumpus
Thrull Surgeon
Visara the Dreadful
Will-o'-the-Wisp
Withered Wretch

Red: 43
Ali from Cairo
Anarchist
Ancient Hydra
Anger
Atog
Avalanche Riders
Avatar of Fury
Balduvian Horde
Ball Lightning
Blistering Firecat
Bloodshot Cyclops
Covetous Dragon
Crater Hellion
Defender of Chaos
Flametongue Kavu
Goblin Cadets
Goblin Lackey
Goblin Piledriver
Goblin Recruiter
Goblin Ringleader
Goblin Warchief
Goblin Welder
Gorilla Shaman
Grim Lavamancer
Jackal Pup
Keldon Champion
Kird Ape
Lightning Dragon
Megatog
Mogg Fanatic
Mogg Flunkies
Rathi Dragon
Roc of Kher Ridges
Rorix Bladewing
Shard Phoenix
Shivan Dragon
Shivan Hellkite
Siege-Gang Commander
Skizzik
Squee, Goblin Nabob
Thundermare
Varchild's War-Riders
Worldgorger Dragon

Green: 65
Argothian Enchantress
Argothian Wurm
Arrogant Wurm
Avatar of Might
Basking Rootwalla
Battlefield Scrounger
Birds of Paradise
Blastoderm
Caller of the Claw
Deranged Hermit
Druid Lyrist
Elvish Lyrist
Elvish Piper
Elvish Spirit Guide
Endless Wurm
Erhnam Djinn
Eternal Witness
Forgotten Ancient
Fyndhorn Elves
Gamekeeper
Genesis
Ghazban Ogre
Gigapede
Gurzigost
Harvest Wurm
Hermit Druid
Killer Bees
Krosan Tusker
Llanowar Elves
Muscle Sliver
Priest of Titania
Quirion Dryad
Quirion Elves
Quirion Ranger
Ravenous Baloth
Rhox
River Boa
Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
Sakura-Tribe Elder
Simian Grunts
Spike Feeder
Spike Weaver
Spore Frog
Symbiotic Wurm
Taunting Elf
Thorn Elemental
Timberwatch Elf
Tinder Wall
Uktabi Orangutan
Verdant Force
Verduran Enchantress
Vine Dryad
Viridian Shaman
Viridian Zealot
Wall of Blossoms
Wall of Roots
Weatherseed Treefolk
Wellwisher
Wild Dogs
Wild Mongrel
Wirewood Channeler
Wirewood Herald
Wirewood Hivemaster
Xantid Swarm
Yavimaya Elder
Yavimaya Enchantress

Gold: 29
Anurid Brushhopper
Cavern Harpy
Crosis, the Purger
Crystalline Sliver
Darigaaz, the Igniter
Draco
Dromar, the Banisher
Fleetfoot Panther
Frenetic Efreet
Gaea's Skyfolk
Hibernation Sliver
Iridescent Angel
Jungle Barrier
Lightning Angel
Meddling Mage
Mystic Enforcer
Mystic Snake
Nicol Bolas
Noble Panther
Phantom Nishoba
Psychatog
Rith, the Awakener
Shadowmage Infiltrator
Shivan Wurm
Sliver Queen
Spiritmonger
Treva, the Renewer
Victual Sliver

Artifact: 26
Arcbound Ravager
Bosh, Iron Golem
Bottle Gnomes
Darksteel Colossus
Draco
Duplicant
Juggernaut
Junk Diver
Karn, Silver Golem
Masticore
Metalworker
Mindless Automaton
Myr Enforcer
Myr Retriever
Ornithopter
Phyrexian Colossus
Phyrexian Dreadnought
Phyrexian Walker
Platinum Angel
Razormane Masticore
Shield Sphere
Solemn Simulacrum
Su-Chi
Sundering Titan
Thran Golem
Ticking Gnomes

Oh, I split them up by color manually. My method was to go through the list on MS Word and label each creature with a number of 1-7 that would correspond to a category, then sort the list. It is quite likely that I made an error of some sort. If you catch it, or have some means of organizing this list which is more efficient than my horrible method and could reorganize them for me, that would be appreciated.

 

[Reverend Love]

The Invasion dragons are some good Gold fatties.

