CPA Build-A-Deck III: Liliana Vess

Discussion in 'General CPA Stuff' started by Shabbaman, Sep 25, 2008.

  1. Shabbaman insert avatar here

    Welcome to this new installment of CPA Build-A-Deck, "CPA BAD 3: return of a villainess, featuring Liliana Vess". Boy, I hate sequels...

    Anyway, by special request this new edition starts with a planeswalker. For those who don't know what a planeswalker is: it's a kind of magic card. Really. Not a representation of a player, but an actual card. You can see the card in question here:

    Name: Liliana Vess

    Set & Rarity: Lorwyn rare

    Cost: 3BB
    Card Type: Planeswalker - Liliana

    P/T: 5 (loyalty counters, to be exact)
    [+1]: Target player discards a card.
    [-2]: Search your library for a card, then shuffle your library and put that card on top of it.
    [-8]: Put all creature cards in all graveyards into play under your control.

    Some rules for this thread:

    - one card per person per day
    - you may add multiples of a card (I think this is new, but let's build a playable deck...)
    - quote the decklist and add your card to the list
    - use color tags to identify the card
    - link to the card or quote card text
    - the deck has to be legal in some format, unless specified otherwise; so don't add illegal cards!
    - explain your card choice

    That's a lot of rules...

    So, we start with Liliana Vess. Let's stick to the Legacy B/R for this one (I don't really enjoy playing WGD combo with my casual decks you know...). As thread starter I'm taking the liberty of adding another card: Rix Maadi, Dungeon palace. It's a land that makes everyone discard a card, which let's you make good use of LV's ultimate ability.

    4x Liliana Vess
    1x Rix Maadi, Dungeon palace

    Creatures spells: 0
    Non-Creature spells: 4
    Land: 1
  2. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Ugh, what's the Legacy B/R list? I know, I could look it up. But I'll add Demonic Tutor, always good for black.

    Liliana Vess:

    Name: Liliana Vess

    Set & Rarity: Lorwyn rare

    Cost: 3BB
    Card Type: Planeswalker - Liliana

    P/T: 5 (loyalty counters, to be exact)
    [+1]: Target player discards a card.
    [-2]: Search your library for a card, then shuffle your library and put that card on top of it.
    [-8]: Put all creature cards in all graveyards into play under your control.

    4x Liliana Vess
    1x Rix Maadi, Dungeon palace
    1x Demonic Tutor

    Creatures spells: 0
    Non-Creature spells: 5
    Land: 1

    Total: 6
  3. Modus Pwnens Eligible for User Title

    That's banned in Legacy.
    Do we add lands as well?

    Anyway, I"ll go for.. Death Cloud. It's really awesome with planeswalker lemme tell you :)



    Name: Liliana Vess

    Set & Rarity: Lorwyn rare

    Cost: 3BB
    Card Type: Planeswalker - Liliana

    P/T: 5 (loyalty counters, to be exact)
    [+1]: Target player discards a card.
    [-2]: Search your library for a card, then shuffle your library and put that card on top of it.
    [-8]: Put all creature cards in all graveyards into play under your control.

    4x Liliana Vess
    1x Rix Maadi, Dungeon palace
    1x Demonic Tutor
    1x Death Cloud

    Creatures spells: 0
    Non-Creature spells: 6
    Land: 1

    Total: 7
  4. Mooseman Isengar Tussle

    Is it staying in the deck?

    If you want LV's ultimate ability to be used, you're gonna have to last 3 turns after she hits the table, so.... let's keep those pesky creatures a bay with Hissing Miasma. They'll lose life just to attack.

    I added the comp rules about Planeswalkers, just to get everyone up to speed on them.

    Why 4 in the deck? They are like legendary creatures, only one at a time in play.

    Name: Liliana Vess:

    Set & Rarity: Lorwyn rare

    Cost: 3BB
    Card Type: Planeswalker - Liliana

    P/T: 5 (loyalty counters, to be exact)
    [+1]: Target player discards a card.
    [-2]: Search your library for a card, then shuffle your library and put that card on top of it.
    [-8]: Put all creature cards in all graveyards into play under your control.

    4x Liliana Vess
    1x Rix Maadi, Dungeon palace
    1x Demonic Tutor
    1x Death Cloud
    1x Hissing Miasma


    Creatures spells: 0
    Non-Creature spells: 7
    Land: 1

    Total: 8

    212.9. Planeswalkers

    212.9a A player who has priority may play a planeswalker card from his or her hand during a main phase of his or her turn when the stack is empty. Playing a planeswalker as a spell uses the stack. (See rule 409, “Playing Spells and Activated Abilities.”)

    212.9b When a planeswalker spell resolves, its controller puts it into play under his or her control.

    212.9c Planeswalker subtypes are always a single word and are listed after a long dash: “Planeswalker — Jace.” Each word after the dash is a separate subtype. Planeswalker subtypes are also called planeswalker types. Planeswalkers may have multiple subtypes. (You can find the complete list of planeswalker subtypes under “Planeswalker Types” in the glossary at the end of this document.) If two or more planeswalkers that share a planeswalker type are in play, all are put into their owners’ graveyards as a state-based effect. See rule 420.5.

