Woman priest to marry lesbian lover

[Nightstalkers]

A woman priest and her partner are aiming to become Britain's first legally married lesbian couple.
The Rev Debbie Gaston and Elaine Cook are among three couples set to have same sex weddings in Brighton on December 21.
They will marry a second after midnight on the first day the Civil Partnership Bill legalises same sex weddings.
The Rev Gaston, 46, of the Metropolitan Community Church, and Elaine, 53, have been together for 16 years and they have two children.
She said: "As a vicar I obviously believe whole-heartedly in the concept of marriage and I have married more than 30 couples myself.
"Elaine and I have waited many years to be able to make this kind of commitment to each other and we both see the Civil Partnership Bill as a huge step in the right direction for equality.
"However, we are only part way there. Until I can have a legal ceremony in the eyes of God I will not feel completely fulfilled."
They will marry in a joint ceremony with two other gay couples - Gino Meriano and his partner Mike Ullett; and Roger Lewis, a Sussex Police employee and partner Keith Willmott-Goodall.

 

[DarthFerret]

What kind of "Bill" needs to pass for a marriage to be legal in the eyes of God? I am not going to preach at anyone here, but I do go to church and have read the Bible (still do) and I know that same sex marriage is morally wrong and not condoned by God.

To quote an old funny I heard: God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve!

Now, please do not take this as gay-bashing or anything like that. I have many friends who are gay or bi-sexual, and even though I think it is spiritually wrong, I respect thier decision and never treat them differently than a straight person(s).

 

[Spiderman]

Heh, mythosx and I (mainly, there were some other people too) had this discussion last year in Current Events when Oregon, California, and New Hampshire? was legalizing gay marriage...

 

[evan d]

As a fifteen years old i cannot complain with lesbains. My mind or lack there fo cannot see beyond was is in front of it.

 

[Nightstalkers]

Eh... I don't really care. If it's their choice, it's their choice.

 

[Oversoul]

What kind of "Bill" needs to pass for a marriage to be legal in the eyes of God? I am not going to preach at anyone here, but I do go to church and have read the Bible (still do) and I know that same sex marriage is morally wrong and not condoned by God.

Don't confuse law with morality (or your morals for those of someone else, for that matter).

 

[evan d]

Even though I am about as athesistic as possible, I do have to agree with my latin teacher, marriage in and of it self is a religous act. I also agree that they should not be denied equal rights.

 

[DarthFerret]

Dont get me wrong, I am not condemning homosexuals. All I am trying to point out is that marriage originated from a religous background, and if that same religion dictates that homosexuality is wrong, then there is no reason for marriage to be permissible between same sex couples. If you look at marriage from a legal standpoint soley, then it should be allowed. It is all a matter of point of view. In this case, it is a member of the clergy, trying to perform a religious ceremony that goes against the same religious teachings. Thus, she is creating a paradox, or hypocrisy, for which a lot of religions have recieved a very bad reputation of doing.

The same can be argued of other aspects of life as well. Abortion, Animal Laboratory Testing, Tree-Hugging (oops, was that not politically correct?), Oral Sex in the Oval Office, etc...

If same-sex marriages are becoming sanctioned by a religion, then why not sex outside of marriage, or theft...or rape?

This view may seem extreemist, however, how much better might the world be if we were still allowed to spank our children. Extreemism is evident in everyday life, (tree-hugging for example) and people should learn to be more tolerant of others opininos and lifestyles, and stop forcing the government (or other ruling bodies) to take legal action in the extreem.

I hope this made sense to everybody, since I seem to be having a difficult time putting my opinion and thoughts into words.

 

[orgg]

Evan, if you accept lesbianism, you must accept the other less... 'understandable' form as well. Two sides of a coin.

Me? I really don't care about the issue. To paraphrase Douglas Adams: They're just people, y'know?

 

[Oversoul]

If same-sex marriages are becoming sanctioned by a religion, then why not sex outside of marriage, or theft...or rape?

Religion is also different from law...

 

[Spiderman]

All I am trying to point out is that marriage originated from a religous background, and if that same religion dictates that homosexuality is wrong

I can't remember if in my past discussion mythosx gave me the reference, but perhaps you can help and can tell me where and how specifically marriage originated from the Bible (and of course, that's only from the viewpoint of those who use the Bible) and where it says homosexuality is wrong?

 

[evan d]

Evan, if you accept lesbianism, you must accept the other less... 'understandable' form as well. Two sides of a coin.

Me? I really don't care about the issue. To paraphrase Douglas Adams: They're just people, y'know?

I do accpet the other side of the coin... I just don't want to see that act. Also, I am fine with it becuase it is less competition. Bi guys, I have found little as a positive, but they can continue on living there lifes, just don't make me be a part of it. Thats how I view most things, If it doesn't affect me, I don't care.

