Assault of the Sno-Demons Part Two: Revenge of the Rain Sprites

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Zhaneel, Feb 22, 2003.

  1. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    train: It was several of them, but probably under five. They were the root cause of why the Political Forum was created although ironically, they aren't in there but in Off-Topic.

    DUke: Well, no, when you use words that someone doesn't understand (or the whole conversation), that person can deem the conversation (or you) "mysterious" or "cryptic". But like you said, it has different connotations to different people.

    However, I think it depends what "tenure" or status the professor has in the college. Some might be working somewhere else, the science ones may be working on experiments and/or papers, humanities professors might be doing something else. That's usually why they have specific office hours; 'cause they're doing something.

    And of course, some might work full-time at the college and just teach classes so they have loads of free time.
  2. DÛke Memento Mori

    ...
    Am I reading your correctly? Whatever happened to admitting that such people either lack, do not really intend to care about the issue, or are just simply and plainly stupid? The point is, at least some one understand swhat I had written before (and in school, everyone does), this makes us lacking? I must admit, I have never seen such logic, for someone to openly admit that a lack of understanding occuring because a lack of background on words is blamed on the writer, not the reader!

    In any event, though, I am talking about the professors, who as I have said before, understand and enjoy my writing. I am not talking about those who call me "cryptic" or whatever it is they choose to fling at me...

    People understand me. Therefore I am understood. In this case, the rest...they do not matter.
  3. EricBess Active Member

    I think I see where Spidey is coming from, though. In technical writing, for example, one of the purposes of the class is to learn how to write in a manner that is easy to understand. If the paper is hard to follow, it should be graded down because of it.

    So, it entirely depends on the class and the purpose of the assignment. What should never happen is to be marked down because the teacher simply doesn't agree with you. As long as you are able to state you case clearly and back it up, the teacher should be able to put aside personal bias.

    I would think in philosophy (and similar humanities-type) classes, a "higher" writing style would be encouraged. By that, I mean that it is sometimes necessary to not write to the masses. "Cryptic" is sometimes good because it forces the reader to think.

    I personally don't like clarity to ever be sacrificed for content, but then again, I'm not a big subscriber to that line of thought anyway. Which is why I'll stick with the technical and let other people debate the theoretical.

    But Duke, from what you've said, they enjoy your work, which implies that they understand it. That being the case, they should tell you why you are getting marked down. Is it simply because they don't agree with you? In which case, they have no basis. If it is because the paper has a specific focus or purpose, then they need to make sure that it is clear what that is and that it is appropriate for the class.
  4. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    DUke: EricBess has kind of hit it and this is pretty much what I was trying to explain two posts of mine up where I said "this is hard to explain". Basically, you are using "big words" and then blaming others when they fail to understand you. While that is surely your right, it might also behoove you to re-explain what you're trying to say in other terms that they may be able to understand. Otherwise, it really doesn't do you or anyone else any good to complain that people don't get you.

    Obviously this doesn't apply to the people who DO understand you at your "original level", since it appears they share a common thought process anyway.
  5. DÛke Memento Mori

    ...

    What in the world is going on here?

    Where the heck did I even suggest that was "misunderstood" or "hard to understand?" That is, I'm afraid, a thing completely in your minds...

    ...in fact, have I not, very early, stated that I am acknolwedged completely?

    Where you guys form your cases is something that is cryptic to me...

    My "complaint" was against the teachers unable to accept me. They, how should I put this more obviously, understand me, they simply do not wish for me to write about "different subjects," non-conventional subjects, dislike colorful writing and only want dry, unreadable research that anyone can do, aside from all the artitistic styles that writing can involve, from metaphors, allusions, all such subtilities.

    Yes, I had a paper that was "great," I had good research, good quotes, good everything, except unconventional style. For example, 3 times, I used "..." instead of just ".". 3 times I ended a paragraph with "and..." and there was not anything after the "and..." Of course, it made much sense in the context of the paper...but it was not "conventional," it was easy to read and consistent, but beyond grammer rules a little, had a sarcastic instances, etc...

    ...for that my grade has 6 times been taken down. One time, in my creative writing class, we spent the whole hour analyzing a story I had written simply because the "style" was different and "strange." The teacher, at the end, demanded of me to change the style. It was a CREATIVE writing class for my sake!

    I am understood. I am, simply put, disrespected by scholars because I actually write.
  6. EricBess Active Member

    No harm done, Duke. I think there was an assumption that the style questions were making the papers hard to read and understand.

    I have a big pet peeve when it comes to graduate student know-it-alls who don't like certain things. I had a creative writing class once where we were supposed to write from the perspective of anything we wanted. I wrote a lovely tale about a dragon who is wrongfully blamed when a princess goes missing and the toasts the knight who is sent out to rescue the princess. But, he gets poked in the process and has to go and torch the village "to save face". The comment the "teacher" made was that no one saw the incedent that was still alive, so who was he saving face from, "...is this dragon logic at its best?..." That was the only comment on the entire paper and I got a B. Um...who was she to tell me how my dragon was supposed to view the world?

    In your case, Duke, it sounds like the issue is that your teachers are trying to enforce grammer rules where there is no reason for it. The point of grammer rules is to enhance comprehension. In high school, when the point is to learn grammer, you should be graded down for poor grammer because you are trying to learn grammer. By college, you should have enough understanding of grammer rules to know how to increase comprehention through NOT following the rules.

    Not having read your papers, I can't really make a stance, but I've had enough bad experiences to believe you at face value. If "poor" grammer distracts from the point, then it should be marked down. However, if "poor" grammer enhances the point, it should be commended. Note that I say "poor" when what I mean is not following the rules.

