Clearing up Peasant Magic Misconceptions

Discussion in 'Casual Decks/Variants/Etc' started by Ephraim, Aug 3, 2004.

  1. train The Wildcard!!!...

    It's not irrelevant...

    It had nothing to do with you being new here, or you're ability to judge card quality...

    It had to do with you're being new here and not knowing my play styles... the reason blue sucks major cajones is because it is over-powered... I choose to "lose access" to FoW, FoF, etc... that's what I was stating it for - I don't play blue - many others here do...

    Notice the rest of that post was about what I'd play... Not everyone in general...
  2. Ephraim New Member

    I apologize if I overreacted. It was not clear from your first post that you were merely discussing your deckbuilding preferences. The certitude with which you made your statements lead me to believe you were stating as fact (or at least as well-supported theory) that blue was substandard.

    At any rate, I still don't think that Splinter and Eradicate are optimal choices for the format. They're difficult cards for which to maximize your utility. In retrospect, I can't claim that I would never use them. Like Swords to Plowshares, I can see them filling an important niche in some deck, when a more common solution is not readily available. However, it is important to note that I would not start with them as my uncommons and build from there. I would use them only if there were not a common solution. In most situations, Naturalize would be adequate in the same position as Splinter and Terror, Dark Banishing, or Diabolic Edict would serve similar purpose to Eradicate. I'm not forgetting that you also get to remove cards from their decks, but I am not certain that function is of extraordinarily high utility.
  3. Captain Caveman New Member

    Do you have/(is there a Peasant Gauntlet)

    I'm always open to new ideas/formats. Can you give some other
    examples of decks.
  4. Ephraim New Member

    There isn't a fully established gauntlet, yet. Some of the folks who inhabit the Peasant Magic forums over at Brainburst have spent some of the summer testing various canonical, popular decks against one another in an attempt to establish a gauntlet. There are few testers though, so the going has been slow. Once that's done, there will definitely be a gauntlet. Bear in mind that the decks being used in the testing are typically the most popular variant of a deck, which is not necessarily the optimal variant. At present, the tests are to determine which decks that are currently in play are the best and how the matchups typically play out. Once it's done, we'll be better able to optimize the decks.

    I believe I've already mentioned Mono-Black Control, IsoBlue, IsoBurn, and Affinity. In our testing circuit, there's also Suicide (Aggro) Black, White Weenie, Prosperous Tides (Combo), ElfClamp (Combo/Aggro), Stupid Red Men (Goblin Aggro). If you're looking for fresh territory to cover, I'm pretty sure that there hasn't been much attention given to Psychatog. I tried putting together a 'Tog deck, but it's not an archetype that well suits me, so it wasn't very good. Perhaps somebody else could do better.
  5. Ephraim New Member

    I've done some editing on the Fish deck, posted previously in this thread.

    One of the big problems with this deck in general is that it doesn't have any way of dealing with resolved artifacts or enchantments. Although the deck packs a slew of counter magic, without ready access to Force of Will, it's going to suffer somewhat. Also, I'm quickly coming to the conclusion that 8 Echoing spells in the sideboard is a little bit excessive. I'm going to try to tighten up the sideboard and prepare the maindeck a little bit to deal with a spell that actually makes it through.

    I would like to add two Rushing River. To do this, I can easily cut one copy of Jilt. The effects of Jilt and Rushing River are sufficiently similar that this doesn't cause problems. I believe I can also safely replace one copy of Quicksilver Dagger. Although it is good, the mana cost can be a bit steep at times. Having six gold cards in the deck may be somewhat easier to handle than having seven.

