A Radical Sugestion

Discussion in 'CPA/WOTC Magic Issues' started by Rando, Apr 23, 2002.

  1. Rando Freaky Bear

    To watch the CPA limp along, pretending to still be a Magic site is kinda sad. It's like watching Fat Elvis as opposed to young, healthy Elvis...same guy, but he just ain't workin' it like he used to.

    So, even though I know that this will be shot down quick as you can say "You're a morron", I put forward this...

    Restructure the CPA into one of the following two things...

    1 A multi-topic community message board ala' Nightly.net.
    Would the conversation around here change in content much? No. There could be several different topic areas, and the community is maintained. Also, it would grant opinionated members a chance to write real articles about real issues.

    2 A general gaming site...of which none exist.
    If there is a website devoted to gaming in general, then I have never run across it. They are all divided by genre, company, or specific game. Many, MANY of us here play more then just Magic, and this would provide the chance for more articles, more conversation, and more exposure. Another good thing about this approach is that the name, Casual Player's Alliance, would stay relevant.

    So, that's my idea. All either would take is a restructuring of the boards and a change in attitude. You may begin belittling me...now.
  2. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Not sure about the first. I kinda addressed the second in another thread; I think trying to be "general" is a bad idea. You either have to go for it all or not. Otherwise, there's better sites out there for each particular genre that people would probably feel better going to anyway (interviews, mods, previews, whatever).
  3. Rando Freaky Bear

    Well, I think it could work.

    ...and you'd end up with about 100 pages of articles from me at the very least.

    ...not that that's gonna sway anyone, but I think that there are others that feel the same way and would be more willing to produce content for games that aren't as elitist as Magic. No one will openly call you an idiot for writing an article about why you think levels 1 through 5 five are the most fun to play in D&D.
  4. rkoelsch Angel Boy

    I am not so sure that selection number 2 is not the correct one. I think one of the things that keeps people coming back is that we all seem to enjoy gaming. Not just Magic per se but many types of gaming. Look at the people involved in RPG's or the many other games like Eric Bess's Shipwrecked or Warriors. We are already kind of general anyway. If you look in the past when the site was active, we had tournament decks, multiplayer decks, people teaching others Magic the whole spectrum of the Magic Experience. As more of us tried our hand at tournament Magic, I was one that thought about playing competetively, we ignored the multiplayer and beginner and truly casual Magic players. When they found themselves as leftout here as elsewhere they moved on. I think we have just started to take ourselves way to seriously here. Ransac runs around and tries to bring it back to the the more light hearted site this is meant to be. We are gamers interested in having fun. Let us try and get the fun back into this site. In my own feeble attempt let me start a dance.

    ( you have to picture an overweight older man making gyrations like he is being proded by cattle prods :eek: )
  5. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Heh, I betcha there'd people who would... if they came here after the word of mouth or whatever.

    Well, I'll be willing to go with whatever.
  6. Rando Freaky Bear

    Well, ok, some people would call you an idiot for that. But what I meant is that there is no "right" or "wrong" in most other games. You can come at D&D from an infinate number of angles, and none is more right then the other.

    But, there are rights and wrongs in MAgic, and if your ideas or theorys are not right, then you get flamed and laughed at. I think this discourages a lot of people from sharing thier ideas, because they know that there is accepted docterine in Magic to go by and if you don't follow it, then you are wrong.
  7. Rando Freaky Bear

    The way I see it, the forums would be condensed down to...

    Other CCG
    Other Roleplaying
    Other War Games
    Video Games
    Traditional Card and Board Games
    Off Topic
    Persorsals / Want Ads / Trades
    Battle Arena

    ...and perhaps a general site forum too, or one for home-made games. I don't know...I just don't know...just trying to help.
  8. rkoelsch Angel Boy

    I hope when you say this that you are really talking about the preceived right and wrong because I feel that the right and wrong can differ by situation. I will use myself as an example. I have been playing for a long time but I am no longer trying to "hone" my skills to perfection. If I had a group of friend that played casually I probably wouldn't buy any more cards. But I don't so I go to a local card shop and play T2. I don't go out and spend outrageous amounts for cards. I trade for most and buy packs and draft. So when people try and fix my decks I look at the suggestions at see if the suggestion fits the spirit of the deck. I don't add Fact or Fiction to a deck because it is the best blue card. If I need to search and don't mind my opponent knowing what I am drawing I will put it in. I just don't think things are as cut and dry as some people think.
  9. Rando Freaky Bear

    I was speaking more along the lines of serious, tournament Magic. As far as playing multi-player or a pick-up game, or you just don't care, then you can do as you please.