 

[DÛke]

Black: 48

Abyssal Gatekeeper
Apprentice Necromancer
Avatar of Woe
Black Knight
Bone Shredder
Braids, Cabal Minion
Carnophage
Crypt Rats
Dauthi Marauder
Dauthi Slayer
Dauthi Warlord
Disciple of the Vault
Erg Raiders
Flesh Reaver
Fog of Gnats
Guardian Beast
Hidden Horror
Highway Robber
Hypnotic Specter
Initiates of the Ebon Hand
Juzam Djinn
Kjeldoran Dead
Knight of Dusk
Knight of Stromgald
Minion of the Wastes
Nantuko Husk
Nantuko Shade
Nekrataal
Nether Spirit
Order of the Ebon Hand
Phyrexian Ghoul
Phyrexian Negator
Phyrexian Plaguelord
Phyrexian Scuta
Plague Spitter
Priest of Gix
Rotlung Reanimator
Sengir Vampire
Skittering Horror
Sleeper Agent
Slinking Skirge
Spined Fluke
Spirit of the Night
Thrashing Wumpus
Visara the Dreadful
Will-o'-the-Wisp
Withered Wretch

Subtract:
- Abyssal Gatekeeper
- Apprentice Necromancer
- Knight of Dusk
- Minion of the Wastes
- Sleeper Agent
- Spined Fluke
- Spirit of the Night

Add:
+ Ravenous Rats
+ Skittering Skirge

Not sure what these do and/or if they should be in the list:
? Slinking Skirge
? Dauthi Warlord
? Disciple of the Vault
? Visara the Dreadful
? Order of the Ebon Hand
? Nantuko Husk
? Knight of Stromgald

 

[Chaos Turtle]

Actually, I'd get rid of Initiates of the Ebon Hand way before I'd lose Abyssal Gatekeeper.

And you're missing Glacial Wall in blue. For shame...

 

[Oversoul]

Chaos Turtle: Hmm, I don't recall ever using Glacial Wall. Isn't it just a plain old blocker with no abilities? Oh well, I'm adding it for now.

DÛke: I like some of your additions, but subtracting Apprentice Necromancer, Abyssal Gatekeeper, and Spirit of the Night go against my experience with those guys. I'll have to get back to you on all of this...

RL: I hate those dragons, but a friend did build decks based around each of them back in the day, and they were kinda cool. Also, there's a shortage of good gold creatures. They're all added.

 

[DÛke]

See, I can understand Abyssal Gatekeeper; you can also convince me in regards to Spirit of the Night. But...Apprentice Necromancer?...

 

[Oversoul]

Well, this wasn't my sole reason for considering Spirit of the Night, but I'd like to point out this deck which ran Spirit of the Night and to a great degree of success.

Now on Apprentice Necromancer...

What are you basing your misgivings on (I do think that they are very reasonable misgivings too, but I just want to be sure I fully understand you)? Do you consider Shallow Grave to not be a great effect, or is it the creature form, which requires the use of another mana and a turn to lose summoning sickness?

Anyway, I'm subtracting Minion of the Wastes and Knight of Dusk right now. They aren't as strong as the others and I know that they would be among the first to go.

Sleeper Agent has a unique effect that is quite popular in casual play, although I don't use it. I am unsure as to what to do about it. I am inclined to agree with you and so that makes two of us. Anyone in defense of The Sleeper Agent?

Spined Fluke I should have brought up earlier, because it swings for five and regenerates, so I am not sure what you're talking about...

Anyway, your suggestions have been helpful. Are you going to review the other colors as well, or just black?

Since it hasn't been addressed, those creatures you put in the last category...

Slinking Skirge-this spot was supposed to be Skittering Skirge, but I got the two mixed up. Thanks for pointing it out! He is SO off the list now...

Dauthi Warlord-a cheap black shadow creature (1B for a */1) that gets bigger in power for each additional creature with shadow you have. This is really nice with the other shadow creatures.

Disciple of the Vault-the annoying little guy that acts as a kill in Affinity decks. He lets you cause an opponent to lose a life whenever an artifact dies. I've been killed by him myself. His use in Affinity has been pretty universal across multiple formats, so I figured the little guy deserved a spot on the list.

Nantuko Husk-the exact same as Phyrexian Ghoul except in name and creature type.

Order of the Ebon Hand/Knight of Stromgald-I don't know why you would question these. Surely you've played against them. I thought they were generally held to be among the best black creatures ever. They're BB for a 2/1 with protection from white, BB: for +1/+0 until end of turn, and B: for first strike until end of turn.

She is like Avatar of Woe, except uglier and not as good. I don't remember how much she costs, but she has flying and taps to kill other creatures. A lot of players seem to think she is as good as or possibly better than Avatar of Woe. I do not like her so much myself, but I am not sure as to whether I should cut her or not...