    Summary:
    -1 Jilt
    -1 Quicksilver Dagger

    +2 Rushing River

    As far as the sideboard goes, it's an excellent place to store the fourth Jilt and the third and fourth Rushing River. Against Mono-Black Control, for example, I'd rather have Rushing River, while against White Weenie, Jilt is better. Although Rushing River helps against artifacts, I think they're still sufficiently dangerous to merit the inclusion of two copies of Shatter in the sideboard. Because this deck is tempo-oriented, the fact that Shatter is an instant is important. 3 copies of Arc Lightning are still good for dealing with White Weenie and the mirror match. Four Red Elemental Blast remain to deal with Prosperous Tides and three Blue Elemental Blast come in to help deal with burn, which can do a lot of damage to this deck's vital creature base.

    Revised Sideboard:
    1 Jilt
    2 Rushing River
    2 Shatter
    3 Arc Lightning
    3 Blue Elemental Blast
    4 Red Elemental Blast
  6. Killerbob Official CPA European Guy

    I like the idea of peasant magic. But I cant see the point in allowing Force of Will and other strong uncommons, but banning web. Also I think the good thing about this is that you get a chance to play lot of cards you hardly ever use, and to use mechanics which isnt good enough for normal magic. With FoW and a tuned sideboard it looks more like common powerhouses...

    Anyway, this is a REAL "FISH" deck, which could be peasant-leagal with some small changes. Its not good, but its FISH!



    17 island
    4 svyelunite temple

    4 hammerhead shark
    4 dandan
    4 school of piranha
    2 manta ray
    3 segovian leviathan
    2 giant shark

    4 seas claim
    4 lingering mirage
    4 sunken city

    2 abjure
    4 counterspell
    2 boomerang


    :D :D :D
  7. Ephraim New Member

    So it's a battle of the fish decks, is it? Your list looks interesting. 4x Sea's Claim and 4x Lingering Mirage have the potential to wreck a lot of opponents.

    As far as the list is concerned, there's a few things I don't like about it.

    First, I don't know if it's wise to try to support 4x School of Piranha and 4x Sunken City in the same deck. I think you would be better of with 4x Man-o'-War in place of the Piranha. Additionally, that would allow you to replace 2x Boomerang with 2x Abjure (Abjure, by the way, is hot in this deck.)

    I would also suggest reconsideration of Segovian Leviathan. It's got a high casting cost that makes it notably less playable. In its place, I would play Seasinger.

    To finish making it Peasant legal, basic Islands or perhaps Saprazzan Skerry in place of Svyelunite Temple.
  8. Killerbob Official CPA European Guy

    This is FISH...man-o-war and seasingers arent fish. They are jellyfish and merfolk. It seems like magicplayers have forgotten what a fish is :rolleyes:

    I´m perfectly aware of the malfunctions of this deck, but its FISH...and they like a sunken city, where they can find some dead bodies for their eggs. The temple works basically the same way, but as an added bonus its nice to have when you have to pay 4 or 6 mana in your upkeep, and still wants to cast spells.

    I have no intentions battling anyone with this deck -the one time I tried I was humiliated by a crappy 3 color man-land theme deck :(
    Maybe I will make a "merseine" or "kingfisher" based crap deck to find equal sparring for the fish(es) (hmmm...is the plural of fish fish, or fishes???)
  9. Ephraim New Member

    I didn't realize you were being such a stickler. If you care to be technical, the creature type of Dandan is Dandan and the creature type of Giant Shark is shark. If you're going to argue that they're fish of some sort, then you at least have to acknowledge Man-o'-War as a legitimate fish.

    Also, not to be a jerk or anything, but if you don't intend to battle anybody with the deck, what's the point in having it? I'm totally down with casual play, but those are battles too, right?
  10. Killerbob Official CPA European Guy

    I have it because...it must be some collection-thing. Battling or not -casual magic isnt about the strongest build.

    btw -man-o-war isnt a fish since it has no spine, and therefore is not a vertebrate.
  11. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    I hadn't been planning to try Peasant format, since I don't know of anyone else in my area that plays it for starters...

    But I'm wondering about it now, because I think I could make my old Radium-228 decklist into a Peasant legal build, which would give me reason to rebuild the thing. I liked it, but it sucked too much compared to my other decks, which were filled with rares.

