Full English Breakfast

Discussion in 'Casual Decks/Variants/Etc' started by Gizmo, Dec 13, 2000.

  1. Zadok001 CPA Founder, Greater Good

    Well, this deck fails to take advantage of Spike Weaver to the same extent... That's a drawback worth noting. (I'm considering a Weaver in my version.)
  2. Draconis New Member

    Problem is that it's fairly tricky to get Weaver active, as you can't drop the Weaver into the graveyard with an active Shifter, you have to cast the Shifter with the Weaver on top.
    Otherwise, it shifts into Weaver form with no +1/+1 counters and dies.
    Peacekeeper could be far more successful as a creature deterrent, as all it needs to keep working is a white mana source.
    To be honest, though, I've tended to find that pure creature decks (Stompy, etc.) tend to not have a hope against you anyway, the weird areas are the mirror match, the Trade-Survival match etc. Combo is a bit of a pain due to your limited maindeck answers, but some nice silver bullets in the board can work wonders (Carrion Beetles, etc.)
  3. Duel Has Less Posts Than Spiderman

    [me] grins[/me]
    Creature decks don't have a hope? My stompy just went, what was it, 10-3 against FEB, right Zadok? :)

    Draconis hit the nail on the head, weavers suck because they cannot be used, and, in fact, kill volrath's shapeshifter. Maybe dawnstrider would be better?

    My solution, though nobody seems to agree, is masticore. The key to remember is, it's a masticore only until you cover it. But until then it's a regular damage machine. PLUS it regenerates. oh, and colorless mana makes it castable too.
  4. Zadok001 CPA Founder, Greater Good

    It was more even than that, Duel - I won most of the games we played the first time. The second series of games went in your favor, but I think we split pretty well...

    I think the Weaver works well, actually. It doesn't go with the Shapeshifter, but remember, the deck is NOT a Shapeshifter deck. It uses Shapeshifters, but it's a Survival deck at heart. The Shapeshifters are a bonus. The Spike is the BEST defense against Suicide Black, Stampy, WW, and often, Deadguy. It's not good against some decks, but then, no card is good against everything. The deck uses an Uktabi, that doesn't go well with Shapeshifter. Trust me, the Weaver is worth using.
  5. Gizmo Composite: 1860

    But FEB is faster than Stompy...
    And SB Peacekeeper is mucho tech against Stompy.
  6. Zadok001 CPA Founder, Greater Good

    FEB _can_ be faster than Stompy. That doesn't mean it _is_. Besides, Duel's Stompy is exceptionally fast, third turn kills aren't out of the question, and fourth turn without interference are commonplace.

    As for the Weaver...

    First of all, realize that Masticore is BAD in FEB. Period. BAD card. It's good ONLY if you cast it, and then it becomes bad if it dies. Imagine a Shapeshifter. You have a Masticore in your hand. Discard it, say, during your opponent's turn to make a 'Core. During your upkeep, your Masticore is GONE, because you just discarded something to it. I don't care if it's a Squee, you lost the 'Core for this turn. You don't get to attack with it. So, you can discard it on your turn, right? Sure, but then it's gone by your next turn, for the same reasons. Yay. One turn worth of Masticore isn't good. It _is_ possible to keep Masticore in play, but only if, during your opponent's turn, you discard a Squee to Survival, then bring it back during your upkeep. I don't think that's worth the cost, personally, since you're usually better off having a Sliver Queen in that situation anyways.

    The Weaver actually has some neat interactions. First of all, it's a card to Survival for, so you'll often be able to cover it if it becomes a liability. But if you Survival it away and then play a Shapeshifter, you get a 3/3 Fogging 'Shifter - That KEEPS the +1/+1 counters even if you change creatures! That's _really_ good. Survival up a Weaver and put it in play. Transfer one of it's counters to a Shapeshifter before it dies. Bounce a 'Shifter to replay it as a +1/+1 counter machine. Etc...
  7. Aku Necromancer Headlights off

    there have been many situations when playinf FEB when i needed just one more turn to win the game, and normally i lose the game before that happens. As a matter of fact, I didnt make the final four in the latest tournament i attended because i couldnt handle a horde of black shadow creatures(suicide black). The weaver will be in the main deck of my version of FEB.
  8. Planeswalker New Member

    I wanna add something to go against Instanbul's comments.

    1. Only an idiot would make it a 23/1 Trample when a 20/4 would do the same thing. If you know that they have the R open, and you cannot FoW or something, then don't put 11 +1/-1 pumps on the stack. Put 8, so that only Fireblast stops it.

    2. No one will Ritual into an Ensnaring Bridge. Ritual isnt legal anymore, and if it was, Butt-monkey would quickly eat Ensnaring Bridge like its supposed to do.