    But, if you seriously want to do well in tournaments, then there are right and wrong choices to be made as far as deck and card selection, and for that mater strategy, go. When you're trying to win, and by win I mean win the tournament, then there's only two plays you can make in any game situation: The right one, and the wrong one.
  10. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Well, it's hard to go by this without examples, but depending on what's being discussed, it's probably a shame that this is so. Especially in regards to cards; some cards are better suited to cutthroat play, some multi, some draft, some both.

    But since Magic has a "set" of rules, like a minimum of 40 cards in a deck, there's some mathematics involved about what size deck is the optimum. What are good mana ratios for the spells in your deck. Should you include the max number of a card allowed in your deck or just one or two copies. Stuff like that is a little more cut n dried (although always subject to revision with the introduction of new concepts, like threshold or cantrips or whatever).

    I like your breakdown of forums, although I think we should see if there's a need for "Other CCGS", "Other RPG", "Other Wargaming" before making separate forums for them.
  11. Gizmo Composite: 1860

    Untrue in almost every way.
  12. Rando Freaky Bear

    Hey, I'm just trying to get some dialouge goin here, cut me some slack.

    As for the "Other" forums, I thought those would be nice since the more popular games in the genre would overshadow the lesser known/played games.

    And I stand by my Right and Wrong statements above. It's a finite game, made even more so by the small number of decks you'll see in any given tournament. Therefore, out of the seven cards in your hand that you can play, there's going to be right plays, and wrong plays. This is why people write articles about how to play decks, not just make them. This extends past just playing a match and into deck building as well. If you want 4 burn spells in a type I deck, then Lightning Bolt is the right choice, and Kindle is the wrong one. If you are gathering up creatures for your Sligh deck, then Ball Lightning is a correct choice, and Thundermare is not.

    I concede that what is right and wrong is going to be determined by such factors as type of deck you wish to build, format and the game state, but none-the-less, there are still right and wrong choices to be made.

    I'm not scared to be ridiculed, disagreed with or argued against. But here is a situation as I stated above in which some would at this point think..."See, Gizmo's been there and knows what he's talking about. Why should I bother?" ...and then that same person never voices his or her opinion again...let alone writes an article on it.

    Thank you, Mr. Sutcliffe. I probably am wrong, but I don't care.
  13. BigBlue Magic Jones

    I like #2. I posted another idea above which could intertwine with it. I love the Idea of a general gaming fan site. I'd bet the majority of people here and abroad who play magic do other gaming things. Whether it's RPG, computer RPG, or Console RPG doesn't matter. We could try to become more things for more people. It would take time, but it would be easy to promote yourself. Go to other fan sites or corporate boards and drop a hint. Add a link back to your site from the company site, they do that all the time at most gaming companies.

    The name. Do we need to think about changing the name? I don't think we should, however Casual Gamers Alliance might be better if we went to a multi-game site.
  14. Rando Freaky Bear

    Ooo...ooo...another idea.

    We could have a set of genre-specific moderators/administrators who would post news and articles on the front page. That way, one person with a vested interest in a particular game could dig up news and info, leaving the other mods to do thier own thing. It would keep a small group of people from havng to cover so many different topics.

    I'm starting to wonder what the founders would think in such a change in format though...since it would no longer be the site they created.

    ...better different then dead, though.
  15. MrXarvox The Prettiest Man Alive

    I think I mentioned something like option number 2 in another thread...

