What should 7th have?

Discussion in 'General CPA Stuff' started by Dune Echo, Jan 11, 2000.

  1. Dune Echo CPA Founder, Idea Man

    Ferret just mentioned in the Death of Magic topic how we've been suggesting balanced but good cards for the basic set all along. I just would like to know, what should be included in the basic set? I know that one of my first favorite cards was a Craw Wurm. What are great cards that they're missing in the basic set that need to be in tournaments yet are simple enough for the beginner? Ferret, I know you have some thoughts on this, but what does everyone else think needs to be in the basic set for your OWN enjoyment as well as that of a newbie?
  2. K1 New Member

    Hmm... craw wurm. Classic creature.
    Here's a couple more that I remember from my beginning revised days, at least in my play area:
    Lord of the Pit
    Serra Angel
    Sengir Vampire(not too partial to this though)
    Demonic Hordes(doubt it)
    Royal Assassin
    Erg Raiders
    Mahamotti Djinn
    Vesuvan Doppelganger
    Thicket Basilisk
    Scryb Sprites
    Shivan(of course)
    Dragon Whelp
    Benalish Hero(duh... whats banding?)
    Mesa Pegasus(woohoo!)
  3. Zadok001 CPA Founder, Greater Good

    Never did like Lord of the Pit much, myself. I wouldn't want that back.

    The big 'Classics' for me are White and Black Knights. They've been around since day 1, and are very well balanced. If nothing else, I want to get another few to get 4 of each! :) I miss my Knights.
  4. TomB Administrative Assistant

    Aahh, 7th...

    I agree with you guys. BRING BACK SERRA ANGEL! :D

    The rest of the list:
    Sengir Vampire
    Shivan Dragon
    Mahatmoti Djinn
    Savannah Lions
    The Knights, White and Black

    I feel that these creatures helped define their respective colors, and that the game isn't as much fun without them. I still remember how excited I got when I opened a pack of Revised and got a Shivan, and I think new players deserve the same kind of experience.

    I'd also like to see pain-free Dual Lands come back but I doubt that'll ever happen. I think the diversity in decks they allow would help to break the mono-color monotony we're currently seeing dominate the game.

    I'd also like to see some of the more confusing and illogical rules straightened out, especially the end phase, er, step thing
    that had us all up in arms this summer. It'll be interesting to see if WotC can fix that while they're at it!

    CPA Member
  5. Dune Echo CPA Founder, Idea Man

    So the creatures are what "feel" Classic to you? Although I agree that everything you guys have listed were in revised and considered by many if not all to be the "Classic" creatures, I have to disagree with Zadok001 about the Knights being balanced.

    Zadok001-LIKE HELL THEY'RE BALANCED! There, I'm done. For an example of a creature that's weaker and has a worse casting cost, look at Knights of Thorn! They had banding instead of first strike and cost an appropriate 3W!

    I'd just like to see them put in some decent creatures, with or without special abilities, and good core spells. Fireball and Disentigrate were core spells. I'd also like the artifact selection to be better. (Yes, Ferret, I know how you feel about them.) I think to make it classic, it needs to look like this:

    Tundra Wolves
    Healing Salve (at least it's somewhat decent now in limited)
    Serra Angel (Green has undercosted fat, every color needs one at least)
    Wrath of God
    Order of the White Shield (Ice Age Pump Knight)
    Enlightened Tutor

    Air Elemental (Blue does not deserve undercosted creatures with Treachery running around here!)
    Memory Lapse or Mana Leak
    Diminishing Returns
    Mystical Tutor
    Time Warp
    ... a "cloning" creature of some sort...

    Ebon Praetor (Balanced and less dangerous Lord of the Pit, also less controversial)
    Sengir Vampire (Every color needs fat)
    Derelor (Fat with a drawback, cool art)
    Syphon Soul
    Corrupt or Drain Life
    Order of Stromgald
    Culling the Weak (Dark Ritual IMHO is a green ability. Black is all about power at a cost, where's the cost?!)
    Terror/Diabolic Edict
    Vampiric Tutor

    Red: (Here's where I bring out the soapbox.)
    LIGHTNING BOLT! (creatures CAN regenerate from it, it's not overly powerful, and Shock just sucks)
    Chain Lightning (if not Lightning Bolt, then this, it's perfectly balanced, anyone with red can use it right back and it's a sorcery)
    Goblin Raider (unconfusing Ironclaw Orcs)
    Shivan Dragon (Two-Headed's cool, but just not the same)
    Prodigal Sorcerer???? (What was in Garfield's mind that a 3cc 1/1 creature that could deal 1 damage directly should be blue? They already have Counterspells out the ass!)
    Arc Lightning
    Mana Flare
    Rolling Thunder/Fireball (I like Rolling Thunder better for it's simplicity)
    Kaervek's Torch
    Hammer of Bogardan
    Guerilla Tactics/Kindle
    Goblin Lore/Gamble (Goblin Lore is the red searcher from Portal 2, would be really fun with Squee!)
    Mogg Flunkies
    Sonic Burst
    Furious Assault (great in multiplayer)
    ... I can't think up any weenies that need to be in the core set other than Jackal Pup and I don't think I'd really like seeing him again...