    4x Dark Ritual
    4x Drain Life
    4x Hymn to Tourach
    4x Fog of Gnats
    2x Coercion (my Duresses were in a different deck...)
    4x Cemetery Gate
    2x Darkling Stalker (I love this guy--want to use him again)
    2x Persecute (rare, but I never liked them anyway)
    4x Pestilence (it's common!)
    4x Urza's Armor (leaving me with an open slot for an uncommon)
    4x Corrupt
    22x Swamp

    I believe I still have all the cards for this. I would probably end up filling the Coercion/Persecute slots with Duresses and that would still leave me with an open slot for an uncommon. Would it be viable at all?
  12. Ephraim New Member

    I think it would stand an excellent chance. It's quite similar to the mono-black control build, Coffer King, that is currently chic in Peasant Magic. Here's the list for that deck:

    3 Dark Ritual
    4 Duress
    4 Hymn to Tourach
    4 Diabolic Edict
    4 Cemetery Gates
    4 Pestilence
    4 Consume Spirit
    4 Drain Life
    3 Demonic Tutor
    2 Cabal Coffers
    24 Swamp

    Most notably, you seem to concern yourself more with self-defense, with Fog of Gnats and Urza's Armour. Coffer King really just wants to fire off a large Consume Spirit or Drain Life. A big plus in favour of Coffer King is the awesome consistency that 3x Demonic Tutor gives it.
  13. orgg Administrator

    On MOL, a form of Pesant is becoming popular, though it's an all-common format. It's rumored that it may become an official format at some point, though that is just rumor...

    As that goes, I've found that LD works fairly well, though I havn't played it too much... it doesn't really seem to be Magic to me unless I have a more 'full' selection of choices.
  14. Killerbob Official CPA European Guy

    Playing only with commons sounds like a nice idea, but commons tends to be the more "primitive" cards, so you actually make magic less fun and skilldemanding. Very nice to find a use for all of these commons, but when you end up playing, rituals, duress, lightning bolt and the like, you are actually just finding another use for all the broken commons you always use anyway. You can build cheeper and more rogue decks using craprares. Its possible to buy several fun craprares for the price of 1 duress, not mentioning Force of Will or chain lightning.
    I visited the peasant homepage and saw the decks which finished in the top at gencon01. Obviously there were some red decks (everyone know that you can make a very cheep and wellfunctioning red burn deck, so thats no surprise), and then there were some white decks with lifegain or red hate. No blue decks at all. Blue is hard to ply with mostly commons.
    Isnt this format mostly about playing red, or hating red? The decks wasnt even well tuned. No chain lightnings.
    It seems like this format need some development before it can be regarded as a "serious" format.
  15. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Hmm...

    I don't have any Cabal Coffers, but I could probably get some if necessary. Demonic Tutors are no problem as I have a full compliment of those. Radium-228 was more of a multiplayer deck, since the Pestilence/Armor combo allowed it to hit the board hard while not harming myself. I think I will rebuild 228 as a peasant build, if just for kicks...

    A burn deck would be almost ridiculously easy to run in this format...

    Mogg Fanatic, Lightning Bolt, Chain Lightning, Incinerate, Seal of Fire, Fireblast, Sonic Burst, Flame Rift, Scent of Cinder, Sandstone Needle...

    All are commons. I don't even know what would be best for the uncommon slots. All of the best burn cards are common (well, Fork, Wheel of Fortune, and Ball Lightning are rares, but they can be easily be done without in this underpowered format).

    And so far I've heard no mention of sideboards. Are there any? Without sideboards, burn must surely be a great deck, although I still think monoblack has perhaps the most potential in this format, even with Juzam Djinn banned and all...
  16. Chaos Turtle Demiurgic CPA Member, Admin Assistant

    Horseshoe Crab + Hermetic Study + Sigil of Sleep. Use counters to protect, Accumulated Knowledge to draw, Brainstorm to protect your hand from Duress. Blue Elemental Blast/Hydroblast (since red is so obviously sick). Lots of Islands.