    212.9d Loyalty is a characteristic only planeswalkers have. The loyalty of a planeswalker not in play is equal to the number printed in its lower right corner. The loyalty of a planeswalker in play is equal to the number of loyalty counters on it. A planeswalker is treated as if its text box included, “This permanent comes into play with a number of loyalty counters on it equal to its printed loyalty number”; this ability creates a replacement effect (see rule 419.1). As a planeswalker gains or loses loyalty, loyalty counters are put on it or removed from it, respectively. Damage dealt to a planeswalker results in that many loyalty counters being removed from it. If a planeswalker’s loyalty is 0, it’s put into its owner’s graveyard as a state-based effect. See rule 420.5.

    212.9e Planeswalkers can be attacked. (See rule 308, “Declare Attackers Step.”)

    212.9f Each planeswalker has a number of activated abilities. A player may play an activated ability of a planeswalker only during a main phase of his or her turn, when he or she has priority and the stack is empty, and only if none of its activated abilities have been played that turn. The cost to play an activated ability of a planeswalker is to put on or remove from that planeswalker a certain number of loyalty counters, as shown by the loyalty symbol in the ability’s cost. An ability with a negative loyalty cost can’t be played unless the planeswalker has at least that many loyalty counters on it.

    212.9g If noncombat damage would be dealt to a player by a source controlled by an opponent, that opponent may have that source deal that damage to a planeswalker the first player controls instead. This is a redirection effect (see rule 419.6c) and is subject to the normal rules for ordering replacement effects (see rule 419.9). The opponent chooses whether to redirect the damage as the redirection effect is applied.
  5. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    In case one gets killed? Beats me... maybe we just need three? I've never played with planeswalkers so I don't know what the right proportion is.

    Since Demonic Tutor is banned, I'll replace it with Duress.

    Name: Liliana Vess:

    Set & Rarity: Lorwyn rare

    Cost: 3BB
    Card Type: Planeswalker - Liliana

    P/T: 5 (loyalty counters, to be exact)
    [+1]: Target player discards a card.
    [-2]: Search your library for a card, then shuffle your library and put that card on top of it.
    [-8]: Put all creature cards in all graveyards into play under your control.

    4x Liliana Vess
    1x Rix Maadi, Dungeon palace
    1x Duress
    1x Death Cloud
    1x Hissing Miasma


    Creatures spells: 0
    Non-Creature spells: 7
    Land: 1

    Total: 8

    212.9. Planeswalkers

    212.9a A player who has priority may play a planeswalker card from his or her hand during a main phase of his or her turn when the stack is empty. Playing a planeswalker as a spell uses the stack. (See rule 409, “Playing Spells and Activated Abilities.”)

    212.9b When a planeswalker spell resolves, its controller puts it into play under his or her control.

    212.9c Planeswalker subtypes are always a single word and are listed after a long dash: “Planeswalker — Jace.” Each word after the dash is a separate subtype. Planeswalker subtypes are also called planeswalker types. Planeswalkers may have multiple subtypes. (You can find the complete list of planeswalker subtypes under “Planeswalker Types” in the glossary at the end of this document.) If two or more planeswalkers that share a planeswalker type are in play, all are put into their owners’ graveyards as a state-based effect. See rule 420.5.

    212.9d Loyalty is a characteristic only planeswalkers have. The loyalty of a planeswalker not in play is equal to the number printed in its lower right corner. The loyalty of a planeswalker in play is equal to the number of loyalty counters on it. A planeswalker is treated as if its text box included, “This permanent comes into play with a number of loyalty counters on it equal to its printed loyalty number”; this ability creates a replacement effect (see rule 419.1). As a planeswalker gains or loses loyalty, loyalty counters are put on it or removed from it, respectively. Damage dealt to a planeswalker results in that many loyalty counters being removed from it. If a planeswalker’s loyalty is 0, it’s put into its owner’s graveyard as a state-based effect. See rule 420.5.

    212.9e Planeswalkers can be attacked. (See rule 308, “Declare Attackers Step.”)

    212.9f Each planeswalker has a number of activated abilities. A player may play an activated ability of a planeswalker only during a main phase of his or her turn, when he or she has priority and the stack is empty, and only if none of its activated abilities have been played that turn. The cost to play an activated ability of a planeswalker is to put on or remove from that planeswalker a certain number of loyalty counters, as shown by the loyalty symbol in the ability’s cost. An ability with a negative loyalty cost can’t be played unless the planeswalker has at least that many loyalty counters on it.

    212.9g If noncombat damage would be dealt to a player by a source controlled by an opponent, that opponent may have that source deal that damage to a planeswalker the first player controls instead. This is a redirection effect (see rule 419.6c) and is subject to the normal rules for ordering replacement effects (see rule 419.9). The opponent chooses whether to redirect the damage as the redirection effect is applied.
  6. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    The only format I know of with a restricted list is Vintage. Legacy only has a banned list: http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=judge/resources/sfrlegacy

    What with all the black spells, we're going to want some way to power those out. I'll sprinkle some mana acceleration on this deck...