    I support this idea of changing the CPA into a General Gaming site, and Rando's breakup of forums looks enticing.
    I think also, that we should have an art forum where members can post pictures/poetry/stories. Only that forum would need members to have picture-posting priveleges. It can't be too bad if it's only one forum though, eh?
    And name-changing? Nah. We'd still be Casual Players even if we were Casual Players of Many Games.
    What would we be allied against? Stupid rules, people who cheat, corrupt governments, the Teletubbies, and much, much more, perhaps?
    There you have it. Casual Players' Alliance still works.

    this has been a suggestion brought to you by MrXarvox, who is good with ideas.
  16. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Maybe I ought to move this to CPA Issues.... ;)

    Actually, even with the same deck, there's certain plays that you may make depending on what deck you face. rakso's been doing that playing "The Deck" vs Sligh and Stacker 2, in his articles at StarCity (plus giving general plays overall with certain cards). And The Deck itself is always evolving, Type 1 members are always discussing whether certain cards should go in or not.

    Anyhoo, you probably have to wait until evening EST to get more Founders/mods input. I'm really the only one on during the day.
  17. Hetemti The Wide-Awake Nightmare

    Well, you don't see general gaming stuff boards because no one thinks "I need info on Xexyz, I'll go to a general game site!" No, they think "I need info on Xexyz...no one's heard of it for over a decade, I'll look for a site on old NES carts and see if something's floading around" (BTW: Xexyz is a craptastical old Hudson Soft game that no one liked. Perfect for my example.)

    And what are you going to do, have a different forum for each game? Or genere? Some games don't fit an archetype, do they get shafted into the Other Stuff bin?

    As for making it general discussion, I can get general discussion anywhere...nearly all boards have some form of chatter room. (Only the best ones don't) So you wouldn't be restructuring the CPA, you'd be removing it and putting another board in, assuming no one'd really notice since no one cares about Magic anyway.


    To be perfectly honest, I think is is the exact opposite of what we need to do. We need to be rid of Off Topic and Battle and New Member Shoutouts and all that spammy crap...at least for a while. This is a place for Casual Players of Magic: the Gathering, not has-beens and moved-ons. That's why it's a lumbering Elvis, it's a giant has-been.

    Why doesn't anyone start Break This Card threads? There's plenty of unexplored chaff in T2, why not make a group effort to invesigate it? Why don't people talk about card games they got together by using the awesome power of the telephone and automobile, rather than whine about having no stores around. Why don't people post interesting Magic-related stuff like they used to? I'll tell you why, becuase people are busy acting like children trying to masturbate their egos by "one-upping" each other in Off Topic with pointless flames that have no meaning beyond the fact that the participants in the flamewar are just as infantile as the people they attempt to assault.


    Elvis must diet.

    How about we cut the fat instead of the protien?
  18. MrXarvox The Prettiest Man Alive

    To kill Off-Topic, Battle Arena, and New Members is to kill the very soul of the CPA.
    If this site became nothing but another stupid magic "tech" site, I for one would not come back, and I feel that that would also be the case with many magic-contributing members. This site would not be worth visiting if it weren't super-casual.
  19. Rando Freaky Bear

    I think your heart is in the right place, but your logic is flawed.

    I just don't think that the community here is cohesive enough anymore to support a total "casual magic" site anymore. I don't think it has been for about 2 years.

    As as for people searching for a specific game...Google.com is a wonderfull thing that would certainly dig up threads and articles located here.
  20. Hetemti The Wide-Awake Nightmare

    I didn't say a .... thing about "tech." All I said it needs to be Magic related. Is that too much to ask? OffTopic is by definition not Magic related. Battle is just for posting flames, which is far from a necessity, and New Members is just a shoutout plus some chatter. If someone wants to make a good first impression, they can bring something to the table other than "Hi, I'm me."

    As for cohesion, yes. It may very well be gone. But it didn't lose itself. It was lost on the path that we are currently following, which is not the path we were on two years ago. It's a radical shift I propose, but maybe it takes action to get something done.

    Google indeed would find threads here, but first it'd find a half dozen dedicated resources to the topic in question, which makes the board thread erronious to the non-boarder. So you can forget about attracting many new members.

    And, of course, if it is a game forum, you will have the influx of 1337 w4r3z m0nk3yz looking for q3 cdk3yz and the like. Is that what we want?

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