Betrayers of Kamigawa Preview at WOTC

Discussion in 'General CPA Stuff' started by Spiderman, Jan 10, 2005.

  1. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

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  2. jorael Craptacular!

    I really like it. The whole ninjitsu mechanic sounds like fun (...ornithopter....) and not too broken. Spells become cheaper but not without some kind of interaction with an opponent (attacking, not being blocked)

    The block already puts a great emphasis on combat (bushido) and I find the sneakiness of this more interesting than bushido (all those samurai are pretty boring if you ask me).

    I wonder how crippling it would be for your tempo if you use the ninjitsu ability of a creature just to see it get detroyed by a rend flesh (or for the smaller ninja's also red burn).....? Still, its going to be a cool combat mechanic for multiplayer, IMO.
  3. Nightstalkers Creature — Nightstalker

    Gotta love ninjas.

    I like'em!

    They have this speciful ability, and they are in the right color for once. Next we'll get some neat little instants that pull tricks too.
  4. Notepad Seffy Sefro

    I really don't like this guy. Fun for the user? Definitely. Fun for the victim? Oh, hell no.

    Four mana for a blue 3/4 that can pump to make himself and others unblockable, and then tutor for more broken goodness? Jeez, yeah, this will be easy to deal with in casual games.

    He woulda been just fine without the pump ability. I like the theme and all, but I'm in Isty's side of the court in disliking the abusiveness of these guys.
  5. Reverend Love New Member

    Yea SeFRo. This dude is pretty fat and furious. It's not so much the size for the cost, nor his ability to tutor. It's his built in evasion. Which lets him and the other combat centered Ninjas pull their tricks off every turn.

    With this dude in the set I doubt we'll be seeing like:

    "If Ninja X damages an opponent, that opponent sacrifices a creature"

    Too dirty.

    In draft the Ninja are money. Easily splashable.
  6. Notepad Seffy Sefro

    That's exactly what I was saying. ;) I somewhat like the idea of this card, but the evasion pump just puts this guy over the limit.

    Oh, and 3/4 for four mana is certainly a royal pain. Not much direct damage around that can kill it effectively. Hell, not even the old days of Incinerate and Lightning Bolt had good ways of getting rid of such, why Wildfire Emmisary was so damned good (along with Pro White) because a four toughness is essentially Pro Red, unless the opponent makes for some sick card disadvantage. In casual, it will be a nightmare (How sad Flametongue Kavus aren't so readily available anymore).

    That does exist, sadly. (Spoilers trickling out already).

    These things are gonna be hella abusive, especially with unblockability.
  7. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    the evasion is only going to work next turn, not the turn you put him out with his ninjitsu ability. Remember when "unblockability" is determined... after declare blockers. So that's the first chance you're going to be able to use his ability and of course, by then you can't make an attacker "unblocked", by that point, he's already unblocked or blocked.
  8. Notepad Seffy Sefro

    I'm not saying he'd make a chain reaction the turn you brought him out. What I mean is, turn after turn, this guy will make a situation that quickly builds momentum and goes out of control (like an unstopped elf deck). He is bad enough with unblockability. Imagine sac-critter ninjas, card drawing ninjas, etc, all of whom get tutored right up and out to play the next turn.

    Frankly, if you aren't packing fast burn, or mass kill, I see casual decks having problems with a well-built (and HIGHLY abusive) ninja deck. Then again, WotC makes stuff easy to build, and the ninjas are abusive on their own.
  9. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    It could have the potential to cause mischief, but I'm willing to bet that there will be some cards (if not already existing) that will say "all attacking creatures are considered blocked". Plus the 'ol "can't use activated abilities" -type spells...
  10. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

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  11. Reverend Love New Member

    The turn he comes out it's already too late, unless you can deal with him.

    Next combat phase him and the ninja you tutored for prior let's say draw ninja attack unblocked due in thanks to his nifty ability. Once damage triggers their abilities search for another draw ninja, draw from draw ninja's ability. Rinse cycle repeat.

    Is it broke? Probably not, unless there is some seriously broke ninja's I'm not aware of (very possible).

    Is it cheasy and powerful? Yep, I think so. Think about all the "sucky" cards that work perfectly with'ol shadow ninja here.

    Coastal Piracy
    Noble Purpose
    Nature's Will +Agravated Assault = Game
    Savage Beating
    Larceny

    And countless others. Ninjas will be very fun for us who like combining crappy cards for cool effects.
  12. Notepad Seffy Sefro

    Wow, Fumiko is everything Alongi mentioned in his article. Hard to say anything more about her power, and her need for balance in your games.

    That over with, I'm glad I try to pack kill and burn in every deck. Though, I'm really hoping people play her in multiplayer. Then I can look into using blue for bounce (oh my god! TRAITOR sefro!!!!) and have some chaotic fun. :D
  13. TheCasualOblivion 10 year Veteran Newbie

    I just love hearing casual players whine about creatures. Creatures are the most brittle cards in the game. Poof, it dies. You know the drill.