    Anyway, Duke, here's a news flash for you. You went to college to learn. What are you learning? You are learning that there are a lot of close-minded people in the world and that most people like things done their way. That's the real world. Welcome to it :eek:
  7. Svenmonkey Pants Chancellor

    You just misspelled grammar 8 times! Aaaa!
  8. DÛke Memento Mori

    ...

    And that is the point, Eric. We all learned these language rules starting very early in middle school, all throughout high school, and they try to impose them in college too? When do we simply get to be ourselves? I have no clue. But if I am learning that there are a lot of "closed-minded" people in the world - I knew that already. Have I not been banned from sites? Have I not been in MTGnews? Have I not see the CPA? Have I not traveled from the Middle East to the United States, where the first time ever, I heard of "closed-mindedness"...was it all not a lesson in a sense? I am already a graduate. :) Trust me.

    Sven, what do you expect? Me to be perfect? Or that midterms are coming up and you want me to keep my sanity? :) You can quote me on this: sanity and higher-education do not go together.
  9. Svenmonkey Pants Chancellor

    I wasn't talking about you, DÛke... It was EricBess who misspelled grammar 8 times. :p

    Apparently your sanity theory is correct.
  10. DÛke Memento Mori

    ...

    I told you!

    But seriously, I think I should visit a therapist of some sort...I've been considering the possibilities that I may have early symptoms of attention deficit disorder, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia (I've been having some auditory hallucinations)…

    Oaaah...who knows...

    <sits down and listens to the music that is not playing, the voices that are not speaking, and avoids the ghosts that are not there...>
  11. Svenmonkey Pants Chancellor

    The shower drain talked to me a bit yesterday, but that's the extent of my insanity. The only thing that makes me truly crazy is more than 48 hours of sleep deprivation, which I've only done once.
  12. Mazzak Stylemongering Protodeity

    Given the huge amount of work heaped on me at the last minute (and my tendency to play magic with my friends and do work at roughly the same time) I am now on about hour 24 and am currently infused with a good deal of caffeine. Riding the elevator all night in this state has let my sense of gravity off but hey, I figured out an ingenious way to complete an incredibly difficult project which is due tomorrow, all I need is some aluminum foil.
    ( I have to copy my amulet, and its chain, in plasteline, the sculpting medium from hell. It is sticky. It does not dry. It is squishy. Doing any delicate work in it is totally futile which is why everyone else in the class took on such daring projects as wallets, plastic winnie-the-pooh keychains, etc. I took on a shiny, intricate copper thing and the delicate chain that goes along with it. Then whatever shall I do, you ask? Why, make a mold of the amulet out of aluminum foil, melt down some plasteline with a lighter (it works, I've tried it, it's wax based so it makes sense) and pour...more like shovel actually 'cause it never goes totally liquid, but anyhow voila, stunning piece done in the worst medium possible but quite well articulated.. haha.
    Back up to the common room, where I shall listen to techno musik which is indeed playing, and heat up some smelly plasteline which will most likely not say a word.
    COCOA PUFFS
  13. Svenmonkey Pants Chancellor

    Cocoa puffs are so deer turds.
  14. train The Wildcard!!!...

    or rabbit pellets...
  15. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    DUke:
    Sorry, my bad. For some reason I was thinking this morphed into everyone you talked to, not just teachers.

    Not seeing your paper, I can't comment. But for first impressions, that "and" at the end of a paragraph would probably bug the heck outta me :)

    EricBess:
    "Should" is the ideal but "actually have" is probably the reality. I'm sure you can either get stories from the Net or from real-life from college admission folk about how poor admittance essays are written. And if a student is writing poorly then, they're probably not going to improve noticeably once they start taking classes (unless the class itself is grammar improvement). I wouldn't take that for granted at all.

    Svenmonkey:
    LOL! :)
  16. DÛke Memento Mori

    ...

    See, if it bugs you, I can understand, Spiderman, but if that is your only reason (which is the reason of all teachers), then I do not believe that you would have the right to tell me that I am wrong, because then you would have to contrast the wrong with whatever "right" you might have, and seeing your reasoning, the only right you might have is that...it bugs you. :)

    So...um...no...
  17. train The Wildcard!!!...

    I....

    said...

    Rabbit pellets!!!....

    :cool:
  18. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Well, like I said, I don't know the class, assignment, or any of the other details, so I can't say whether the teacher would "most likely" be justified in rejecting your style of writing.

    But to me personally, there's a reason why there's stuff called "punctuation marks" and why there's a writing medium and a speaking medium. And using "and..." seems more suited to the latter.
  19. EricBess Active Member

    It's about understanding. If the "and..." is such that it is distracting, then I think that it warrents being marked off. However, if it is written in such a way that it leads a reader to think without being distracting, then it should be commended.

    Spidey, when you say that this is the point ("should"), I agree with you. But just simply disobeying grammar "rules" should not be an automatic mark down unless it really is distracting or confusing. I won't take any additional stance on whether or not the teacher is justified because I don't know what the context is completely.

    And Mazzak, I've never claimed to spell well. I understand grammar rules reasonably well, but I'll double check my spelling as soon as Ed installs a spell checker in this text box (read: "never"). I'm surprised that I was able to misspell it 8 times, but you were actually able to deduce the word that I intended. Amazing! :D And yet, I probably would have been marked down for it.
  20. Mazzak Stylemongering Protodeity

    proof of this in the fact that you spelled Svenmonkey as "Mazzak" by accident... :p

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