 

[Spiderman]

I've built a deck with Sleeper Agent and while he's an interesting card, I wouldn't say he's a good card, certainly in leagues with most of the rest.

A good gold card is Anurid Brushhopper.

 

[DÛke]

What I dislike and question about Apprentice Necromancer is the creature form, which I greatly despise. I can't see any deck actually depending on him, for anything, and if it does, I doubt the deck's power level and card selection altogether. The ability is fine, but the creature form on which it is tagged - no.

Sleeper Agent is a good card, speaking from experience, though is not in part with the great cards on the list; he is a strictly conditional, casual card, at best.

Disciple of the Vault...sigh. I don't think he'll be good in many formats beyond the current environment. I think his power will sink a little after everyone gets over Affinity, and the bland Mirrodin block at large. He can stay, but not too high on the list, in my opinion.

Spined Fluke I have never played with, so I wouldn't know. Though from looking at it, any creature that has a casting cost of 3 or less that can challenge and outlive a Blastoderm is a worthy consideration. I guess he is fine, for now.

Visara and Avatar of Woe are wrongfully compared. Avatar is a more conditional card while Visara is more straightforward, thus is better in straightforward control decks. Upon rethinking, Visara should stay, as she actually serves a different playing style than the Avatar. Both are great cards, to be sure. I myself perfer the Avatar because it is more complex and is way better in the right deck...

Dauthi Warlord, Nantuko Husk, Order of the Ebon Hand, and Knight of Stromgald can stay. What's the creature type of the Nantuko Husk?

As for Spirit of the Night...I guess it's a question of experience. I have Spirit of the Night, but only because it is a pretty card. There will always be this part of me that will doubt its serious playability.

Now...Chaos Turtle brought up Initiates of the Ebon Hand. Explain it to me, Oversoul.

As for the other colors, I will get to them in the order in which I like them. First I like to finish my criticism regarding Black though.

What are your feelings about Lurking Evil? And does anyone even care about the existence of Sengir Vampire anymore?...is he really a great creature?

 

[Oversoul]

I think I'll just yield on Apprentice Necromancer. He probably would not have made it past further rounds of elimination were the list cut down more. Might as well take care of him now...

I'll leave Sleeper Agent on for now, but it is definitely on the watch list, so to speak.

Nantuko Husk is a zombie insect.

Initiates of the Ebon Hand tend to be used with Drain Life and the like. I've actually seen them used for such purposes a lot, which was why I put them on the list.

I had forgotten Lurking Evil. I haven't had all that much experience with the card. Players tend to shy away from the life loss, but on a whim, I'll replace Sengir Vampire with it. You're right, no one cares about the stupid Vampire anymore.

Spidey, thanks for pointing out the the Brush dude. I guess I just forgot about him...

 

[DÛke]

Regarding the Initiates of the Ebon Hand, do you really want a creature to be counted as a great creature because it is great with another spell? This is the same reason why Rayne, Metathrane Elite, Academy Researchers, and Thran Golem will be off the list, even though they are some of my favorite cards of all time. I guess it depends on your opinion of what makes a good creature. To me, a great creature is a self-sufficient creature of sorts, unless it is a greatly dynamic creature, like Avatar of Woe. The creature's power/toughness to casting cost is also of great importance, though this is more unique to the creature and any other advantages it may offer. A creature that is playable because of another card is not really a playable creature. Of course you can argue that most creatures - even obviously great creatures like Morphling and Thrashing Wumpus - depend greatly on the totality of cards included in the deck; that's true, but their dynamic range is great; they are not restricted to 2 or 3 cards; they are not a part of a "combo," they are not a "key" to something greater than themselves - they are great in themselves. I have never seen or touched an Initiates of the Ebon Hand, but do you think it, as a self-sufficient creature, has a great dynamic?...

 

[Oversoul]

You are right and Initiates is now torn screaming from the list. Also, Academy Researchers looked at me funny and is gone as well. Not sure about the others just now...

 

[DÛke]

How could you take off Academy Researchers but still consider the other Enchantment-Friendly creatures? Almost the same philosophy that aptly applies to the Researchers applies to the rest of the gang. They are all essentially mediocre creatures and are only great if enchanted, more so regarding Thran Golem than Rayne and Metathrane Elite...reason being that those particular blue creatures are not that bad: a 2/3 for 1UU is ok, and a 1/1 that makes your creatures a nightmare to target isn't that bad either...but a 3/3 for 5 that is nothing on its own? Give me a break...

Don't get me wrong, I love the Golem, and the preconstructed deck in which he was included is one of my all time favorites, but honestly? He doesn't belong in this list...