    So far what they have is good. I'd have put a LOT more fat into 6th, and some color hosers because all the other sets got one for each of it's oppositional colors. I can't say I wouldn't happy if they put Rancor in, but I don't believe that it would seriously imbalance the core set with a spell like that and not for the other colors. I like to think of Rancor as the fixed version of Berserk.

    Giant Growth
    Wild Growth
    Lanowar Elves
    Lanowar Sentinel
    Worldly Tutor
    Yavimaya Wurm/Rootbreaker Wurm
    Skyshroud Elite

    all the Diamonds ("Fixed" Classic)
    Mox Diamond ("Fixed" Classic, a Mox needs to be in a set called Classic)
    Lotus "Something," Petal preferably (A set called Classic needs a Lotus dammit!)
    Soldevi Sentry
    Aeolipile (one shot colorless direct damage, not BROKEN like Cursed Scroll or anything, although I do really like Cursed Scroll)
    Some good Golems
    Yotian Soldier (Come on, it's great!)

    I can't think of any more stuff right now, I'll update later. Keep writing your opinions please.

    [Edited by Dune Echo (01-12-2000 at 08:17 AM).]
  6. Ferret CPA Founder, Slacker

    I like the idea of a people's choice set - But I doubt WotC would come to the common player to ask what they'd like...it would be more like going to ask everyone whose won a Pro Tour or been to their precious "Invitationals"...


    "...they have to spoil their posterchildren..."
  7. Ihsans Shade Blind god of all he sees

    Too true Ferret, all too true. Nice idea though.

    Here is some of what I'd like to see again:

    Serra Angel

    Not sure

    Lord of the Pit
    Dark Ritual

    Shivy boy

    More big creatures

    It's my opion.
    Ihsan's Shade
  8. Killer Joe Active Member

    Alright, I'd like to see:

    -Winter Orb
    -Bottle Gnomes

    -Diabolic Edict
    -Black Knight

    -Mana Leak
    -Tradewind Rider

    -Wall of Blossoms
    -Stampeeding Wildebeests
    -Senior Stompy Himself -Rogue Elephant
    -Gaea's Blessing

    -Lightning Bolt

    -Gerrard's Wisdom
    -White Knight

    -Undiscovered Paradise
    -Gemstone Mine
    -Reflecting Pool
    -Tempests' two-colored Sleeping/Pain Lands.

    No more rule changes though, I hate the thought that I'd have to have drawn a basic creature just to play my opening hand........are ya following me?..........huh? I hope they never connect MTG to POKEMON LIKE THAT!!!!!

    .....I'm cool.......I'm alright........this is Yellowjacket.
  9. Zadok001 CPA Founder, Greater Good

    Aw, they are balanced!

    Compare to Albino Troll, Pouncing Jaguar, Carnophage, and the other beatdown creatures of the past year. They're good, but not too good...

    And Gaea's Blessing! Haha! Bring back sick millstone decks... :)
  10. Killer Joe Active Member

    How about the "Peoples Edition". WotC could have a contest or whatever and just like they used to pick the all-star players for baseball (do they still do that?) but do it for M:TG. The only difference could be that all cards, not a pre-chosen list, could be considered. Forget whether they're tourney legal or not -CPA ;^)- we could have our game back. Make the original power nine next to impossible to get (that is, if they were chosen) but make the others in normal rarity. Borders? They could be pink for all I care, yeah, sure, make them as black and thick as Beta. Who should care, we'll get our cards that we liked/love and have a second chance at getting them (I missed my opportunity, I started during Visions).


    We could shift our paradigm to fit what they dish out. I like Magic no matter how much Good/Bad cards they toss at us.

    Which do you think is more likely to happen?

  11. Killer Joe Active Member

    I'm posting just to see if this thread will go to the top of the list.

    This is Yellowjacket
  12. Quill New Member

    Nobody has mentioned Killer Bees. I missed out on fourth edition and I'd love to see green get a cool flier like that in seventh
  13. Ferret CPA Founder, Slacker

    I don't think Green's going to get anything cheap and/or powerful in the air again. At one time they had the cheapest flier (Scryb Sprites) and some other nice ones, but WotC felt they were "out of flavour" and all of a sudden all faerie cards are blue, and green has less fliers - but more big, cheap creatures (that don't have trample - makes you wonder why we even bother) in VIth Edition.


    "...of course, there's still Giant Caterpillar..."
  14. theorgg Slob

    I will put one card from each color/colorless group to voice my opinion.

    Gemstone Mine( fairly balanced, should replace city of brass due to being less powerful)

    Ælopile(usable direct damage, destroys need for dd artifacts in expantions that may be broken.)

    Artifact creature:
    Soldevi Sentry(nice, balanced creature.)

    Cataclysim(wrath and geddon are just TOO powerful in limited. cataclysim is only good against bad players in limited. much better than taking up two rare slots.)

    pestilence rats(not powerful, but great to entice new players, just change the art to somthing a little less... flilthy looking)

    Elvish Spirit Guide(it just needs to be.)

