Breeding.... is it ethical?

[Svenmonkey]

Originally posted by TomB

Of course it's ethical to "breed". It's called "propagating the species", and the mechanism by which it is accomplished is actually kind of fun to partake in...

First, "propagating the species" isn't necessary at this point, the species has already "propagated" itself far beyond Earth's capacity. And, if you want to partake in the "fun," get a friggin' condom.

And, Spiderman, I can't stand the term "play God." We destroy the natural balance and exterminate thousands of species, but now doing genetic research and selective breeding is "playing God?"

And, almost off-topic, most hunters around here reason that hunting is perfectly fine because the deer are "overpopulated." Now what's overpopulated? Under this same reasoning, why don't we have a 6-month human season? That would be some fun.

Note: Typed and posted while stuck at a children's school with my mother. That might explain the anger.

 

[train]

Note: Typed and posted while stuck at a children's school with my mother. That might explain the anger.

Are you not in school Sven???...

 

[Spiderman]

It depends how you view yourself and the human race's in the world. If you consider the human race to be paramount and must survive at any cost, then there's not a contradiction. If you don't....

Obviously genetic research wasn't part of the topic and is a whole new can of worms.

What selective breeding? Being able to choose a donor's sperm or egg?

My impression is that hunters don't care if the deer are overpopulated, they're just glad it gives them a more "legit" reason to hunt. It's the animal management people who take that view and really, with the lack of deer's natural predators, it makes good sense to me.

Some good books are Hunter/Victim or The 10th Hunt which gives hunting humans (consenting, of course) a man-made solution to overpopulation (they're science-fiction, not to be taken "for real").

 

[train]

The Running Man - there's a way to lose people.... Gameshow time baby!!!

 

[EricBess]

Originally posted by Svenmonkey
First, "propagating the species" isn't necessary at this point, the species has already "propagated" itself far beyond Earth's capacity.

By your profile, Sven, 17. Same questions I asked X, what evidence do you have to support a claim that the earth has been propagated beyond it's capacity?

I really don't think there's much to add. I think Spidey's done a good job of saying everything that I would want to say. BTW, Spidey, unless they changed the name, the book is called, "The 10th Victim". There is a third book (at least) in the series, but it's name escapes me. I believe there were plans to make a movie of "The 10th Victim", but I don't know if they ever did. Perhaps that explains a name change also for all I know. There's a shotgun wedding that would be interesting to see on the big screen.

train, there is nothing in the LDS faith that preaches propagation. You may have dated an LDS girl, but it seems there may be a few minor details that weren't carried across quite right

 

[Spiderman]

Yeah, that's it. I only have two of the books and it's been a while since I've read so... <shrug>

 

[EricBess]

I found it. The third (actually, I think second, if I remember correctly) is "Victim Prime". I don't remember much about it other than that there is a rather interesting scene in an ice skating rink.

 

[Svenmonkey]

Originally posted by train:

Are you not in school Sven???...

I'm usually in school, but today I had a testing day (I took the hilariously easy PSAT) and I got out at 11:15. Unfortunately, my mother works at a children's school, and I had to stay there after I got picked up.

Originally posted by EricBess:

Same questions I asked X, what evidence do you have to support a claim that the earth has been propagated beyond it's capacity?

I don't have any evidence, really, except that the earth has a finite amount of resources, and, considering the amount an average American uses, I quite doubt that we can sustain our resources for very much longer.

Try to find somewhere around you where you could walk around and not encounter other people. It's extremely hard here, and I live in what's left of the forest. Unfortunately that forest has been divided by roads and houses, and I can see to the other side of our section. It's sad, if you ask me.

 

[EricBess]

Most people live around people. That's what cities and towns are Get outside the cities and there's tons of countryside without a soul in site. Do you live in a large city, Sven (the outskirts, at any rate)?

I do agree that we tend to do a lot of clearcutting when there are other areas we could extend to instead, but we're not in any danger of running out of room just yet.

Something to keep in mind. Most of the information we get about our world comes from the media. And quite frankly, they're out to sell a product and doomsaying sells.

I'm not saying we shouldn't be careful. We certainly should do everything we can to conserve, but I think you'll find that we have far more than enough. In fact, we probably have enough excess to feed a lot of hungry people.

If you know anything about American history around the time of the great depression, you know what I'm talking about. Plans were put into place to help stimulate the economy. Part of those plans involved subsidising farmers who weren't able to sell their crop. To this day, there are farms that get paid by the government to let food go to rot in their silos.

 

[Svenmonkey]

I live about 40 or 50 miles away from the outskirts of a city, actually. There are still people everywhere. It is sort of suburban, though, but there aren't any commercial areas at all. The closest store of any kind is the mini-mart at the gas station 5 miles from here.

 

[Ferret]

Oh, mellow out. It's all in fun. I'm a recovering Catholic as it is...

-Ferret

"..and it's not like they don't have it coming..."