 

[Rooser]

I didn't go through everything, but I can tell you that you left out Benalish Knight and Defender of Law in white, Defender of Chaos in red, and Noble Panter, Fleetfoot Panther and MYSTIC ENFORCER in gold.

 

[Oversoul]

DÛke: Academy Researchers is fun, but the good creature enchantments are cheap like Rancor and Curiosity which you could simply cast anyway. In order to make Researchers good, you need an expensive creature enchantment, which is almost always a bad card. Metathran Elite gets the bonus regardless of what the enchantment is, which is more reliable IMO. Still, maybe I should remove the Elite...

Thran Golem would be removed, but the artifact category has so few creatures in it right now that I might actually need to find more, rather than make cuts...

 

[Mikeymike]

Don't know if this is casual single player or casual MP. Either way, here are my largely biased additions for White Blue and Gold, minus all CoK cards

White:
Auriok Steelshaper
Aven Cloudchaser/Cloudchaser Eagle
Dawn Elemental
Devout Witness
Glory
Leonin Abunas
Leonin Shikari
Leonin Skyhunter
Sunscape Familiar
True Believer
Whipgrass Entangler
Windborn Muse

Blue:
Aboshan, Cephalid Emperor
Barrin, Master Wizard
Blind Seer
Cephalid Constable
Cloudskate
Cloud Spirit
Fog Bank
Patron Wizard
Polar Kraken (He has won more than a few games for me)
Puppeteer
Quicksilver Dragon
Somnophore
Spiketail Drake
Spindrift Drake
Vodalian Illusionist
Wizard Mentor
Wormfang Drake

Gold:
Army Ants
Blazing Specter
Captain Sisay
Charging Troll
Cinder Shade
Doomsday Specter
Femeref Enchantress
Fleetfoot Panther
Goblin Legionaire
Guiding Spirit
Gweldlyn Di Cordi (spelling?)
Horned Kavu
Marsh Crocodile
Mundungu
Mystic Enforcer
Nobel Panther
Pyre Zombie
Questing Pheldagriff (I will accept no arguments, this is an excellent creature)
Rasputin Dreamweaver
Razorfin Hunter
Selenia, Dark Angel
Soltari Guerillas
Sol'Kanar
Vhati Il-Dal
Viashino Dragon
Voracious Cobra (very, very annoying)

 

[Oversoul]

Sorry for not addressing your post, Rooser. I had been pressed for time. I will add your suggestions and try to get to Mikeymike's later. He suggested a lot of additions, though I'm sure some of them would be extraneous additions (like Polar Kraken, which I have used successfully myself, but which is simply not among the best of blue's creatures).

 

[Mikeymike]

Black:

Ascendent Evincar
Ashen Ghoul
Balthor the Defiled
Bone Dancer
Cabal Interrogator
Carrion Feeder
Crypt Angel
Desolation Angel
Fallen Angel
Graveborn Muse (Might be Zombie dependent, but it still is hella strong)
Guiltfeeder (Maybe? He is usually pretty dangerous)
Krovikan Horror
Laquata's Champion
Mesmeric Fiend
Mortivore
Necratog
Noxious Ghoul
Royal Assassin
Scion of Darkness (his cycling makes him great, b/c black gets him from GY to play very easily)
Sengir Autocrat
Sengir Vampire
Twisted Abomination
Undead Gladiator
Wall of Souls

 

[Mikeymike]

Red:

Ancient Hydra
Dragon Tyrant (Might not be 'great' in the classic sense, but I do know that whenever he is in play he is terrifying)
Dragon Whelp (or the new one)
Dwarven Miner
Dwarven Pony
Flametongue Kavu
Fledgling Dragon
Jeska, Warrior Adept (bias)
Kamahl, Pit Fighter (huge bias)
Kilnmouth Dragon
Magnivore
Menacing Ogre (more bias, feel free to cut. Casual players, do not underestimate this guy!)
Mogg Maniac
Ogre Shaman
Ruhk Egg
Slith Firewalker
Thunderscape Battlemage
Two-Headed Dragon
Viashino Cutt-throat
Viashino Heretic (WAY underrated)
Viashino Sandstalker
Viashino Sandscout
Ydwen Efreet

 

[Oversoul]

I don't have so many in the red category, so I'm going to get to that one and add some of your suggestions...

Edit: Dwarven Pony? You misunderstand. I'm trying to make this thing completely serious. Okay, I'll get rid of Saprazzan Heir, just to avoid being too much of a hypocrite. It's just that she's so...