    Still, it amazes me how few creature kill cards casual players actually use. What is even weirder is how surprised people are when I start Terroring and Plowsharing everythging in sight. Wrath of God! I personally don't build decks with fewer than 8 spells that blow creatures up for the most part. Terror, Swords to Plowshares, Pacifism, Dark Banishing, Terminate, Counterspell(and its cousins), Lightning Bolt(and it cousins), Rend Flesh, Fireball(and its cousins) Diabolic Edict. These cards are all very effective, and very easy to get a hold of. Creatures don't need to be that scary.

    As a casual player, I largely refrain from screwing my opponents deck to the point where they're helpless. That being said, I will pack cards to blow up things I consider a threat and not feel the least bit bad about it.

    That being said, the Ninja is scary, but not unreasonable. It dies to the usual things, and I really have the feeling that Ninja decks are not going to have the room for piles of counterspells.

    Its just a threat. Playing cards that are threats works, I try to use as many threats in a deck as possible.
  14. Notepad Seffy Sefro

    You're wrong, TCO. Enchanted Artifact Creature Lands are the most brittle things in the game. ;-)

    Those don't come up that often, though, so Artifact Creatures are really the most brittle.

    Odd then, that Arcbound Ravager is so much trouble. Food for thought on how even in a tournament setting, a lowly creature can be something to soil yourself over. ;)

    (Not that I ever would soil myself over a creature. I'm just royaly fuming over the fact I have to deal with onslaughts of mindless ninja decks for some time. Why can't I kill a variety deck anymore? :D)
  15. TheCasualOblivion 10 year Veteran Newbie

    I'm kind of less scared of Ninja that way, two reasons:

    1. You can't pack just Ninja. I have a strong feeling none of them are going to be cost effective to hard cast. Ninja decks are going to have to play a lot of non-ninja creatures or be terribly slow.

    2. These are really aggressive cards. They do their nastiness when they deal combat damage, and they requires an unblocked attacker to Ninjutsu them. This evokes 25+ creature decks to me. Sure you could go with cheap shadow fliers to Ninjutsu things, but once the Ninja are out, they would stall. You would seem to need to keep attacking with massive numbers of creatures to maximize ninja, aka 25 or so creatures in the deck. That doesn't leave a lot of room for utility or disruption or countermagic.

    I have a feeling we'll be seeing more bad Ninja decks than anything else for a while. People just aren't going to know how to get the most out of them. I also have a strong feeling that Ninjas are going to be like cards such as Balance, or Counterspells, or Nantuko Husk, where they are only as effective as the player playing them. Certain cards any moron can play, other cards are more effective, the more effective you personally are. I suspect Ninja will be in the second half of that, and thats why I see the bad Ninja decks coming.

    Just like my old Tempest days playing against bad Sligh decks and bad Suicide Black decks. Joy.
  16. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

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  17. Notepad Seffy Sefro

    This card I like very much. Abusive, with the right deck, but not outright stupid like ninjas. You won't be flooded with Toshi spammage in your casual circles. yay!

    That said, the flavor of the card is just freaking wrong! Having read the CHK book I am a *huge* fan of Toshi. He's right up there with Chainer as awesome protagonist characters who happen to be black.

    Yeah, he uses a samurai sword, but he didn't really use it effectively. His main weapon was kanji magic. That, despite claims on Monday on Mtg.com, is not well represented by the card's ability. This seems more like a spirit-power ability, or a reanimator type thing. Doh!

    A nice ability, just not really that fitting. At least his card is leaps and bounds better than Chainer's.
  18. Istanbul Sucker MCs call me sire.

    Toshiro + Ray of Command + Carrion Feeder = I'll take that one, and that one, and that one...oh, those are yours? No, I don't mind, I'll take them anyway...
  19. DÛke Memento Mori

    Am I missing something here?...

    Does it mean that we can play the instant without paying its mana cost?...no? No...I don't read that on the card. Why is it good again?

    Oh...it's not.

    A hype card, a successful one at that, and a casual one too. No more.

    Aside the flavor, this should have been an Enchantment, not a weakling.
  20. Notepad Seffy Sefro

    Duke, you're right, it will be a hype card. You will, however, find some casual games where he's abused. Then again, people who do that would be better off just using Yawgmoth's Will. Jeez.

    Toshi is still a very nice creature. Perfect choice for just about any black deck that has lots of kill, as kill tends to be instant in black.

    btw--In the book is he called Toshi for short like 99% of the time his name is mentioned, even by the narrator. So, tis 'k to be lazy and not type out the extra "ro" :D

    Removed from game, Isty. You can't infinitely recycle the spells. Just like Yawg's Will. Would be fun to do this turn after turn, though. :D

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