 

[DarthFerret]

Homosexuality being wrong from a biblical standpoint, derives from the "sins" of sodomy. Not sure exactly where, but it does state in several instances that a marriage "Sanctioned" by God, is only between a man and a woman. That being said, I myself, as stated previously, have no problem with that behavior. I do not condemn people, or judge them because of thier sexual orientation.

Marriage has been commonly agreed to have derived from "The Church". Although there are records of people agreeing to "mate-for-life" or to be faithful to one another (which in reality is all that a marriage actually is...) dating before the bible's time, the actual marriage contract itself which most national goverments now recognize comes straight from religion itself, be it muslim, islamic, catholic, celtic, etc....

Of course, this whole concept only confirms my belief that there can never be an actual "TRUE" seperation of church and state. I beleive in traditions and laws (and yes I am a christian) and do not think that the few that make up the agnostic (or whatever they call themselves) minority should be allowed to dictate that we change our monetary system (taking "In God We Trust" off of money, or taking the Bible out of the courthouses). I think that the majority should rule, not the lobbyists, or the wealthy and influential individual.

Ok, rant over...back to casual conv.

 

[Oversoul]

Marriage has been commonly agreed to have derived from "The Church"

False if by "the church" you mean a Christian church (and since when has there only been one of those?). Marriage existed thousands of years before Chrisianity.

 

[Spiderman]

He included "Celtic" in his list so I assume all religions. I would explore the more common ones, such as ancient Egyptian mythology, or Native American, or Hinduism and see if that's true (I'm not that interested in doing the legwork myself though )

derives from the "sins" of sodomy. Not sure exactly where, but it does state in several instances that a marriage "Sanctioned" by God, is only between a man and a woman.

I would still be interested in knowing where in both cases AND if the translation was correct.

Then of course, there's that outsider's view that, putting the whole "the Bible was divinely inspired by God" premise aside and just taking it as a historical book, was it written by persons of anti-homosexual views and they saw an opportunity to present it as coming from the High Authority?

 

[evan d]

While we are on Christianity, Hel was the norse God of the Underworld, who which religion is the pagan one, The Hell one or the Hel one. (sounds better when it is spoken.

 

[DarthFerret]

Then of course, there's that outsider's view that, putting the whole "the Bible was divinely inspired by God" premise aside and just taking it as a historical book, was it written by persons of anti-homosexual views and they saw an opportunity to present it as coming from the High Authority?

That is actually a pretty good point. If you read the book of Timothy (which is really Timothys letters to the churches Paul sent him out to begin) you will find that he really places women in general lower than men. There are several instances of this in the Bible. Also, yes, each man's (yes all written by men, even the book of Ruth) personal opinions bleed through a bit, but if you do believe in Christianity, then you have placed your trust in the fact that God would not allow his Book to have become corrupted to the point of being false or misleading. Anyone can turn a phrase on its end and come up with a totally different meaning, and this is commonly done.

No, I am not "preaching" at anyone, I believe that each person should be free to choose what they wish to believe. If a question is asked of me, I will answer it with my own beliefs, but will not ridicule anyone's opinion. (Unless they are mind-numbingly stupid, and then they would not be here, so no worries....)

 

[Oversoul]

...but if you do believe in Christianity, then you have placed your trust in the fact that God would not allow his Book to have become corrupted to the point of being false or misleading. Anyone can turn a phrase on its end and come up with a totally different meaning, and this is commonly done.

So God would only allow it to be corrupted a little bit, but not too much?

Anyway, I've read that there are known mistranslations. There are some points where two different sections of the bible (talking about the same thing) give different numbers. And translations are often markedly different from each other. The Catholic bible has more books than most other versions.

 

[DarthFerret]

So God would only allow it to be corrupted a little bit, but not too much?

Actually, according to the Bible itself, man has freewill and therefore can do some alterations. But, would God allow it to be completely turned on its end? Well, I guess that is up to the theologins to debate....

Anyway, I've read that there are known mistranslations. There are some points where two different sections of the bible (talking about the same thing) give different numbers. And translations are often markedly different from each other. The Catholic bible has more books than most other versions.

For the most part, most of the original scrolls were written in the Hebrew language, which is one of the hardest languages to translate, much less going through all of the translations. For the earlier books of the Bible, most of those were either passed down by word of mouth, or by picture drawings that conveyed the general meaning. Therefore, Oversoul, you are correct. But, once again, would an omniscient and omnipotent being allow his Word to be totally misconstrued?

 

[Oversoul]

But, once again, would an omniscient and omnipotent being allow his Word to be totally misconstrued?

Well, there are numerous Christian sects (an understatement). Many of these sects contradict each other in some way. And some of them will claim that all others are wrong. Even if one of them is 100% right, it still means that the bible was misconstrued by some of the other groups...