    4x Liliana Vess
    1x Rix Maadi, Dungeon palace
    1x Duress
    1x Death Cloud
    1x Hissing Miasma
    1x Dark Ritual

    Creatures spells: 0
    Non-Creature spells: 8
    Land: 1

    Total: 9
  7. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Well, we're only adding one card at a time (so I edited it), but is this deck going to be highlander (aside from the planewalker) or can someone else add a multiple card later on?
  8. Shabbaman insert avatar here

    I'd rather not do highlander unless it's Elder Dragon Highlander. If we go with too many singletons it's more a "name a card"/word association-thread than a deckbuilding thread.
  9. BigBlue Magic Jones

    (* I say allow multiple copies, but they can only be added one at a time*)
    (* Speaking of EDH... why couldn't these decks be like that - where the planeswalker is your EDH, but not necessarilly 100 cards etc... *)

    Synergy, Synergy, Synergy... Plus, discard at Instant speed is cool...

    Nezumi Shortfang

    4x Liliana Vess
    1x Rix Maadi, Dungeon palace
    1x Duress
    1x Death Cloud
    1x Hissing Miasma
    1x Dark Ritual
    1x Nezumi Shortfang

    Creatures spells: 1
    Non-Creature spells: 8
    Land: 1

    Total: 10
  10. Mooseman Isengar Tussle

    Can we retract a card we listed if it doesn't work in the deck anymore?
    I like the not highlander format for this.
  11. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Original post said you may add multiples of a card. That's what I was going by...
  12. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Yeah, but I think it's still one card per person per day. So you could add Dark Ritual, I could add it, BB could add it... just not one person adding 4 copies of it.
  13. Melkor Active Member

  14. Shabbaman insert avatar here

    I'd add two dark rituals, but I'll leave that up to you... but with the same reasoning, I'll add a Cabal coffers. Just assuming that we'll go for a lot of swamps instead of a full domain...

    4 planeswalkers might be too many. I don't know, they die easily I guess...

    4x Liliana Vess
    1x Rix Maadi, Dungeon palace
    1x Cabal coffers
    1x Duress
    1x Death Cloud
    1x Hissing Miasma
    2x Dark Ritual
    1x Nezumi Shortfang

    Creatures spells: 1
    Non-Creature spells: 9
    Land: 2

    Total: 12

    If that's a format you'd like to play... but the number of planeswalkers is limited, and most of them are monocolored. That limits your options. Most people would play either Garruk or Liliana (or the new ones), and being able to play your planeswalker out of limbo makes your deck insanely strong.
  15. rokapoke Man Among Gods

  16. Mooseman Isengar Tussle

    I'm sensing the gist of this deck is to keep cards out of your opponents hand, right? So, I'll add Cao Cao, Lord of Wei. With this and Liliana in play, your opponent shouldn't have cards in hand most of the game. Is the Legendary status a problem?
    Maybe some removal is needed. What are good creatures that have removal? Mesmeric Fiend?
    Also dual lands a necessary.


    4x Liliana Vess
    1x Rix Maadi, Dungeon palace
    1x Cabal coffers
    1x Duress
    1x Death Cloud
    1x Hissing Miasma
    2x Dark Ritual
    1x Nezumi Shortfang
    1x Fireball
    1x Cao Cao, Lord of Wei

    Creatures spells: 2
    Non-Creature spells: 10
    Land: 2

    Total: 14
  17. BigBlue Magic Jones

  18. Oversoul The Tentacled One

  19. BigBlue Magic Jones

    Here's one thing... we have Lilliana for discard... and late game discard draws are just pointless... I'm going to propose a different direction... Control as opposed to a lot of discard cards... Or - use Instant speed Discard (Funeral Charm) - so you can get it during their draw step.

    Liliana can force a player with no cards to discard for 1 loyalty, correct?

    Fireball will be more broken in this format since it can be directed at planeswalkers instead of players... do we want to allow this? Unless all these decks have a way to deal non-combat damage to players, it'll be unfair.

    With all the decks having planeswalkers as an EDH... it'd be equal footing.
  20. Rakarth New Member

    Liliana is still sorcery speed discard and can only be used once per turn but you are correct.

    Would the deck be better as B/U not B/R or is that decided, because you could start to mill them and counterspell to get cards into the graveyard as well. Cards like Induce Paranoia will mill the opponent or Memory Sluice.

    If all that is above then I propose Dream Salvage to get back some cards and gain even more card advantage.



    4x Liliana Vess
    1x Rix Maadi, Dungeon palace
    1x Cabal coffers
    2x Duress
    1x Death Cloud
    1x Hissing Miasma
    2x Dark Ritual
    1x Nezumi Shortfang
    1x Fireball
    1x Cao Cao, Lord of Wei
    1x Damnation
    1x Dream Salvage

    Creatures spells: 2
    Non-Creature spells: 13
    Land: 2

    Total: 17

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