    If not me, goblin swine riders(very good. usually won't be blocked.)

    coral merfolk instead of voldelian warriors. or mabe sea troll. gotta weaken the best color...
  15. Gumby Khan New Member

    Here is my list of long lost loves;

    Land: Rainbow Vale (great in Multiplayer)

    Artifact: Ashnod's Transmogrant (always loved this, too many uses to list!)

    Artifact Creature: Clockwork Avian (or any other clockwork creature. With the new rules, you can pump him up before damage is dealt and stun your opponent)

    White: Savanah Lions (ah, to give white weenie some teeth!)

    Black: Armor Thrull (talk about useful!)

    Blue: Portent (don't like any creatures in blue)

    Green: Yavimaya Gnats (green's answer to Will-o-wisps)

    Red: Charmander! Uh, I mean Dragon Whelp(poor man's Shivan!)

    Those are my nominees, and if I had to pick only one, it would be Ashnod's Transmogrant. Way too cool for 1cc;
    "What? You terror my Thorn Elemental? In response I tap/sac Ashnod's Trans and make it +1/+1 AND an artifact creature. Your terror fizzles and now you're taking 8!"

    "One person's trash is another one's treasure."
  16. Caveman Guest


    I've been thinking about what Artifacts I'd
    like to see in 7th Edition. Its kind of hard
    to think of cards that would be good for;
    Sealed, Type II and Casual but here's the
    five Commons, Uncommons and Rares I came up
    with. I think these 15 cards are fairly
    balanced and wouldn't be to bad in a Sealed
    environment. I'm only doing these 15 because
    I haven't got the time to complete an in
    depth spoiler!


    Mind Stone
    Feldon's Cane
    Coiled Tinviper
    Serrated Arrows
    Phyrexian War Beast


    Fellwar Stone
    Bottle Gnomes
    Phyrexian Furnace
    Mindless Automaton (has to be changed from
    Rare to Uncommon but its been done before)


    Mana Web
    Scroll Rack
    Jester's Cap
    Soldevi Digger
    Illusionary Mask

    This is directed at WoTC; I would probably
    buy some 7th Edition "if" you offer us the
    chance to pull a random Black Border copy of
    each card. Something similar to what you've
    done with "foils" That would sale more of
    your produce, make players happy and give
    retailers increased sales.

    Bob Pittman
    e.g. Caveman
  17. Caveman Guest

    I'm back.

    Here is my suggestions for what Green cards
    to put into 7th Edition. Before I start, I
    must say, I'd love to see Rancor in the basic
    set but I doubt if that can happen. Because
    its one of those Enchantments that return
    to your hand so, WoTC will probably not bring
    it back in any basic addition. I don't think
    we'll see cards with these abilities in a
    basic set either: Pitch cards, Protection from, Banding, First Strike, Echo or Spikes.
    So I will leave these type's of cards out of
    all my suggestions.


    River Boa
    Giant Growth
    Brair Shield
    Rogue Elephant
    Quirion Ranger (Elvish Lyrist)?


    Creeping Mold
    Gaea's Blessing
    Uktabi Orangutan
    Emperor Crocodile ( Would have to be changed
    from a Rare to Uncommon. Erhnam Djinn was a
    Rare so its no big deal.)


    Singing Tree
    Sylvan Library
    Birds of Paradise
    Survival of the Fittest

    To WoTc: I believe all of these choice's fit
    within the theme of Green. If its possible
    please bring Rancor back. I my opinion its
    one of the base commons "ever" printed.

    Bob Pittman
    A.K.A. Caveman
  18. Chaos Turtle Demiurgic CPA Member, Admin Assistant

    Good ideas, all.
    Some comments:
    I'm all for the return of Serra Angel, but Savannah Lions is undercosted.
    Dark Ritual maybe, but as long as it's in the standalones, what difference does it make? How about the one (Song of the Dead?) that gave mana equal to creatures in graveyard? That would be pretty cool, in a messed-up kinda way.
    Arcane Denial in Blue, or Dissipate, or both. Mahamoti? I dunno...
    Where is Erhnam Djinn? Is he really all that powerful? I guess so, but he's one of my favorites.
    Mox Diamond, for sure.
    Bottle Gnomes, Impulse, Gaea's Blessing, White Knight, I could go on forever...
    Gotta vote against clone cards though, they make my head hurt.

    --The Chaos Turtle
  19. Mordecai New Member

    I'm rather bummed that there were no Dwarves in 6th Edition. Was Dwarven Warriors that broken? And since 5th, the best Dwarves yet had been printed: Dwarven Miner, Dwarven Vigilantes, Dwarven Berserker. I think WotC is trying to kill off the Dwarven species. I feel betrayed...

    Mordecai the Destroyer
    A Dwarf's Best Friend
  20. Mordecai New Member

    ummm...as to 7th (which my last post failed to address), I'd put the Dwarven Berserker and Dwarven Vigilantes in. I'd also bring back Swords to Plowshares. And Soul Warden.

    As far as stuff that's actually still eligible for 7th Ed. (stuff since Urza's Saga), I'd say Mother of Runes, Wall of Glare, Capashen Knight (sorry, I have little experience with non-white stuff), and Impending Disaster.

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