 

[Spiderman]

Do you have any "wilderness" parks around or are you trying to use an "uncontrolled" area as an example?

Americans (and perhaps other citizens of other industrialized countries) do tend to leave a lot of excess waste, at least concerning food. That saying from your mom "eat this 'cause there are starving children elsewhere" does hold true. Unfortunately, it's a bit harder to get food and aid over to the places that need it. But just by looking at food kitchens in the US and what they can get from donors is pretty amazing in what consumers don't want, like dented cans and vegetables...

 

[train]

EricBess -

God also commanded the man and woman “to multiply and replenish the earth” (Genesis 1:28)—that is, to have children. Another central purpose of marriage is to bring children into the world within a family. - source www.mormon.org

Is this in every bible, yes, but...

This is listed in their Basic Beliefs section on their website... Trust me, it is emphasized greatly through teachings within the church and supported wholly by members... They want you to reproduce...

Why do you think Polygamy became such an issue, as it existed within this religion, it wasn't a social aspect - it was God's will, according to John Smith... So they instituted Polygamy and would be able to multiply...

No other christian religions instituted Polygamy - just CoJCoLDS...

So,

Propagate - I command thee!!!

 

[EricBess]

Sure, train, if you want to take things out of context

Continuing with the section you quoted:

Marriage and family are central focal points in God’s plan for the eternal destiny of his children. Our Heavenly Father hopes that we will do all we can during our time on Earth to prepare ourselves and our children to live in an eternal family.

Yes, families are emphasized greatly throughout the teachings of the church, but trust me, there are no teachings within the church that tell any members how large their families should be. In fact, what is emphasized is the fact that this is a personal decision between each family and the Lord.

Yes, Mormon families tend to be larger than many, but it has nothing to do with the church telling them to reproduce.

Concerning Poligamy, there is a lot more to that than what you are saying here. To truely understand it, you have to understand the history of the church. Unless there is a large demand to discuss it, I'll leave that for another discussion. I'm not sure who John Smith is.

Actually, that's not quite true. I do know who you are talking about. It's Joseph Smith. But it's good to see you've done your homework (just ribbing you a bit)

That's a great website, BTW.

 

[train]

I got john smith from the name of a store manager I was assisting at the time - sorry... I was multitasking, without my sanity checker... happens often when you work for a corporate office, 7 super markets, and 140 convenience stores...

I agree - there isn't a definite number a family is supposed to be, but honestly, I would expect more from the catholics... size of family I mean...

As for the taking it out of context - I understand where you're coming from, but I know not of aother religious institution that mentions multiplying and replenishing the earth within their Basic Beliefs... That is something left for individuals, not the church, to come across in other religions... It's even occasionally brought up in sermons, but not overly emphasized.

As for discussing it - Elder Fly and Elder (eludes me) have visited my home 3 times in the last month... They're pretty nice guys... I now have my own book of mormon - to compliment my king james version, and various other religious books...

I will say - Mormons(laymen terms here) are the closest knit families I've ever seen, honestly, I wish every family could experience what they have......

I also find it a little distinct that they pray according to a model for prayer...

 

[EricBess]

That's great, train.

Seriously, if you have any questions, PM me. That goes for anyone else, too.

 

[Svenmonkey]

Isn't child abuse a big problem in Mormon households? I don't really know, but I saw a television program where they "rescued" some children from abusive, polygamist Mormon families (It was probably 48 Hours or one of those shows). I've heard that this is a problem in Amish society, too (not to compare). I think one of the children had been raped several times by her father . I wish there were a Mister Yuk smiley.

 

[train]

Spidey - can we have a "Mr Yuck" face for posts? pretty please!!!!!!!!!!

I'll obstain on the abuse question...

 

[EricBess]

Originally posted by Svenmonkey
I saw a television program where they "rescued" some children from abusive, polygamist Mormon families.

Mormon's don't currently practice polygamy, so if this is what you saw, it wasn't the Mormons. At least not from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (the official name of the church, thus LDS). There are other groups that refer to themselves as Mormons, or "reorganized Mormons", among other things, that still practice polygamy.

Now, I'm not going to say that abuse never happens in LDS families, because I know for a fact that it does. But I would say that I doubt it is any larger problem among Mormons than among any other group of people. It may not be a lesser problem among LDS people, either, but it is certainly more of a scandal when that type of thing does occur in an LDS home.

Rest assured that it is made very clear that such things are an abomination. People are imperfect and the church will work with people to try to get them help if needed, but it will never condone that sort of behavior.

 

[train]

Right EB - and people committing those crimes should be taken to the temple in Utah and lashed until they bleed, then stoned, then quartered, then gutted... oh wait a minute... I fell asleep with the TV on again(braveheart do tell) and my mind has been programmed by the government so that i'll obey their every command!!!

Dang Gov't.!!!

Where's my Coat - ahhhhhh, that hits the spot!!!