    3. Even if Tormod's Crypt were legal to play, then only that same idiot mentioned in rant 1 would fill up his graveyard with dudes. I have played TS, Rec-Sur and more recently this, and even against turn 1 Planar Void. You know what? You survival into Squee, then get one guy at a time. You take it slow. You are versatile and combo-rific. Once u get the Butt-Monkey to eat the Crypt, you eat it. Then, after the stack clears, you combo them out.

    You tried, but ya gotta try harder.
  9. Loafing Giant Big Dumb Lummox

    Jeeeeez! somebody's crabby.

    You make it a 23/1 to ensure a win, other wise all they have to do is block with a 1/1 and they're still
    alive at 1 life.
  10. Tabasco DDR Fanatic

    does this count as a double post if I am posting after my old screen name...lol?

    Any way I would like to make a newer more versitile version of this old deck.

    we will keep the same core components, but we will need to change the sideboards for sure....who is with me?
  11. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    I'm with you, Tabasco. Might I suggest Raisin as the format for this deck? It's so perfect for any Survival builds, after all...
  12. Rooser Thread Necromancer

    I'm down for this game, but tell me what sort of approach you are looking for before we start making decklists. Also - what about using phage? I think she'd be pretty good - you attack, they declare no blockers, two mana later BAM, they're hit with the lady of death.
  13. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    I think Phage and Phyrexian Dreadnought are very good for this, but maybe I'm just too used to stupid Ninja Mask in Vintage...
  14. Mikeymike Captain Hiatus

    If you are going with the Phage route, I would also heavily consider some of the various incarnations - specifically Wonder.

    Greater Harvester seems like it would be fun, but it is strictly inferior to Phage in here.

    I'd keep the Morphling, since it permanently gives the Shapeshifter untargetability and/or flying even if it no longer is the active copy.

    I think Ground Seal could be helpful if Withered Wretch is a problem, but it won't do anything against Tormod's Crypt.

    I'd still heavily consider Tortured Existence in here, it would allow you repeat the necessary tricks over and over again giving control fits.
  15. Rooser Thread Necromancer

    Tortured Existence would be awesome in this deck. If they kill off your shapeshifter you can just get it right back by dumping a card you probably wanted to dump anyway, plus it can give you more tricks up your sleeve in terms of getting dudes you already discarded back on top of your graveyard. Although I guess Survival pulls off most of this utility too.

    I like Morphling as both a booster to the creature and as an alternate threat if you hardcast it, however I also like Cephalid Inkshrouder for a more organic way to give the shapeshifter evasion.
  16. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    I would use multiple copies of Phyrexian Dreadnought, since that is the creature which is usually desirable, and in control matches, you may need to dump him into the yard more than once...

    Since this is a Survival deck, I agree that incarnations are great, especially thanks to dual lands. Wonder and Anger are the two that come to mind. Genesis is another possibility...
  17. Mikeymike Captain Hiatus

    Inkshrouder tech! Nice call Rooser.

    Oversoul, I agree with you about the multiple copies of the Dreadnaught, he seems to be the the one key bomb.

    How about Avatar of Woe? I'm not sure about it for Raisin b/c of the Qty/Qlty of opposing creatures, but it is an excellent utility/beater that also has a very realistic ACC in this deck.

    This deck can go in so many different directions, including blue draw/pitch cards (Fact or Fiction, Thirst for Knowledge, Intuition, Careful Study, etc.).
  18. Tabasco DDR Fanatic

    wow, look what I have started!

    Yes...I have seen netdecks that combo out Inkshrouder-Phage just as the old extended went Hellion-Dreadnought.

    I think we could go either way...

    You would only need one shrouder and 2 phages...if we are going to go like the old deck went. I am using Akroma in my current build of FEB. I also think we should use Anger with some Volcanic Islands or Tagias and some Wooded Foothills..the deck already runs Tropical Islands. Birds of Paridise are also a great mana producer. The old deck also used Wall of Roots as a reusable source of mana that could be tapped with Tradewind Rider and also provides a good early defense. So whether we want to keep these guys around or find new alternatives is up to you guys.

    The old version also ran Magic's favorite counter spell...FoW and 3 copies of the original for some control.

    We also need creatures for utility....like "Sex Monkies" and Elvish Lyrist. Reya is also such an awesome creature in here because once she is in the grave with a shapeshifter in play she comes back...and so do her friends...that means encore presentations for the lyrist and monkies..masticore is not very good in here though, because discarding something would make it no longer a masticore...Squee is a great card in here still...and I like the Wonder idea. Ground seal should definitely be in the board IMHO...as the cards in grave are just as importan as the cards in play...you would not need a haster in most cases, because I think that the summoning sickness is based on the shapeshifter and not what it has become so it would only have summoning sickness on the turn it was cast...(correct me if I am wrong)

    Keep up the good work people!!

    4 Survival
    4 Shapeshifters
    2 Phage
    1 Inky
  19. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Add a Squee to virtually any Survival build...

    I would think 2-4 Dreadnoughts for Breakfast too...
  20. train The Wildcard!!!...

    So the decklist looks like what now?...

Share This Page