    If you can use uncommons, Curiousity goes with Flying Men (or a suitable replacement if you can't find the men) rather nicely.

    Just off the top of my head. I'm sure you can do better.

    Though given the option I think I'd go with green/white. First-striking rancored guys seem like fun to me. But I'm weird.
  17. Killerbob Official CPA European Guy

    Of course the crab-deck doesnt work. And I would beat your curiosity deck any time with burn.

    Its possible to make decks, but in an environment like this removal seems important. Of course you can play 2-color, but I guess that isnt so easy since most uncommon "duals" arent very good. And using uncommon spots for land isnt attractice anyway. Lots of games will be lost on manaproblems.

    I´m not saying that monoblue is impossible, but...difficult.
    Why is blue good in normal t1? It has p9, Fow and it beats combo. None of these advantages is carried over in peasant magic. The lack of combodecks in peasant is a big advantage to red though. Or any beatdown deck.

    Monoblack is a little slow to beat burn, but I think the inclusion of one card might turn the match to blacks favor -spinning darkness. This seems like a very strong card in this invironment.
  18. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    If there's sideboarding, burn's appeal drops somewhat...

    Burn player: All right, I'll Chain Lightning you or something, and then maybe like a Flame Rift. Yeah, there we go. You must be hurting right now...
    Opponent: Okay, finally drew Story Circle. You lose. Oh, and I'll side in my CoP: Reds next game, you lose again.
    Burn player: Well, I have some Cursed Scrolls in my binder. But they're rare...

    Whereas...

    MBC player: Pestilence.
    Opponent: That's okay. I can play Story Circle next turn.
    MBC player: Duress.
    Opponent: That's okay, I'll side in CoP: Black or Karma or something...
    MBC player: Dark Ritual, Gloom.
    Opponent: What? We haven't even sideboarded yet...
    MBC player: Duress.
    Opponent: We haven't started playing yet. I don't even have a hand.
    MBC player: Oh? Well we'll fix that. Ancestral Recall.
    Opponent: What? That's stupid. And you're cheating. Ancestral Recall is a rare. It's not even legal in this format.
    MBC player: Yes, but black's commons are so good that it only appears that I am playing with Ancestral Recall...
  19. Chaos Turtle Demiurgic CPA Member, Admin Assistant

    What do you mean when you say the crab deck doesn't work? It may not be amazing, but it does work.

    Yes, burn will kill Flying Men with Curiousity on it, much as it will kill pretty much any other non-pro:red creature with toughness less than the damage the burn spell deals. Obviously, one would not just throw one's threats down onto the table to be burned away. To play a blue common deck effectively, one would need to use a little strategy.

    Intervene and Disrupt are also pretty good against burn, no?
    By the way I'm thinking that Viridian Longbow (assuming there's no rule against equipment) beats Hermetic Study on account of it's 1-drop nature and the fact that you can put it on anything, then move it to the crab when it shows up.

    Anyhow, I must have misunderstood what you meant by "hard to play." I thought you were saying you couldn't make a deck that would be playable. Maybe you meant that it would just be too difficult to play.

    If so, my bad. If not, then give it a try.
  20. train The Wildcard!!!...

    My first go at peasant...

    Smiley v.1.0
    Eradicate x2
    Gaea's Blessing x3

    order of the ebon hand x3
    river boa x3
    blastoderm x4
    yavimaya elder x3
    faceless butcher x4

    diabolic edict x4
    dark banishing x3
    moment's peace x2
    rancor x3
    Naturalize x2
    drain life x3
    hurricane x1
    slagwurm armor
    whispersilk cloak

    Maze of Ith x2
    Forest x9
    Swamp x9

    Sideboard:
    Tanglebloom x2
    Broken Fall x2
    Multani's Decree x3
    disciple of malice x3
    Fallen cleric x2
    Cemetery Gate x3

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